New Moz single - What do you think of his consistency compared to other bands?

[dom]

Ok, i got Moz's new single today, as well as the new Radiohead album and listened to both on the train back from UNI

How people grow up, yea, heard it over the weeks and isn't too bad. Something Moz could write with his eyes closed and ears waxed up though really. I prefer Squeezing my skull -

Bonus track isn't quite as bad as people were saying, but a nothing too special either -

Artwork is nice and i like the texture -

Really love that it is on a gimmick vinyl CD. That is the best thing about it for me.

The Radiohead album comes in a cardboard cover beautifully awkward to open. When you get inside there are front and back covers to stick onto a CD case, if you would so wish to do so. There is an inlay booklet with LSD galactic splash type illustrations and lyrics scattered across the page like they have dropped from the sky. The CD itself comes in white cardboard with illustrations of tiny houses scattering downwards in a sort of upside down crown shape or something.

um, what else...? Oh yea! And the songs are also amazing.

Radiohead have never, as far as i can recall, dealt me with shoddy half worked type stuff like the new Moz single. Radiohead have constantly given great live albums (and many of them too) Weird and wonderful albums from Japan with Japanese writing on the back. Rare remixes, tons of origional artwork by the band, acoustic sets, box sets... and blah blah.

They offered everyone the possibility to log on to the internet and set a price at which we think we should buy their new album at, and that would be the price we would pay for ourselves. If i had been able to get onto the internet to do this, i would have probably paid full price, if not, more for it. Not just cos it's a great album, but cos they have been consistently angelic with their offerings on CD format, with singles, albums, EP's, live recordings...the lot.

"The Queen Is Dead" is quite possibly one of the best, if not the best album to have ever been made, alongside the rest really. But this is not too great i think from Moz. I have bought it cos i'm a fan, and will always support him, but it doenst change what i feel about what he gives me as a fan.

What do others think? my personal, totally humble and un-professional opinion is that i am being given half measures. The new Moz single is a half pint of liquid in a full pint glass. I’m hoping that the glass is half full at the moment and not half empty?

Bodysnatchers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzEWPI2Ttvo

Jigsaw Falling Into Place
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXVj2WdAIqM

 

[Worm]

The (real or illusory) relationship Radiohead is trying to cultivate between themselves and their fans is a democracy. Morrissey's is now and always has been a dictatorship. At the risk of sounding masochistic I prefer the latter. Keeping the distance between pop star and audience is far more preferable.

And anyway it's mostly superficial: are you really "closer" or "more involved" or "better treated" by Radiohead or other bands that load up the extras or put together these elaborate "fan-friendly" schemes? Are you really treated that poorly by Morrissey?

Don't get me wrong, I think he's dogging it a little bit on the sleeves, too; he's a far cry from his days doing those beautiful designs for The Smiths and his early solo work. But as I've said before: in the ways that count no one gives more to his audience than Morrissey.

 

[dom]

The (real or illusory) relationship Radiohead is trying to cultivate between themselves and their fans is a democracy. Morrissey's is now and always has been a dictatorship. At the risk of sounding masochistic I prefer the latter. Keeping the distance between pop star and audience is far more preferable.

And anyway it's mostly superficial: are you really "closer" or "more involved" or "better treated" by Radiohead or other bands that load up the extras or put together these elaborate "fan-friendly" schemes? Are you really treated that poorly by Morrissey?

Don't get me wrong, I think he's dogging it a little bit on the sleeves, too; he's a far cry from his days doing those beautiful designs for The Smiths and his early solo work. But as I've said before: in the ways that count no one gives more to his audience than Morrissey.

True i guess, i just think it's so important for an artist to respect the fact that we are using OUR OWN MONEY in buying these things. Yea, we don't have to, but we want to, because we love them. Artists can be distant if they wish to, but they shouldn't rip us off. Whether Radiohead have given us an illusion or not, there is no illusion that i get what i pay for when i buy their things. i don't feel ripped off. Today, Moz has made me feel ripped off. So yea, in that light, Radiohead have treated me better, cos not only have they consistently given me my moneys worth over the course of 14 years, but they've also consistently written GREAT music. From the grassroots to the present.

 

[Worm]

True i guess, i just think it's so important for an artist to respect the fact that we are using OUR OWN MONEY in buying these things. Yea, we don't have to, but we want to, because we love them. Artists can be distant if they wish to, but they shouldn't rip us off. Whether Radiohead have given us an illusion or not, there is no illusion that i get what i pay for when i buy their things. i don't feel ripped off. Today, Moz has made me feel ripped off. So yea, in that light, Radiohead have treated me better, cos not only have they consistently given me my moneys worth over the course of 14 years, but they've also consistently written GREAT music. From the grassroots to the present.

I dig what you're saying. In a way there's no reasonable response to your complaint. You feel ripped off and there's no two ways about it.

All I would add is that on an emotional level what Radiohead and Morrissey offer their fans is two different things. Morrissey is really selling himself. Radiohead's music is much more abstract. They have an easier time experimenting, evolving, exploring. Morrissey does not. Just as he has always been, he can only be himself, for better or worse. That is his selling point. In a perverse way I appreciate that Morrissey often frustrates his fans because he is being honest in ways that most artists never even dream of let alone approach. Was Morrissey lazy when he designed the new single sleeve? Maybe, but I would take honest laziness over fabricated engagement any day of the week. He's earned that trust from me.

 

[dom]

I dig what you're saying. In a way there's no reasonable response to your complaint. You feel ripped off and there's no two ways about it.

All I would add is that on an emotional level what Radiohead and Morrissey offer their fans is two different things. Morrissey is really selling himself. Radiohead's music is much more abstract. They have an easier time experimenting, evolving, exploring. Morrissey does not. Just as he has always been, he is simply himself. That is his selling point. In a perverse way I appreciate that Morrissey often frustrates his fans because he is being honest in ways that most artists never even dream of let alone approach. Was Morrissey lazy when he designed the new single sleeve? Maybe, but I would take honest laziness over fabricated engagement any day of the week. He's earned that trust from me.

Lol, honnest laziness heh heh. VERY true actually about 2 differnt bands offering 2 differnt things. I'm sure he didn't even design the sleeve, it was probably his company. I'm sure Radiohead make sure they have as much say as possible in theirs. Two differnt bands. Two differnt ways.

 

[laughing_anne]

Ok, i got Moz's new single today, as well as the new Radiohead album and listened to both on the train back from UNI

How people grow up, yea, heard it over the weeks and isn't too bad. Something Moz could write with his eyes closed and ears waxed up though really. I prefer Squeezing my skull -

Bonus track isn't quite as bad as people were saying, but a nothing too special either -

Artwork is nice and i like the texture -

Really love that it is on a gimmick vinyl CD. That is the best thing about it for me.

The Radiohead album comes in a cardboard cover beautifully awkward to open. When you get inside there are front and back covers to stick onto a CD case, if you would so wish to do so. There is an inlay booklet with LSD galactic splash type illustrations and lyrics scattered across the page like they have dropped from the sky. The CD itself comes in white cardboard with illustrations of tiny houses scattering downwards in a sort of upside down crown shape or something.

um, what else...? Oh yea! And the songs are also amazing.

Radiohead have never, as far as i can recall, dealt me with shoddy half worked type stuff like the new Moz single. Radiohead have constantly given great live albums (and many of them too) Weird and wonderful albums from Japan with Japanese writing on the back. Rare remixes, tons of origional artwork by the band, acoustic sets, box sets... and blah blah.

They offered everyone the possibility to log on to the internet and set a price at which we think we should buy their new album at, and that would be the price we would pay for ourselves. If i had been able to get onto the internet to do this, i would have probably paid full price, if not, more for it. Not just cos it's a great album, but cos they have been consistently angelic with their offerings on CD format, with singles, albums, EP's, live recordings...the lot.

"The Queen Is Dead" is quite possibly one of the best, if not the best album to have ever been made, alongside the rest really. But this is not too great i think from Moz. I have bought it cos i'm a fan, and will always support him, but it doenst change what i feel about what he gives me as a fan.

What do others think? my personal, totally humble and un-professional opinion is that i am being given half measures. The new Moz single is a half pint of liquid in a full pint glass. I’m hoping that the glass is half full at the moment and not half empty?

Bodysnatchers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzEWPI2Ttvo

Jigsaw Falling Into Place
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXVj2WdAIqM

I stopped listening to Radiohead after OK Computer anyways...
Granted, That's How People Grow up isn't one of his finest moments but I'd rather wait for the new album to come out rather than focus so much energy on a Greatest Hits compilation and two new songs.

 

[robbo12345]

Hail to the Thief and Amnesiac or are dross.

 

[Worm]

Lol, honnest laziness heh heh. VERY true actually about 2 differnt bands offering 2 differnt things. I'm sure he didn't even design the sleeve, it was probably his company. I'm sure Radiohead make sure they have as much say as possible in theirs. Two differnt bands. Two differnt ways.

I'm sure Morrissey chose the photo and the text. How it was laid out and packaged across the versions, I dunno. The record company probably did that. The fact that he didn't have as much involvement is probably due to his despair over the death of vinyl. No point in spending time designing artwork for a little CD cover. Why bother? Just me speculating. I suspect if he ever turned over the matter to the record company we would get better sleeves and packages-- again, I know this is probably ridiculous rationalizing on my part but the lack of attention is a sign of his involvement. How's that for upside-down thinking?

Radiohead is a brilliant band. I like them a lot. "OK Computer" is one of my all-time favorite albums. Still, what they've done is a thousand times easier than what Morrissey has done. Thom Yorke has written great lyrics. Some of his tunes are definitely emotional and raw. But he didn't stand up in front of the entire world and lay his heart bare as Morrissey has done. Radiohead make very smart music that engages with listeners in a different way and more importantly allows them to keep changing and growing.

Put simply, Radiohead make films. Morrissey opens his diary.

Consequently, Morrissey was painted into a corner from the beginning. There's nowhere for him to go but this is a strength rather than a failing. I know this probably disappoints some people who wonder why he can't incorporate technopop or reggae into his music but them's the facts. If Morrissey had followed his original plan with Marr and merely been a behind-the-scenes songwriter I think his career would have played out more like Radiohead's. Since he could only ever be himself, however, we have to take what we can get-- which I think is a hell of a lot.

Anyway I don't think anyone could call your complaints unreasonable. In fact I think I went through the same stage-- with "Dagenham Dave".

 

[dom]

Hail to the Thief and Amnesiac or are dross.

Huh? Ce qua? Come again? Is that good, or bad?

 

[dom]

I stopped listening to Radiohead after OK Computer anyways...
Granted, That's How People Grow up isn't one of his finest moments but I'd rather wait for the new album to come out rather than focus so much energy on a Greatest Hits compilation and two new songs.

Ooh! Don't stop listening! Don't stop listening! It's like stopping your own breathing. It's silly, and it will kill you.

 

[laughing_anne]

Ooh! Don't stop listening! Don't stop listening! It's like stopping your own breathing. It's silly, and it will kill you.

And yet, here I am, after a glorious radiohead-free decade...
I still listen to the old stuff if that makes you feel any better

 

[Danny_]

Somehow can't see Radiohead going to the trouble of playing places like Doncaster or Sunderland. The hip and trendy PR friendly "secret" gig at Rough Trade is more their scene.

Which artist is the lazier? I suppose it's a matter of opinion.

I certainly would have felt ripped off if I'd have paid £40 for a boxset of the same record in different formats. Especially seeing as it was Radiohead!

 

[robbo12345]

Huh? Ce qua? Come again? Is that good, or bad?

Haha I don't like them, think they are awful. Pablo Honey is pretty mediocre too. Rest of them are rather good though

 

[Worm]

I certainly would have felt ripped off if I'd have paid £40 for a boxset of the same record in different formats.

Exactly. It's a question of perceived worth.

I recently paid US $60 for a box set of a "classic" album. Certainly the package was lovingly put together: special box, postcard set, booklet with written contributions from the people who made the original record, live DVD, remastered original disc plus bonus disc with B-sides and rarities. No question about it, this was a quality package.

But after I got over the initial pleasure of listening to the album again and enjoying the rarities, I realized that my collection was not substantially improved. I wasn't set on fire. I didn't "rediscover" anything. I had most of the songs on the bonus disc and the live DVD was something I'd watch once and never again.

I didn't feel ripped off, but at the same time I could've lived without the box set.

Morrissey is not "fan friendly" in that we get rare outtakes, special live discs, liner notes, etc, but on the other hand his stuff is transparently exploitative. Meaning it's pretty damn obvious when you need to buy something and when you don't. I think he would be disappointing to collectors-- completists-- since to have it all they've got to buy redundant copies of his releases, but to casual fans he isn't too dastardly on that front.

 

[dom]

Exactly. It's a question of perceived worth.

I recently paid US $60 for a box set of a "classic" album. Certainly the package was lovingly put together: special box, postcard set, booklet with written contributions from the people who made the original record, live DVD, remastered original disc plus bonus disc with B-sides and rarities. No question about it, this was a quality package.

But after I got over the initial pleasure of listening to the album again and enjoying the rarities, I realized that my collection was not substantially improved. I wasn't set on fire. I didn't "rediscover" anything. I had most of the songs on the bonus disc and the live DVD was something I'd watch once and never again.

I didn't feel ripped off, but at the same time I could've lived without the box set.

Morrissey is not "fan friendly" in that we get rare outtakes, special live discs, liner notes, etc, but on the other hand his stuff is transparently exploitative. Meaning it's pretty damn obvious when you need to buy something and when you don't. I think he would be disappointing to collectors-- completists-- since to have it all they've got to buy redundant copies of his releases, but to casual fans he isn't too dastardly on that front.

You're slowly shedding light to Morrissey for me, thank you. Honestly. I hadn't thought of it that way. However, i will still be using my refunded Morrissey ticket money for the Radiohead gig in london in June. They are still my fave band alongside The Smiths, and i have seen Moz once (nearly twice) and never have Radiohead, so would be good. But yea, i think you're right, i have to admit. I am feeling a bit less agitated with Moz now. That's the truth, so thank you

 

[Worm]

You're slowly shedding light to Morrissey for me, thank you. Honestly. I hadn't thought of it that way. However, i will still be using my refunded Morrissey ticket money for the Radiohead gig in london in June. They are still my fave band alongside The Smiths, and i have seen Moz once (nearly twice) and never have Radiohead, so would be good. But yea, i think you're right, i have to admit. I am feeling a bit less agitated with Moz now. That's the truth, so thank you

Good, it was all worth it!

Morrissey is extra trouble but he's worth it. And the Radioheads of the world will always be there.

 

[dom]

Good, it was all worth it!

Morrissey is extra trouble but he's worth it. And the Radioheads of the world will always be there.

I have just been reading a thread that has that cool looking crest in it, with the lions and the heart and the gun and the key and the violin etc. I was also thinking of some of his lyrics and how great they are, even simple ones like " nothing entered me till you came with the key and you did your best but as i live and breath you have killed me" make me think, wow. My rant is pretty much over...until the next time, or next single, or next dissapointment. I have however just bought tickets to see Radiohead, which will be funded by my re-fundded Morrissey ticket.

 

[Paulc]

I have just been reading a thread that has that cool looking crest in it, with the lions and the heart and the gun and the key and the violin etc. I was also thinking of some of his lyrics and how great they are, even simple ones like " nothing entered me till you came with the key and you did your best but as i live and breath you have killed me" make me think, wow. My rant is pretty much over...until the next time, or next single, or next dissapointment. I have however just bought tickets to see Radiohead, which will be funded by my re-fundded Morrissey ticket.

Radiohead are excellent live - i saw them at Earls Court a few years back and was blown away. But they are not a patch on Morrissey live. They dont stimulate the same emotional response as he does. I dont have the words to explain why but live there is no comparison.

In terms of studio music some of the stuff Radiohead have produced is simply breathtaking - Paranoid Android, Street Spirit, No Surprises etc etc are magical work but wait til you see the top 50 songs in the list Houdini is going to post later. No one has a back catalogue of such depth, quality and variety.

With regards to what gets released it is an often used criticism of Morrissey (and the Smiths) that the very best songs are not used as singles while some odd choices are (you're the one for me fatty for example). But i think adding in extras and using them as retention marketing ploys as Radiohead do is not Morrissey's style. As Worm says his relationship with his audience is far different and frankly more real and honest and old fashioned.