It’s not about politics

[nicky wire's legs]

Have you read an Irish history book?

It's utter bollocks that we were all stable ethno-states until recently. We had non-stop wars including 2 world wars in the 20th Century. Borders have shifted, languages & religions have changed. Rioting about foreigners isn't new & it isn't justice.

get the f*** out of here, idiot!

 

[gashonthenail]

 

[gashonthenail]

One is protesting against people because they're immigrants & one is protesting against the police for targeting people because of their skin colour.

If the rioters were non-white you'd be singing their praises. But white working class rioters aren't high enough up the victim hierarchy for you.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

i dont know why people bother interacting with malarkey as if she has a valid intellectual opinion and doesnt just pull shit out of her ass. it only makes you people look stupid.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

what's with algerians and wanting to hurt children anyway?

Woman charged with murder of 12-year-old girl found stuffed in suitcase in Paris

A 24-year-old woman has been charged with murder, rape and torture after allegedly slitting the throat of a French schoolgirl and placing her defiled corpse inside a suitcase.

www.standard.co.uk

 

[nicky wire's legs]

sacrifice your children for multiculturalism or you're a bigot!!

 

[nicky wire's legs]

 

[Malarkey]

If the rioters were non-white you'd be singing their praises. But white working class rioters aren't high enough up the victim hierarchy for you.

Considering the amount of grisly billionaires & middle-class think tanks, pressure groups & media platforms that are involved in stirring up racial tensions that the working-class rioters will get the flack for - you've some nerve.

Working-class people should have solidarity with each other & protest about being exploited.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

Considering the amount of grisly billionaires & middle-class think tanks, pressure groups & media platforms that are involved in stirring up racial tensions that the working-class rioters will get the flack for - you've some nerve.

Working-class people should have solidarity with each other & protest about being exploited.

shit, you're cheesey

 

[goinghome]

You didn't answer the question, goinghome. In which of the countries of the Middle East would you prefer to live? Syria? Jordan? Saudi Arabia? Egypt? Iraq? Iran?
Especially if you were a woman or a gay man?
Or would you rather live in Israel? I know which one any sane person would choose.
It's an uncomfortable question to answer, I know. But an important one.

I don't like the confrontational 'answer the question' command. I feel as if I'm in a court of law facing a haranguing judge in one of the countries you suggest is intolerant, which makes me subsequently feel like Morrissey! You can do better, gashonthenail

Already conceded: the U.S. and Israel are pretty good when it comes to human rights for their own citizens. The point I think goinghome was making is whether a democratic country like the U.S. is good for other peoples. What good did my country do for the Vietnamese peasant in the 1970s who returned to his decimated village, his raped daughter, and his burned-out farm to find his water buffalo (essentially his livelihood) reduced to a bloody pulp by the American G.I.s who giggled when they used it for target practice? Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. Our "peace through power" thing has not been very good for many of the non-Americans to whom we're constantly trying to show our so-called American goodwill, as Morrissey frequently points out.

It's not going to work out well for Israel either (unless they can somehow just kill all the Palestinians). Otherwise they're only further radicalizing them, as well as their neighbors in the Middle East, who increasingly seem to hate the Israelis even more than they hate their own tyrants.

America has been able to blend the best of all countries, it being known as the melting pot, while it guards privileges, so onlookers sometimes get envious and also feel had. Israeli leadership is on record numerous times now for expressing Zionist genocidal goals. America is on record too, for admitting to full spectrum dominance aims and exploiting and maintaining conflicts happening elsewhere. The White House just established a new body to do something about domestic gun crime, with remarks made that gun ownership is harming Americans, but meanwhile clearing mass shipments of weapons for export to be used on other human beings. America is not the world, but it doesn't know it yet.

Interesting point about rights and democracy, which are not easy questions. I found some of the points made in this article helpful for understanding how human rights interpretations shifted, and why e.g.

In this complex situation, human rights are increasingly being openly rejected as a Western tool that serves to secure its own domination and to conceal policies serving its own self-interest. If you look back at the history of the human rights discourse since the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was made 75 years ago, you see that this suspicion does not come out of nowhere. In the decades immediately following the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, it was the colonised states that pushed the expansion and legalisation of human rights forward and were able to shape the discussion on human rights in the shadow of the Cold War. First and foremost, they championed collective rights, such as those expressed in the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, including the right to development or the right of peoples to self-determination. They hoped for a more just world in which post-colonial self-determination then seems possible for the first time.

With the failure of post-colonial and socialist projects and as European welfare states faded in the fog of neoliberal politics, a new reading of human rights gained in significance from the late 1970s in the Anglo-Saxon world and at the latest from 1989 in the West as a whole: completely sidelining social and economic rights and reducing human rights to individual rights and civil rights. “Individual human rights thus gain traction in a world,” says historian Stefan-Ludwig Hoffmann, “characterised by a crisis of the institutions of solidarity and by a new type of financial capitalism that widens the gap between rich and poor.” Human rights thus become the armoury of the free market economy and unbridled globalisation...

https://www.medico.de/en/the-rest-and-the-west-19277

 

[nicky wire's legs]

im rolling out a new feature where from now on, any time i see someone interacting with malarkey they get a thumbs down. just letting y'all know so that if you get a thumbs down from me you wont think it's anything personal!!

 

[goinghome]

shit, you're cheesey

but Malarkey's sharp as a knife!

 

[Born to Harangue]

It's utter bollocks that we were all stable ethno-states until recently.

Show me where I used the word “stable”. I hate that slipperiness. I said ethno-states were the norm until recently, and you change it to say it’s bollocks that we were all stable ethno-states until recently. So now you’re not denying that ethno-states were the norm, you’re denying that “stable” ethno-states were the norm, which wasn’t what was said. And you’re hoping no one will notice that you subtly shifted what was being spoken about. This makes me want to disregard everything else you’ve said. These tactics of yours, which you rarely get away with since people are constantly tearing holes in your arguments, impress goinghome for some reason .

Have you read an Irish history book?

Yes, we studied history for 13 years at school, then I went on to study it at university too where we took exams and wrote essays about the Flight of the Earls, for example. But that’s right, you’re questioning my knowledge of Irish history based on the lie that I said stable ethno-states were the norm until recently, so I suppose I could have just ignored this question entirely.

We had non-stop wars including 2 world wars in the 20th Century.

Wow, showing off your own tremendous historical knowledge here . Two world wars in the 20th century, you say ?! Do you even know the years when they began and ended because that will really blow me away.

but Malarkey's sharp as a knife!

Are you joking around and poking fun at her atrocious debating skills or is there something actually wrong with you?

EDIT: Never mind, you didn’t mention what type of knife she’s as sharp as, so I assume you were talking about a butter knife.

 

[Malarkey]

Show me where I used the word “stable”.

If the West is destabilised, then it is not stable.

The west is already destabilised

 

[gashonthenail]

Are you joking around and poking fun at her atrocious debating skills or is there something actually wrong with you?

 

[gashonthenail]

I don't like the confrontational 'answer the question' command. I feel as if I'm in a court of law facing a haranguing judge in one of the countries you suggest is intolerant, which makes me subsequently feel like Morrissey! You can do better, gashonthenail

If you read my post again you will notice that there was no 'answer the question' command contained in my post. There was merely an observation. I know the question (and the answer) is uncomfortable - by avoiding it you have made that doubly clear.

 

[Lucifer Sam]

I know the question (and the answer) is uncomfortable

I don’t think it’s an uncomfortable question. It seems to just be moving the goalposts. Why is this particular metric the only metric that matters? Does having a good record on gay and women’s rights relative to Shariah law somehow make it okay for a country to commit war crimes?

Statistically speaking it’s pretty nice being born a human citizen of the United States—does this absolve the U.S. from the fact you’re statistically damned to hell (quite literally) if you’re born an animal in its agricultural sector?

 

[Redacted]

One is protesting against people because they're immigrants & one is protesting against the police for targeting people because of their skin colour.

Police were not targeting people because of their skin color here, they were enforcing the law.

 

[gashonthenail]

but Malarkey's sharp as a knife!

she's as sharp as a sack of bricks

 

[gashonthenail]

I don’t think it’s an uncomfortable question. It seems to just be moving the goalposts. Why is this particular metric the only metric that matters? Does having a good record on gay and women’s rights relative to Shariah law somehow make it okay for a country to commit war crimes?

Statistically speaking it’s pretty nice being born a human citizen of the United States—does this absolve the U.S. from the fact you’re statistically damned to hell (quite literally) if you’re born an animal in its agricultural sector?

I just think it's grey, not black and white. It's too easy to portray Israel as the 'evil' oppressor and Palestine as the 'good' victim. Although the article below is written with an obvious bias, there are definitely troubling questions about how the attacks on 7th October were portrayed in the media. There has got to be some form of 'middle course existence' where peace, and not war, is an option. But I don't think 'Free Palestine', whatever that might mean, is that option. About 80% of the original British Mandate of Palestine was given to the territory of what is now Jordan. Should that be given back to a new 'Free Palestine' too? I don't hear anyone calling for that.

What really happened on 7th October?

Evidence is now emerging that up to half the Israelis killed were combatants; that Israeli forces were responsible for some of their own civilian deaths; and that Tel Aviv disseminated false ‘Hamas atrocities’ stories to justify its devastating air assault on Palestinian civilians in Gaza.

new.thecradle.co