It’s not about politics

Or what about Roger Waters? With his stance on Israel, I think we can safely say: definitely not. Morrissey would burn his copy of Dark Side of the Moon in protest, but he doesn't own one. Anne Marie Waters on the other hand: pro-Israel like Morrissey.
 
Or what about Roger Waters? With his stance on Israel, I think we can safely say: definitely not. Morrissey would burn his copy of Dark Side of the Moon in protest, but he doesn't own one. Anne Marie Waters on the other hand: pro-Israel like Morrissey.

But not pro-war, I would think.
 
Pro-Israel = pro-war.

and what about the people in Israel, Palestine, or wherever, that are against war?

What I’m saying is, Morrissey may not want to take a place with the human race, but he does seem to be on the side of the people, and not the government. You should know this.
 
and what about the people in Israel, Palestine, or wherever, that are against war?

What I’m saying is, Morrissey may not want to take a place with the human race, but he does seem to be on the side of the people, and not the government. You should know this.

He's explicitly said he's not pro the Israeli government.

And he's always against war.

It's fine if he likes some of the good people who happen to live in a country that sustains itself by warring, occupation, encroachment, and brusque checkpoints (not things he's ever been known to like). In that case, the song should've been called My nice Israeli friends.

The song is specifically about the nation, which is confusing, because we tend to judge a nation on its behavior, and what its armies do. I don't blame anyone for hating my own country for those reasons. A song about the United States shouldn't have the line "love yourself | as you should" because the U.S. has a lot to be ashamed of. America is not the world is more like it. But he won't apply that to Israel. Given current events, he might want to offer a clarification or whatever his reasoning is in a "thoughts on 2023" video or blog post on his Messages page, but something tells me no.
 
Thought exercise: imagine that the U.S. armed forces, led by a Republican president and congress, began military operations in Mexico, with the justification that they needed to take out the big bad drug cartels. Even if the strikes were 99% tactically surgical, imagine a dozen innocent Mexican civilians died accidentally as a result. Would Morrissey be as silent on that as he's been on Israel/Gaza?
 
It's fine if he likes some of the good people who happen to live in a country that sustains itself by warring,

But that goes for most countries at some point in time, whose hands are clean? Anyway, ‘politics’ = blah, blah, blah, I think you get my point when I say that I believe he’s for people, not government.


occupation, encroachment, and brusque checkpoints (not things he's ever been known to like). In that case, the song should've been called My nice Israeli friends.

The song is specifically about the nation, which is confusing, because we tend to judge a nation on its behavior, and what its armies do. I don't blame anyone for hating my own country for those reasons. A song about the United States shouldn't have the line "love yourself | as you should" because the U.S. has a lot to be ashamed of. America is not the world is more like it. But he won't apply that to Israel. Given current events, he might want to offer a clarification or whatever his reasoning is in a "thoughts on 2023" video or blog post on his Messages page, but something tells me no.
 
But that goes for most countries at some point in time, whose hands are clean? Anyway, ‘politics’ = blah, blah, blah, I think you get my point when I say that I believe he’s for people, not government.

Of course. But what I'm saying is, he has a double standard. He likes American culture way more than he does Israeli culture. I mean, Israel sure didn't have Elvis, James Dean, Lou Reed, the New York Dolls, Patti Smith, &c. He's even lived here (and still does, if the rumors of him living out of the Sunset Marquis are true). He has American friends. Nancy Sinatra and Jesse Tobias are American. But he often judges America by its government. He's always been critical of "the American way displayed proudly" in foreign policy (and rightly so). He doesn't however do that for Israel. Why won't he? He's called George W. Bush a war criminal; why not Netanyahu? Even if he separates the government from the people, he seems to be some kind of Zionist. His silence on Israel committing a textbook definition of genocide is bizarre—and in my view, to his shame.
 
I don't know. Maybe he feels welcome in Israel. Israelis have a tendency to be welcoming of humasexuals. Palestinians: not so much. If it's that big of a problem that your favourite rock star doesn't hate Israel, maybe go listen to Olly Alexander or something.

There's lots of people he's not calling war criminals. Why is it only an issue when it's about Israel?
 
The pro-Israeli far right are supporting Israel - so I expect Aubs wants him to be a barking mad ethno-state ultra-Zionist.

But, he's not.

The people were nice to him. He's against their government & the army. The song is more Catholic than anything else - it is the Holy land. And he's condemned America's foreign policy in the middle-east before. Israel couldn't kill without American backing.

It's a delicate situation in LA & there's a lot of protests - so I think it's best if he stays out of it.
 
I don't know. Maybe he feels welcome in Israel. Israelis have a tendency to be welcoming of humasexuals. Palestinians: not so much. If it's that big of a problem that your favourite rock star doesn't hate Israel, maybe go listen to Olly Alexander or something.

There's lots of people he's not calling war criminals. Why is it only an issue when it's about Israel?

The genocides of dictators in rinky-dink countries are bad too, but I suppose he'd be more interested in Israel because of his welcoming friends there. Not to mention the British colonial legacy, America's grotesque backing of Israel with money and materiel, and if nothing else simply because this particular genocide is big in the news.

True, Palestinians aren't that high on humasexual rights, but does that somehow make it okay to bounce the rubble there? Gaza is 47% children.
 
The pro-Israeli far right are supporting Israel - so I expect Aubs wants him to be a barking mad ethno-state ultra-Zionist.

Why would I want him to be an ultra-Zionist? I've already said he's disappointed me by being mildly Zionist. Ah, I should've remembered: I'm a "racist astroturfer" on here, trying to claim Morrissey for the Anne Marie Waters faction. You figured it out, Nancy Drew!

The people were nice to him. He's against their government & the army. The song is more Catholic than anything else - it is the Holy land.

First you were saying it was about sex, now it's "more Catholic than anything else?" Make up your mind, please. What is Catholic about "the sky is dark for many others | they want it dark for you as well"? He could've taken a second to realize the dark skies over the Palestinian territories are the Israeli occupation, but who knows, maybe he was distracted by a dyed-blond Sephardi in a Tel Aviv nightclub.

And he's condemned America's foreign policy in the middle-east before. Israel couldn't kill without American backing.

"I can't answer for what armies do | they are not you," when Israel has conscription: the people are the armies.
 
Of course. But what I'm saying is, he has a double standard. He likes American culture way more than he does Israeli culture. I mean, Israel sure didn't have Elvis, James Dean, Lou Reed, the New York Dolls, Patti Smith, &c. He's even lived here (and still does, if the rumors of him living out of the Sunset Marquis are true). He has American friends. Nancy Sinatra and Jesse Tobias are American. But he often judges America by its government. He's always been critical of "the American way displayed proudly" in foreign policy (and rightly so). He doesn't however do that for Israel. Why won't he?

Because it’s low hanging fruit. It’s easier to see
what’s wrong with America. Lol. Maybe also, he’s loved, lived in, and observed America long enough that he feels he knows enough or has a right to criticize it.

He's called George W. Bush a war criminal; why not Netanyahu? Even if he separates the government from the people, he seems to be some kind of Zionist. His silence on Israel committing a textbook definition of genocide is bizarre—and in my view, to his shame.

did he speak out at the start of the
Russo-Ukrainian war? Don’t know why it’s so important to you or for anyone that he speaks out about any war, he’s not a politician. If he does speak out, he does. It’s not going to change shit anywhere. In the same way, people’s posts here will not be stopping any wars.

Oh yeah, soooo shameful. Don’t know how he even sleeps. :rolleyes:
 
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did he speak out at the start of the
Russo-Ukrainian war? Don’t know why it’s so important to you or for anyone that he speaks out about any war, he’s not a politician. If he does speak out, he does. It’s not going to change shit anywhere. In the same way, people’s posts here will not be stopping any wars.

I’d expect him to say something about Ukraine if Low in High School had contained a song in praise of Vladimir Putin. Of course it’s not going to change the outcome of anything, but if you’ve written an uncritical ode to a “dodgy” nation, you might want to rethink and publicly modify your stance when they start committing outright ethnic cleansing. It’s the moral thing to do in my opinion (his obviously differs).

Oh yeah, soooo shameful. Don’t know how he even sleeps. :rolleyes:

He’s a brilliant artist and I owe him a lot; he owes nothing to me personally or any of his fans. I’ve defended him many times on his unapologized-for concert cancellations. “And yet here I am”—great line, and I hope he really said it. But if people want to see that behavior as shameful or a “dick move,” I don’t think they’re being totally unreasonable. I can be disappointed in him on the much more consequential subject of Israel without thinking he’s reading this—or that if he was, my disappointment would matter to him. I’m just commenting on Morrissey on a Morrissey forum.
 
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Of course. But what I'm saying is, he has a double standard. He likes American culture way more than he does Israeli culture. I mean, Israel sure didn't have Elvis, James Dean, Lou Reed, the New York Dolls, Patti Smith, &c. He's even lived here (and still does, if the rumors of him living out of the Sunset Marquis are true). He has American friends. Nancy Sinatra and Jesse Tobias are American. But he often judges America by its government. He's always been critical of "the American way displayed proudly" in foreign policy (and rightly so). He doesn't however do that for Israel. Why won't he? He's called George W. Bush a war criminal; why not Netanyahu? Even if he separates the government from the people, he seems to be some kind of Zionist. His silence on Israel committing a textbook definition of genocide is bizarre—and in my view, to his shame.

I thought Nerak said Morrissey supported Waters for her views on vegetarianism, yet here she's actually calling Waters a racist.
She's been absolutely consistent in these two non-mutually-exclusive positions.
Or what about Roger Waters? With his stance on Israel, I think we can safely say: definitely not. Morrissey would burn his copy of Dark Side of the Moon in protest, but he doesn't own one. Anne Marie Waters on the other hand: pro-Israel like Morrissey.
To be pro-Israel doesn't mean being anti-Palestinian, and it's not very clear all Jews sure ain't alike. Primal drives are apparently as active as they were when folk lived in caves; only now the technology is thousands of times more lethal.

He's always been critical of "the American way displayed proudly" in foreign policy (and rightly so). He doesn't however do that for Israel. Why won't he?...
From the same song, presumably about residents of Tel Aviv, and not exactly edifying either:

Humble homes
With mottoes on the walls
Symbols and signs in framed designs
Sure to keep to poor poor

In fear of a god, who hadn't saved them after all.

With Rwandan pressures, over 6 million people were displaced last year, and since 1994, the same number killed in serial wars, in the Democratic Republic of Congo 😿

Something potentially significant took place a few days ago elsewhere in Africa: first, leaders and crowds celebrated the recent full withdrawal of French troops from Niger; and the day after, a pact between the prime ministers of Niger, Burkina Faso and Mali who affirmed their commitment to a shared future under an alliance that has seen the three junta-led countries distance themselves from the larger West African political bloc since their coups.
- https://www.reuters.com/world/afric...-rally-thousands-support-alliance-2023-12-30/


America [or Israel] is not the world 🌎🌍🌏 💫✨🐣
 

The mayor of this once great city has used the new year’s fireworks to kick off his reelection campaign.
Absaloutely feckin outrageous.
It would be easy enough to kick him out, but the changing demographics make that a bit tricky as he’s popular with the newbies.

I know Morrissey is no fan of his, on that we very much agree.
 
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