Do you think Sheila Take A Bow should have been on Strangeways?

[Skylarker]

According to Simon Goddard's notes, Sheila Take a Bow was recorded at around the same time that early work on Strangeways, Here We Come was begun (Sheila was started in late December 1986 and finished in January of '87; they began tracking work on Girlfriend In A Coma in January as well.)

Sonically there are traces of Strangeways on Sheila; at the very least it bears the same glam feel as I Started Something I Couldn't Finish.

I wonder how much stronger Strangeways could have been if Sheila had been included. Chronologically, if not thematically, it belongs there.

Taking it one step further, Sweet and Tender Hooligan and Is It Really So Strange were also tracked within a month of the commencement of the Strangeways sessions; as we all know, these songs' studio incarnations never even saw the light of day. It seems to me, in retrospect, that the final Smiths album (by no means, in my mind, their strongest) could have been a much more formidable swan song if these late-in-the-day one-off songs had been included, either in addition to the other ten or in place of several of the album tracks.

 

[MORRIZSEY]

No, I don't think it would have fitted well, or worked comfortably. It suited being a single aside to an album track

 

[Skylarker]

No, I don't think it would have fitted well, or worked comfortably. It suited being a single aside to an album track

I could definitely see it as the second track, before I Started Something I Couldn't Finish. Or, even better, after Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Me.

Last Night is so dark and somber and it needs a better pallet cleanser than Unhappy Birthday to pick the listener back up and revitalize the experience of the record's second half. Birthday is a decent song but it's so tepid and even paced. Shelia would provide a manic counterbalance to Last Night and appear even more emphatic coming after after it.

 

[realitybites]

I like Strangeways the way it is. It is my fave Smiths album. It has a certain atmosphere that would be altered with the inclusion of Sheila. Of course, had it been there originally, I might not complain. This is all in hindsight. Plus I love Louder Than Bombs and the fact that so many of its tracks cannot be found elsewhere, making it a wonderful album as well.

 

[Anonymous]

'Sheila' is uplifting and joyous. Its cheerful, vibrant swagger would be completely out of place on 'Strangeways'. I can possibly see a studio version of 'Is It Really So Strange?' working, though really 'Strangeways' is perfect as it is. Leave it alone, will yer?

 

[mcrickson]

As you raised the context of theme, I personally find myself hard-pressed to re-write the tracklistings of any of the Smiths' releases in that regards. I've truly felt that, release-wise, the Smiths put out everything they needed to put out in the right configuration the first time. This, of course, does not apply to 90s-and-beyond Warner/Rhino reissues. But when the band themselves were making the records and were at the helm in regards to what they released in what shape, my opinion is that there is true testament to the Smiths' genius to be had in the construct of their releases. Everything is just so damned consistent, thematically.

Morrissey's solo career, on the other hand, does not reflect that same consistency in terms of how his releases were put together - I suspect this is both a blessing and a curse. Regardless, it's the reason why every few months, a "re-write the tracklisting to a Morrissey album" thread crops up here.

 

[Skylarker]

As you raised the context of theme, I personally find myself hard-pressed to re-write the tracklistings of any of the Smiths' releases in that regards. I've truly felt that, release-wise, the Smiths put out everything they needed to put out in the right configuration the first time. This, of course, does not apply to 90s-and-beyond Warner/Rhino reissues. But when the band themselves were making the records and were at the helm in regards to what they released in what shape, my opinion is that there is true testament to the Smiths' genius to be had in the construct of their releases. Everything is just so damned consistent, thematically.

Morrissey's solo career, on the other hand, does not reflect that same consistency in terms of how his releases were put together - I suspect this is both a blessing and a curse. Regardless, it's the reason why every few months, a "re-write the tracklisting to a Morrissey album" thread crops up here.

I totally agree with what you are saying and personally can't imagine The Smiths' records configured differently than they are; the question was posed for fun and to shoot the shit...not to actually cry foul regarding Morrissey and Marr's tracklisting judgement. I'm happy with the albums as they are.

Having said that, I think Sheila was a great single, and that's how it was presented, so fine. But it's also a stronger track than about a third of what is on Strangeways. So the mind of the fan speculates...

 

[mcrickson]

I totally agree with what you are saying and personally can't imagine The Smiths' records configured differnetly than they are; the question was posed for fun and to shoot the shit...not because I think a rewrite is in order.

Having said that, I think Sheila was a great single, and that's how it was presented, so fine. But it's also a stronger track than about a third of what is on Strangeways. So the mind of the fan speculates...

Oh no, I wasn't meaning it to sound like that.

Personally, I think "Strangeways" needed some of those 'weaker' tracks.

 

[Skylarker]

Oh no, I wasn't meaning it to sound like that.

Personally, I think "Strangeways" needed some of those 'weaker' tracks.

Why though? I like every song on it but Death At One's Elbow (which I love, by the way) is b-side material by their standards. So is Unhappy Birthday and I Won't Share You. And the whole album overall is what, like 35 minutes long. Needs a little more ballast, I think. Great record, don't get me wrong, but not compared to the preceding two studio LPs.

Simon Goddard made an interesting point in Mozipedia that had the Keitel photo been used as intended, the public perception of the record would have been much stronger. I agree. And it isn't because I believe that the songs themselves aren't enough...the songs are the bottom line. But psychologically there's that stumbling block that gets to you even before the songs do...that bland, unfocused, yellowy, uber-close up Davalos face. Cool, but odd. That Keitel picture is so great, not to mention Morrissey's first choice for art. I think it would have really left an indelible mark on the listener's brain when recalling that collection of songs.

 

[realitybites]

Oh no, I wasn't meaning it to sound like that.

Personally, I think "Strangeways" needed some of those 'weaker' tracks.

What do you mean?

 

[mcrickson]

Why though? I like every song on it but Death At One's Elbow (which I love, by the way) is b-side material by their standards. So is Unhappy Birthday and I Won't Share You. And the whole album overall is what, like 35 minutes long. Needs a little more ballast, I think. Great record, don't get me wrong, but not compared to the preceding two studio LPs.

Simon Goddard made an interesting point in Mozipedia that had the Keitel photo been used as intended, the public perception of the record would have been much stronger. I agree. And it isn't because I believe that the songs themselves aren't enough...the songs are the bottom line. But psychologically there's that stumbling block that gets to you even before the songs do...that bland, unfocused, yellowy, uber-close up Davalos face. Cool, but odd. That Keitel picture is so great, not to mention Morrissey's first choice for art. I think it would have really left an indelible mark on the listener's brain when recalling that collection of songs.

What do you mean?

Y'know, going back to a previous post of yours (Skylarker's), I really think the whole problem for me is just that I can't even so much as envision the Smiths' albums being different in any way. Morrissey's albums - absolutely. But, for instance, I enjoy that "Sheila" was a non-album single. I'm honestly at a loss for words to explain precisely why. The Smiths' catalog is just untouchable as it is, to me. I know the point you're going for in this discussion, I just seem to be incapable of explaining my reasoning. Perhaps I should show myself out of this thread.

 

[Skylarker]

Y'know, going back to a previous post of yours (Skylarker's), I really think the whole problem for me is just that I can't even so much as envision the Smiths' albums being different in any way. Morrissey's albums - absolutely. But, for instance, I enjoy that "Sheila" was a non-album single. I'm honestly at a loss for words to explain precisely why. The Smiths' catalog is just untouchable as it is, to me. I know the point you're going for in this discussion, I just seem to be incapable of explaining my reasoning. Perhaps I should show myself out of this thread.

Would you go so far as to say "I just can't explain so I won't even try to?"

 

[mcrickson]

I'd like to make an amendment to my statement of their catalog being "untouchable" and say that I've never been a fan of the song "Unloveable." Both the lyrics and the melody leave me grossly unsatisfied, I skip it every time.

 

[realitybites]

Would you go so far as to say "I just can't explain so I won't even try to?"

Hehe.

 

[Skylarker]

I'd like to make an amendment to my statement of their catalog being "untouchable" and say that I've never been a fan of the song "Unloveable." Both the lyrics and the melody leave me grossly unsatisfied, I skip it every time.

I like it.

 

[realitybites]

I'd like to make an amendment to my statement of their catalog being "untouchable" and say that I've never been a fan of the song "Unloveable." Both the lyrics and the melody leave me grossly unsatisfied, I skip it every time.

Really? I love that song. Probably because I relate to the lyrics.

 

[mcrickson]

I like it.

 

[Skylarker]

Weird. I just watched Tommy Boy tonight with my kids. Spooky!

 

[mcrickson]

Weird. I just watched Tommy Boy tonight with my kids. Spooky!

Got that bad boy on VHS. Haven't watched it in years.

 

[realitybites]

Weird. I just watched Tommy Boy tonight with my kids. Spooky!

One of the funniest movie scenes ever is from Tommy Boy. First saw this when stoned and almost peed my pants it was so rolling on the floor f***ing funny!