Is Coronavirus as serious as they say?

[nicky wire's legs]

I'm not totally antivacc but I'm anti covid-19 vaccination.

radis noir is making this out to be about pro-vaxxers vs. anti-vaxxers. he's creating a false duality which is the sort of cheap thing radis noir does.

 

[Deleted member 29235]

radis noir is making this out to be about pro-vaxxers vs. anti-vaxxers. he's creating a false duality which is the sort of cheap thing radis noir does.

Too funny! I was interested to hear the anti-vaxxer view on this. I find their arguments... amusing. If you have nothing to contribute, feel free not to.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

The vaccine is probably fine, but it must NEVER be made compulsory - directly or indirectly.

i might take it if there was the promise that life would get back to normal, no more masks, no more lockdowns etc. but i aint taking it for nothing.

 

[Deleted member 29235]

i might take it if there was the promise that life would get back to normal, no more masks, no more lockdowns etc. but i aint taking it for nothing.

You are lucky to live in a society where enough people will behave responsibly such that your attitude probably won't make any difference to anyone but yourself.

 

[caramel sea salt]

That's a splendid slippery slope you've found yourself on there. To completely disregard anything that SAGE might say because one member broke the isolation rules is quite something.

No, it's not a slippery slope at all. YOU cited to SAGE and their insane (and now proven incorrect) projections when you wanted the government to lock down sooner, harder, deeper. So it's not a question of "completely disregarding anything SAGE say" - you wanted the government to impose severe measures and restrictions, that have very serious consequences for 65 million people, based on what these people and only these people say. Bit different from "completely disregarding anything that SAGE might say"...

So, for future reference, when you want the government to listen to SAGE and lock down - do you mean they should listen to SAGE or do you mean they shouldn't completely disregard what SAGE say (and also listen to independent scientists like the ones Rifke quoted that you categorically dismiss). And when you say they should listen to SAGE and lock down sooner, harder, deeper, more ... do you mean they should listen to all of SAGE or only certain members? In which case, which SAGE members would you like them to listen to, and which SAGE members should they not listen to?

 

[Deleted member 29235]

No, it's not a slippery slope at all. YOU cited to SAGE and their insane (and now proven incorrect) projections when you wanted the government to lock down sooner, harder, deeper. So it's not a question of "completely disregard anything SAGE say" - you wanted the government to impose severe measures and restrictions, that have very serious consequences for 65 million people, based on what these people and only these people say. Bit different from "completely disregard anything that SAGE might say"...

So, for future reference, when you want the government to listen to SAGE and lock down - do you mean they should listen to SAGE or do you mean they shouldn't completely disregard what SAGE say (and also listen to independent scientists like the ones Rifke quoted that you categorically dismiss). And when you say they should listen to SAGE and lock down sooner, harder, deeper, more ... do you mean they should listen to all of SAGE or only certain members? In which case, which SAGE members would you like them to listen to, and which SAGE members should they not listen to?

I wanted the government to lock down sooner, not harder or deeper. In both lockdowns their tardiness and indecision has cost lives.
And 'independent scientists?' Seriously? Is that how you describe whackjobs like David Samada?

 

[Light Housework]

I'm off to bed. Genuinely sleepy...

 

[nicky wire's legs]

I'm off to bed. Genuinely sleepy...

me too! i read half a book today and now my eyes are tired!!

 

[Light Housework]

me too! i read half a book today and now my eyes are tired!!

Goodnight

 

[caramel sea salt]

I wanted the government to lock down sooner, not harder or deeper. In both lockdowns their tardiness and indecision has cost lives.
And 'independent scientists?' Seriously? Is that how you describe whackjobs like David Samada?

Fact remains you wanted them to listen to SAGE. Your constant moving of goal posts and avoiding to address any of the questions posed is extremely tedious and leads me to conclude that you are, in fact, a troll.

FYI I have no opinion on this David Samada guy, but I know that Dr Karol Sikora, Dr Sunetra Gupta and Dr John Ioannidis are serious, honest, world-renowned scientists, not whack jobs. How arrogant of you to dismiss them like this.

 

[caramel sea salt]

i might take it if there was the promise that life would get back to normal, no more masks, no more lockdowns etc. but i aint taking it for nothing.

I'm a little scared that politicians have realised how much power they have and how easy it is to push people around, and they will keep doing this as long as they can. I'm also scared that they have now found that "oooooh, nobody dies from influenza anymore, maybe we should keep wearing masks ..." and they will keep this health fascism going in all eternity.

What I would find reassuring is a promise from governments that, once this is over, our rights and liberties will be restored, unconditionally. But not one government, not even ours, has done that.

 

[Deleted member 29235]

Fact remains you wanted them to listen to SAGE. Your constant moving of goal posts and avoiding to address any of the questions posed is extremely tedious and leads me to conclude that you are, in fact, a troll.

FYI I have no opinion on this David Samada guy, but I know that Dr Karol Sikora, Dr Sunetra Gupta and Dr John Ioannidis are serious, honest, world-renowned scientists, not whack jobs. How arrogant of you to dismiss them like this.

It doesn't stop them being wrong, or having an agenda as Sikora seems to, or just wanting publicity as Samada seems to. Ionnidis has blotted his copybook somewhat:

Ioannidis widely promoted a study of which he had been co-author, "COVID-19 Antibody Seroprevalence in Santa Clara County, California", released as a preprint on April 17, 2020. It asserted that Santa Clara County's number of infections was more than 50 times higher than the official count, putting the virus’s fatality rate as low as 0.1% to 0.2%.[30] Ioannidis concluded from the study that the coronavirus is "not the apocalyptic problem we thought".[31] The message found favor with right-wing media outlets, but the paper dismayed epidemiologists who said its testing was inaccurate and its methods were sloppy.[32][33][34] Writing for Wired (magazine), David H. Freedman said that the Santa Clara study compromised Ioannidis' previously excellent reputation and meant that future generations of scientists may remember him as "the fringe scientist who pumped up a bad study that supported a crazy right-wing conspiracy theory in the middle of a massive health crisis."

So I'll continue to believe or disbelieve whomsoever I like and I am going to be extremely suspicious of any names that you throw up as 'serious, honest' and 'world-renowned' because when you scratch the surface you find people who have ulterior motives or agendas.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

I'm a little scared that politicians have realised how much power they have and how easy it is to push people around, and they will keep doing this as long as they can. I'm also scared that they have now found that "oooooh, nobody dies from influenza anymore, maybe we should keep wearing masks ..." and they will keep this health fascism going in all eternity.

What I would find reassuring is a promise from governments that, once this is over, our rights and liberties will be restored, unconditionally. But not one government, not even ours, has done that.

okay, i couldnt sleep (i hate that!) so im back just to reply to this (it's not everyday i get quoted by 12"!!)

that's really depressing, bun bun! the problem is not just the government but the fact that there will be people who will want to keep wearing masks even when this is over! THEY will say "well we should try to stop people dying of the flu too! this is the new normal, after all!". stupid people just looooooove getting with the program like that and quoting the new phrases. it's f***ing tragic.

and also, if we have to ask for freedom back, it begs the question of "were we really ever free to begin with?". we should be demanding it back!! problem is, there arent enough people on the side of freedom. you got people like radis noir here happy to take away everyones freedom. and i sincerely hope he appreciates what a serious responsibility he has taken on by supporting this side of the argument. i tend to think that he doesnt the way he uses avoidance and cheap tactics, but he really should, because it really isnt a game.

this is some good commentary from lionel shriver if you care to give it a listen. maybe you've already heard it.


as for quoting that doctor, i didnt even know who he was (i suppose thats a lesson for me to check beforehand). i only saw his tweet because ivor cummins liked it, and i wasnt quoting it for the person saying it but for the number he gave, which was easily verifiable, regardless of who said it.

 

[Fake C]

It doesn't stop them being wrong, or having an agenda as Sikora seems to, or just wanting publicity as Samada seems to. Ionnidis has blotted his copybook somewhat:

So I'll continue to believe or disbelieve whomsoever I like and I am going to be extremely suspicious of any names that you throw up as 'serious, honest' and 'world-renowned' because when you scratch the surface you find people who have ulterior motives or agendas.

That guy's nickname is Dum Dum so I wouldn't really get my hopes up for a productive conversation. This is all posturing so he and r**** can impress each other and LH can post graphs she doesn't understand and try to drag people into her nonstop drama.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

That guy's nickname is Dum Dum so I wouldn't really get my hopes up for a productive conversation. This is all posturing so he and r**** can impress each other and LH can post graphs she doesn't understand and try to drag people into her nonstop drama

and oh look! there's smarmy dave trying to get a foot into the conversation without actually having to know anything about what we're talking about

 

[nicky wire's legs]

you should definitely listen to the lionel shriver video, @Radis Noir . she talks specifically about you.

 

[Deleted member 29235]

you should definitely listen to the lionel shriver video, @Radis Noir . she talks specifically about you.

Ah well, me and Lionel go back a long way.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

Ah well, me and Lionel go back a long way.

the people she talks about people is how i perceive you TO A TEE.

 

[Deleted member 29235]

the people she talks about people is how i perceive you TO A TEE.

So you've watched someone on Youtube and decided to apply a description they've made to someone on the internet whom you barely know and you consider that to be some kind of triumph?

 

[caramel sea salt]

It doesn't stop them being wrong, or having an agenda as Sikora seems to, or just wanting publicity as Samada seems to. Ionnidis has blotted his copybook somewhat:

So I'll continue to believe or disbelieve whomsoever I like and I am going to be extremely suspicious of any names that you throw up as 'serious, honest' and 'world-renowned' because when you scratch the surface you find people who have ulterior motives or agendas.

Of course your beloved SAGE have no ulterior motives or agendas, nooo...

I don’t know who you are quoting there (source, please) but even if true, Joannidis’ predictions were a lot less wrong than those of SAGE’s Ferguson.