Mike Joyce on Smiths royalties
- Thread starter vicarinatutugal
- Start date
Well, it's quite a simple equation if the reported 10% / 25% discrepency is true. £50,000 x 10 = £500,000. With a reputed 40% stake in performance royalties, Morrissey and Marr would have recieved £200,000 in 1986. I said previously that Moz and Marr was responsible for the day to day running (administration of band expenses, hiring of roadcrew, sacking of band members / roadcrew, dealing with lawyers / accountants etc) of the band, plus the bands projected future ie - where to tour, when to tour, recording of next album, etc, so maybe that's why M&M feel they were not equal partners in the band - writing royalties all aside (Rourke and Joyce have no claim to this). To use a crass analogy, you would expect a MD of Barclays bank to earn more than a bank cashier, despite being part of the same company.
£50,000 a year is still a lot of money these days too.
Jukebox Jury
Retired
You are correct in that sum - but that is based on performance royalties only. Why should M&M receive more for performance royalties when all four (or five with Craig Gannon) all performed? That is the crux of the case - performing.
Obviously M&M received more on top for song writing royalties and should also be entitled to more if they were 'managing the band' as you said (though assuming that was more Marr than Morrissey, seems Morrissey was good at firing but not hiring!) and that money should come out of whatever budget it would have come out of had The Smiths had a proper manager (which they didn't because Morrissey didn't want one / kept firing them!)
So after all the percentages of 'managing fees' are taken out, Mike (and Andy) were entitled to 25% of performing rights. Or 20% with Craig Gannon unless his contract was a set fee per tour / gig whatever.
Jukebox Jury
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Jones
Senior Member
I'm amazed how many people seem to think that all there is to being in a band is to show up to gigs and sit in the studio for a few hours.
If that was all the members of the Smiths did then I'd say 25% each was a fair split. But that isn't all that is required and it is well documented that all the other tasks were carried out by Morrissey and Marr. Presumably this was an arrangement between the band that suited them all at the time. Rourke and Joyce got paid a good wage for just doing all the fun bits while Morrissey and Marr had to deal with all the shit.
If that was all the members of the Smiths did then I'd say 25% each was a fair split. But that isn't all that is required and it is well documented that all the other tasks were carried out by Morrissey and Marr. Presumably this was an arrangement between the band that suited them all at the time. Rourke and Joyce got paid a good wage for just doing all the fun bits while Morrissey and Marr had to deal with all the shit.
Jukebox Jury
Retired
Well done - you said five words that cost Morrissey and Marr dearly.
''Presumably this was an arrangement''.
Everyone ''presumed'' this, that and the other. Nothing was ever written down in writing so neither party had concrete evidence. The judge - indeed two judges - both came to the same conclusion......
Jukebox Jury
Well, that's not strictly true, as it was a verbal agreement, not just a presumption, rather than a written one. Marr has himself said that Morrissey threaten to quit the band, if this 40-40-10-10% was not the agreed percentage split, at the start.
Morrissey's has every right to contest the judge's decision, so back to the original point of it being more financially beneficial if he didn't, that's not really the point is it? If he felt that he has been wronged on what was a clear verbal agreement, then why should he pay up?
Jukebox Jury
Retired
OK, my point about paying up at the first time is based on the practicalities of law rather than principles. Yes we should have principles, but against the law if you disagree it just costs you more money - a hell of a lot more money - and the only winners are the lawyers who on both sides get paid whoever wins or loses.
As I said in my original post - Morrissey fought the law - and the law won.
Jukebox Jury
MadameChaos
you should see mine
Mike was very short sighted to do this, think of the millions he could have made from a Smiths reunion. There's no way that will ever happen now. Talk about killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. Just goes to show what a thick c*** he is really.
chica
v2.0
If Joyce willingly received 10% for years, why can't it be proven that he consented to those terms?
CrystalGeezer
My secret's my enzyme.
Why did the judge call him truculent? Did he testify?
bhops
Last of the famous international screw ups.
Jukebox Jury,
I post under the Artful Roger on the main page so it was me that was at the court case.
I believe M&M paid themselves 250,000 pounds each in 1986 but it was definately 200 grand plus.
As I remember the money to all members got paid out of a company run by Moz and Marr.
This came out during the accountants testimony. Now to be honest I'm not sure how the amounts were concluded upon.
I think one of the lawyers asked him to speculate on how much he believed Marr and Morrisssey had made in royalties from Smiths songs (up to that point in 1996) and I think THINK he estimated it to be 2-3 million quid each (which I thought was quite low but having seen record sales for Smiths albums posted here may not be far off).
At this Johnny kinda snorted and mumbled leading me to believe he thought the figure was kinda high. Again I can't be completely sure of the numbers but it was something around that.
To be honest it is why I've hesitated to post about this experience before, because I understand that time warps the memory a little (probably like the conversations between members of The Smiths) and I am loathed to state something is fact when it may be my memory playing tricks on me, so that's why I must qualify these musings a little.
I post under the Artful Roger on the main page so it was me that was at the court case.
I believe M&M paid themselves 250,000 pounds each in 1986 but it was definately 200 grand plus.
As I remember the money to all members got paid out of a company run by Moz and Marr.
This came out during the accountants testimony. Now to be honest I'm not sure how the amounts were concluded upon.
I think one of the lawyers asked him to speculate on how much he believed Marr and Morrisssey had made in royalties from Smiths songs (up to that point in 1996) and I think THINK he estimated it to be 2-3 million quid each (which I thought was quite low but having seen record sales for Smiths albums posted here may not be far off).
At this Johnny kinda snorted and mumbled leading me to believe he thought the figure was kinda high. Again I can't be completely sure of the numbers but it was something around that.
To be honest it is why I've hesitated to post about this experience before, because I understand that time warps the memory a little (probably like the conversations between members of The Smiths) and I am loathed to state something is fact when it may be my memory playing tricks on me, so that's why I must qualify these musings a little.
Paris Hilton
Completely Loser
Mike Joyce comes to this site because in his mind it's better to be hated than forgotten, but he's pissing all over the legacy of the music he says he cares so much about. I'm glad Stoner Kebab's gonna keep her eye on him.
MadameChaos
you should see mine
Did you know that Mike's name is an anagram of "Icy Joke Me", how very apt.
Stoner Kebab
New Member
Stoner Kebab
New Member
Maybe because Ringo was paid what he was due at the end of every month and therefore has no reason to take issue with other band members. I do not hear the drummer from a thousand other bands complaining either, sorry, I find your comparison irrelevant.
This has to be one of the most embarressing threads ever posted
Jukebox Jury
dude. you. drive. a. bus.
Paris Hilton
Completely Loser
He put me on ignore, you know. I guess that means that when I get on his bus my Oyster card won't get charged?
Baby you can drive my bus
Please don't try and make a fuss
Baby you can drive my bus
And maybe I'll poo in your cocaine
beep beep beep beep, yeah
MadameChaos
you should see mine
AH yes, one of the lesser know Beatles songs.
Stoner Kebab
New Member
you just pissed me off jj and im gonna be a total asshole now.
im pmsing, im over worked and im not in a great mood.
i understand that you have a close personal friendship with mike and thats really cool but im entitled to my opinion and that opinion is that he's a braindead cokehead with no life.
its not like im some kind of yay yay pom pom pro steve kind of fruitloop. i call it like i see it. its f***ed up that all their private business dealings are being aired out for all of US to see and be unneccessarily concerned about. and, im saying that your braindead LOSER buddy is the one who is being manipulative and shitty with his totally f***ed up i dont have a publicist so im gonna do this low budget via m-solo, star and garter, northern moz mafia bs. press junkets. it sucks and he sucks and he's always gonnna be a loser and IM awesome and beautiful and THIN. so eat me!! la la la la.
im pmsing, im over worked and im not in a great mood.
i understand that you have a close personal friendship with mike and thats really cool but im entitled to my opinion and that opinion is that he's a braindead cokehead with no life.
its not like im some kind of yay yay pom pom pro steve kind of fruitloop. i call it like i see it. its f***ed up that all their private business dealings are being aired out for all of US to see and be unneccessarily concerned about. and, im saying that your braindead LOSER buddy is the one who is being manipulative and shitty with his totally f***ed up i dont have a publicist so im gonna do this low budget via m-solo, star and garter, northern moz mafia bs. press junkets. it sucks and he sucks and he's always gonnna be a loser and IM awesome and beautiful and THIN. so eat me!! la la la la.
Stoner Kebab
New Member
PARIS LETS GO TO BARNEYS BITCH!!!!
60 percent offf whoooooooooo!
60 percent offf whoooooooooo!
MadameChaos
you should see mine
Found another anagram, "coke jim ye"
