Oh yeah, good point, Grandma. A new bunch of Blur songs (if not an entire album) is looking pretty likely, especially with the Brit thing coming up. Oh well, it was nice to believe the rumour for a few hours!
Morrissey and Stephen Street re-collaborating? All of the rumours...
- Thread starter Maurice E
- Start date
Oh yeah, good point, Grandma. A new bunch of Blur songs (if not an entire album) is looking pretty likely, especially with the Brit thing coming up. Oh well, it was nice to believe the rumour for a few hours!
Worm
Taste the diffidence
First, I question the validity of any list which has "Last Night I Dreamt" in its top five. Good song, but better than "Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now", "The Boy With The Thorn In His Side", or "Shoplifters of the World Unite?" Better than "The More You Ignore Me"?
But! Granting that these are, indeed, the five most beloved Morrissey singles, I would just counter by pointing out that in a Marr v. Street contest, the next, say, 30 songs would be dominated by Marr. Street had about half a dozen glorious tunes that were as good as anything Marr wrote. His filler album tracks and B-sides are mostly pretty average-sounding. Whereas even the least-enjoyable album filler or B-side composed by Marr is still mostly outstanding. The fourth-best track on "The Queen Is Dead" easily trumps the fourth-best on "Viva Hate". So, yes, I think he is a poor man's Marr. A couple of gems, some passably decent stuff, and the rest is unremarkable.
Street was Morrissey's second-best producer, though (behind Mick Ronson). I'll give Street enormous credit there. With Street providing decent songs, bringing in the the most accomplished guitarist of Morrissey's solo career, and upgrading the results in the studio, he practically was Johnny Marr, at least for an album and a half. He could have kept The Smiths' formula going for awhile, which part of me wishes had actually happened. I think of songs like "Lucky Lisp", which to my ears is below-average backing music transformed by Street into one of the highlights of Morrissey's career. Street knew how to polish a tur...turrriffic demo.
Last edited:
Worm
Taste the diffidence
It's not a crazy question. The Smiths did take a giant leap forward when Street came aboard to join the producing team of Morrissey and Marr. I mean, realistically, by all accounts, he was just an understudy learning the ropes while Johnny performed his feats of magic. Still, you're right. It's tempting to wonder how much of an influence Street really had.
King Leer
Leering since '97
I was just going to write that some of Jesse's tracks given the Street treatment could work quite well. His Ringleader tracks were not slated nearly as much as his Years contributions. I think Jesse and Jerry (RIP) together was like deep-fried Mars Bars or something. Finn did some fine work on other Alain and Boz tracks.
Worm
Taste the diffidence
Yes, I agree completely.
The jig was up with "Southpaw Grammar". I knew from the moment I saw the sleeve for "Dagenham Dave", and especially when I saw the Times New Roman font on "Southpaw Grammar". Dead giveaways. Morrissey was-- intentionally or not is the question, but I think intentionally-- stripping down the music, presenting it without fuss, and undomesticating his own carefully-crafted public persona. After that, there weren't as many songs produced with the sophistication, depth, and care as those under the Street/Langer-Winstanley/Lillywhite regimes (Ronson is the exception, because he knew how to turn coal into diamonds). The post-1994 material wasn't exactly The Ramones or Sham 69. Lots of it was still slathered with pretty production. But I don't think the producers had as much sway in the studio, with Morrissey opting for a live, rockist quality to his songs. The difference between "The Last of The Famous International Playboys" and "Irish Blood, English Heart" is subtle but significant. From the song to the sleeve to the video to the general figure he cut, the 1989 incarnation of Morrissey was vastly different than the 2004 version, and it wasn't just age. If anything, the latter Morrissey seemed younger; it's the difference between Oscar Wilde taking tea in Tite Street and Jean Genet knocking about with the rough boys in the drunk tank.
Orson Swells
Well-Known Member
I think Street did good work with Morrissey which was underrated at the time. Perhaps half a dozen solid gold classics. There were signs that things were already beginning to tail off. Ouija Board and Journalists being the last two recorded Street offerings although he didn't produce them. People Are The Same may not be a classic, but it is as good as some Street compositions.
Does Street even write music anymore? Has he written many tracks with anybody since? I don't know, but my feeling is Viva Hate and the subsequent singles were perhaps a one off moment which Streetie was right for - but he didn't have any longevity as a songwriter. His production then and since, as evinced by his Blur output, for example, is pretty much always exemplary.
Personally, I would rather have Alain back as a writer. But the idea of Street back producing Morrissey again (especially with Alain on board too) would be a genuinely interesting and exciting one.
Well, it's a better song than all of them - though not a better single. Best of lists are always skewed, often towards the more famous songs...
It's an interesting generalisation that feels generally just about true. But I think there are a lot of exceptions to the rule too. For me, Quarry felt like a massive step back up from the murk of Maladjusted and Southpaw in terms of just about everything. There's more nuance and light and shade on there than either of those albums.
As for Street coming back, I'd be all for it, but I'm not sure if Morrissey wants to jingle and jangle anymore.
Last edited:
This was most likely to discuss the content of the unreleased material regarding the Bona Drag reissue, along with the planned Viva Hate remaster. The Wolverhampton gig was rumored to be included as a bonus DVD but it was scrapped after Morrissey's disappointment in the lack of sales of the reissues.
This is Kristeen Young. Or, if we're really grasping, perhaps Alain Whyte?
Boz was dumbfounded that people thought 2/3 of his new batch could have been Street compositions.
This could be anybody!
Morrissey is extremely pleased with his latest releases and continues to move forward. Why would a 1988 reunion interest him, musically?
Last edited:
D
DAVIE
Guest
Well, I was talking about Vini....He claims he wrote most of The Smiths back catalogue (What back catalogue? B-Sides? Previous Unreleased Tracks???). Though I really haven't heard of Vini doing anything with The Smiths, but he says that he had joined them on sessions and stuff. I wouldn't think he'd say it for publicity as he's not interested being in the media. Maybe Street and Vini did help with some of The Smiths songs. God Knows.
Raphael Lambach
Well-Known Member
It must be something to do with the re-release of Suedehead.
Worm
Taste the diffidence
Oh, you meant Vini Reilly? My God, no, I don't think he was involved with The Smiths at all. He was too busy playing The Hacienda to a crowd of three.
Yes, some of the rumours are clutching at straws. But the fact that his relationship ended with Street acrimoniously (and seemingly permanently) 20 years ago but they recently met up again on good terms is pretty significant.
Anyway, in response to your comments above:
Morrissey may be extremely pleased with his latest releases but I'm afraid we, the fans, are not. Ringleader and YOR were voted among his worst ever albums by the biggest fan poll ever (10th and 11th out of 13). That's not my personal opinion, by the way. I think YOR deserves to be higher.
The wider record-buying public has not been impressed. Quarry sold 400,000, ROTT 200,000 and YOR 88,000.
The music industry is not impressed, and has little faith in his new material. He can easily get a low-budget record deal but he feels he deserves the kind of deal a 400,000 artist would attract.
So Morrissey's in a record deal stalemate, which is one of the reasons why a reunion with an extremely gifted songwriter (assuming Marr, Street or whoever has some great tunes up their sleeve) might interest him quite considerably, if it saves him from the humiliation of only being able to release an album on a tin-pot label.
I don't think they are amongst his best either, but apparently he does. I just don't think Morrissey feels a reunion with any collaborator pre-1992 is necessary for where is he and what he is right now. I think his attitude is something like, "I've achieved a lot since those times and am quite proud of where I am...why should I go back to Marr, Street, etc.?" He also does have a bit of loyalty to Boz and the band as well.
We do know that he doesn't shy away from collaborating and working with new people. We've seen this with Jesse, Mikey, Morricone, Kristeen, and even Jeff Beck. If he does decide to work with someone other than his select few, I'm sure it will be someone entirely new.
Last edited:
Yeah, fair points (and it is encouraging that he's worked with new songwriters/musicians relatively recently). However, Morrissey can't now just do as he feels. Coz what he feels like doing is presenting a bunch of Tobias/Boorer co-writes to a major record label and being told, "yep, we can shift 400,000 copies of an album of the quality, here's a suitably generous deal". He either accepts a basic deal with a minor label or he goes away and writes some much better songs. Being extremely pleased, perosnally, with his recent stuff and new songs isn't enough.
Similar threads
