Andy Burnham (Labour MP) says ''The Smiths have not stood the test of time''

Maybe he should have come to the Morrissey birthday come-back in May '04 as I did at M.E.N.
But maybe he was still having his wee panties changed

Phoney Blair! Like it!

 

[Anonymous]

"The Smiths have not stood the test of time" ... but the Labour Party HAS, I suppose? Interesting.

 

[Peterb]

"The Smiths have not stood the test of time" ... but the Labour Party HAS, I suppose? Interesting.

Nope, I'm afraid that is neither interesting nor true. Labour are not in power, end of.
How old did the Tories look in the 90's? And now the sods are in charge!

 

[Rowntree]

Nope, I'm afraid that is neither interesting nor true. Labour are not in power, end of.
How old did the Tories look in the 90's? And now the sods are in charge!

Indeed Peter. They don't look much better now though to be fair!

Another MP confirms that he doesn't know what he's talking about, who's next?

 

[Peterb]

Indeed Peter. They don't look much better now though to be fair!

Another MP confirms that he doesn't know what he's talking about, who's next?

Damn right the excellent Rowntree.
I follow your posts all around this site and I always like what you have to say (although I think we'd differ a little on the subject of the Labour government but it wouldn't come to blows).

 

[Rowntree]

Damn right the excellent Rowntree.
I follow your posts all around this site and I always like what you have to say (although I think we'd differ a little on the subject of the Labour government but it wouldn't come to blows).

Thank you Peter, I agree with pretty much all your posts too which is unusual on here. I do feel Labour have lost their way a bit - they've become obsessed with counteracting what the Tories do and would be better served by getting back to basics and looking out for those at the bottom of society, it's proven that wealth at the top doesn't filter down to the bottom and we need a political party who is willing to address that. We're in tough times and they should be romping ahead in the opinion polls. Really, how much more help do they need than having Osbourne and Gove in the Cabinet?

 

[Johnny Barleycorn]

Thank you Peter, I agree with pretty much all your posts too which is unusual on here. I do feel Labour have lost their way a bit - they've become obsessed with counteracting what the Tories do and would be better served by getting back to basics and looking out for those at the bottom of society, it's proven that wealth at the top doesn't filter down to the bottom and we need a political party who is willing to address that. We're in tough times and they should be romping ahead in the opinion polls. Really, how much more help do they need than having Osbourne and Gove in the Cabinet?

I was discussing this yesterday with my fellow liberals, Rowntree.

Frankly, I think that although the central tenet is valid; that of representing those at the bottom, there aren't enough people down there anymore to build anything close to a parliamentary majority. Therefore, there aren't many votes in it.

Forty or fifty years ago the nation was polarised across class boundaries far more than today. Lifestyles for most have improved in leaps and bounds and will continue to do so as the decades pass, so those down there are left behind.

Also, and let's be blunt, the underclass, the Jeremy Kyle bunch, have never really shown much interest in anything beyond puff and tupping their own grandmothers. No votes there. I know the concept of the deserving and undeserving poor is controversial, but I think it exists. How do you filter one from the other without the deserving being hit?

When Osborne talked about people who stay at home with the curtains drawn while others work the reason it resonated was that many have experienced that. They haven't experienced the millionaires and billionaires taking the piss at the top, as some do. Those at the top and at the bottom who believe themselves beyond the basic rules of society need to be dealt with. Depending on where we stand in the political landscape neither grouping will ever be tackled to our satisfaction.

 

[Rowntree]

I was discussing this yesterday with my fellow liberals, Rowntree.

Frankly, I think that although the central tenet is valid; that of representing those at the bottom, there aren't enough people down there anymore to build anything close to a parliamentary majority. Therefore, there aren't many votes in it.

Forty or fifty years ago the nation was polarised across class boundaries far more than today. Lifestyles for most have improved in leaps and bounds and will continue to do so as the decades pass, so those down there are left behind.

Also, and let's be blunt, the underclass, the Jeremy Kyle bunch, have never really shown much interest in anything beyond puff and tupping their own grandmothers. No votes there. I know the concept of the deserving and undeserving poor is controversial, but I think it exists. How do you filter one from the other without the deserving being hit?

When Osborne talked about people who stay at home with the curtains drawn while others work the reason it resonated was that many have experienced that. They haven't experienced the millionaires and billionaires taking the piss at the top, as some do. Those at the top and at the bottom who believe themselves beyond the basic rules of society need to be dealt with. Depending on where we stand in the political landscape neither grouping will ever be tackled to our satisfaction.

You make valid points Johnny, I'm not advocating that policies should be aimed at getting the workshy's vote, more that the bottom of society needs to be regenerated unless we're just going to accept that a million or two people might as well be cut adrift. On top of that, we need wages that are worthwhile and people can live on - this should be aided by apprenticeships that cost very little to employers - something akin to the YTS would be fine to get school leavers a trade and into jobs. The majority of school leavers still live at home and don't need minimum wages, they need something which will hopefully set them up for life. The amount of kids leaving school with nothing to go into is frightening and it's going to kick us up the arse in the future unless something is done about it. Basically, we need policies that will make real change at the bottom of society instead of turning the whole debate into an attack the scroungers thing.

In the meantime, rather than squeezing the life out of the economy and attacking those at the bottom the government will have to be more imaginative in collecting tax from businesses that operate in this country. If a company doesn't want to pay tax then cut them adrift and let something else take its place. We have to be less willing to be bummed by industry, I'm happy to give concessions to businesses that pay their way but we should give nothing to those that don't.

 

[Johnny Barleycorn]

You make valid points Johnny, I'm not advocating that policies should be aimed at getting the workshy's vote, more that the bottom of society needs to be regenerated unless we're just going to accept that a million or two people might as well be cut adrift. On top of that, we need wages that are worthwhile and people can live on - this should be aided by apprenticeships that cost very little to employers - something akin to the YTS would be fine to get school leavers a trade and into jobs. The majority of school leavers still live at home and don't need minimum wages, they need something which will hopefully set them up for life. The amount of kids leaving school with nothing to go into is frightening and it's going to kick us up the arse in the future unless something is done about it. Basically, we need policies that will make real change at the bottom of society instead of turning the whole debate into an attack the scroungers thing.

In the meantime, rather than squeezing the life out of the economy and attacking those at the bottom the government will have to be more imaginative in collecting tax from businesses that operate in this country. If a company doesn't want to pay tax then cut them adrift and let something else take its place. We have to be less willing to be bummed by industry, I'm happy to give concessions to businesses that pay their way but we should give nothing to those that don't.

I...

agree.

 

[Peterb]

I...

agree.

Hooray! 2 reasonable people get their heads together and come to a reasonable conclusion. A lesson to us all.