why does papa jack get so much stick?

[maynardmorrissey]

I really don't know. A great song full of great melodies. One of my favorites from Maladjusted

 

[CrookedLittleVein]

I like the intro and the outro. The bit in the middle is a little bland. I think it suffers from following on from Trouble Loves Me. All that being said, there isn't anybody writing pop songs about fatherhood quite like Morrissey. Pretty impressive considering he isn't a father himself (let's not go down the Gubbins route, eh?).

I'm pretty indifferent to Ammunition and think Roy's Keen isn't bad as a bit of lightweight pop silliness.

The rest of the album I love, particularly Wide to Receive which has to be the richest song Morrissey has ever recorded.

 

[marred]

I also don't understand why some people hate 'Papa Jack' so much.
Very sad that Morrissey removed it from remastered Maladjusted.

yeah who are these people? Bloody people with their opinions and everything! Oh wait Moz is one of 'em

 

[Stoned]

I love everything about this song, Moz was utterly wrong to remove it from the reissue.
Cheers Moz

 

[Qvist]

beautiful acoustic intro. lovely vocal melody. is it the mock rock outro that people hate?

For me it's fairly straightforward - it's simply a weak melody that doesn't go anywhere. I don't think the vocal melody is very lovely, it seems to me more like a third-rate effort. The outro doesn't bother me. But that's how it is, I have songs that I really like but that most other people seem to dismiss as inconsequential as well. "Dial-a-cliche", for example.

cheers

 

[Maurice E]

I like the intro and the outro. The bit in the middle is a little bland. I think it suffers from following on from Trouble Loves Me. All that being said, there isn't anybody writing pop songs about fatherhood quite like Morrissey. Pretty impressive considering he isn't a father himself (let's not go down the Gubbins route, eh?).

I'm pretty indifferent to Ammunition and think Roy's Keen isn't bad as a bit of lightweight pop silliness.

The rest of the album I love, particularly Wide to Receive which has to be the richest song Morrissey has ever recorded.

Nice analysis, Crooked Vein. The intro and outro (great word!) are indeed the best bits. The song may generally have benefited from a different arrangement, or even just a faster tempo.
Yes, Wide to Receive is a wonderfully rich song. I was gobsmacked when I first heard it; couldn't understand why none of the reviewers had singled it out for praise. The coda and the harmonies are gorgeous.
The saddest thing is that it was a new songwriter (Spencer Cobrin)'s contribution who, soon after, fell by the wayside.
He also wrote the equally wonderful Lost. It's tragic that Moz and he fell out. In recent years, Moz has desperately needed a songwriter who can steer him away from generic indie pop and, on the strength of 'Lost' and 'Wide to Recieve', Spencer Cobrin would have been just the man for the job...

 

[CrookedLittleVein]

Nice analysis, Crooked Vein. The intro and outro (great word!) are indeed the best bits. The song may generally have benefited from a different arrangement, or even just a faster tempo.
Yes, Wide to Receive is a wonderfully rich song. I was gobsmacked when I first heard it; couldn't understand why none of the reviewers had singled it out for praise. The coda and the harmonies are gorgeous.
The saddest thing is that it was a new songwriter (Spencer Cobrin)'s contribution who, soon after, fell by the wayside.
He also wrote the equally wonderful Lost. It's tragic that Moz and he fell out. In recent years, Moz has desperately needed a songwriter who can steer him away from generic indie pop and, on the strength of 'Lost' and 'Wide to Recieve', Spencer Cobrin would have been just the man for the job...

I think it was a tragedy that Spencer fell out with Morrissey. He seemed to bring something to the group that was otherwise lacking, a sort of cinematic lushness. Admittedly there's not much evidence to support that claim, but what little there is (Lost, Wide to Receive, arrangements for Scott Matthew) is pretty compelling.

 

[mcrickson]

In recent years, Moz has desperately needed a songwriter who can steer him away from generic indie pop and, on the strength of 'Lost' and 'Wide to Recieve', Spencer Cobrin would have been just the man for the job...

Idk, to me it seems like songs like 'Wide to Recieve' and 'Now I Am a Was' ARE indie pop.. But that's just me.

 

[Jessikers]

I adore the entire album, especially Papa Jack. It puts a lump in my throat at times.

 

[Raphael Lambach]

I think it was a tragedy that Spencer fell out with Morrissey. He seemed to bring something to the group that was otherwise lacking, a sort of cinematic lushness. Admittedly there's not much evidence to support that claim, but what little there is (Lost, Wide to Receive, arrangements for Scott Matthew) is pretty compelling.

Do you think "Papa Jack" is about Spencer's quit from Moz's band?

At 97 Morrissey already speak about virtual relationship between people. It's avant-guardist, ins't it?

 

[Maurice E]

Do you think "Papa Jack" is about Spencer's quit from Moz's band?

Nope, Cobrin was part of the Maladjusted sessions (and the subsequent b-side session).

 

[smiler]

Absolutely nothing wrong with the lyrics...

Papa Jack
Wants to turn
Back the clock
And reach out
To the kids
He once had
Who have flown

Papa Jack
In decline
Feels inclined
To reach out
To the kids
He once had
Who have flown

But there was a time
When the kids reached up
And Papa Jack just
Pushed them away

Looking deep
In his heart
Papa Jack
Doesn't like
What he sees
Or the time
On his hands

...and the tune is ok too.

Always liked this song and always will.
Very sad though...

I always felt Morrissey was Papa Jack - he was, at the time very much in decline - battered in the press - no record deal - failing support in the uk - generally felt to be past it - and when he played live the crowd didn't reach out like they used to - didn't rush the stage to touch him with such vigor as before -

 

[Maurice E]

I always felt Morrissey was Papa Jack - he was, at the time very much in decline - battered in the press - no record deal - failing support in the uk - generally felt to be past it - and when he played live the crowd didn't reach out like they used to - didn't rush the stage to touch him with such vigor as before -

yep, there was defo an autobiographical element to the song - bit like 'Now I Am A Was' from the same era.
if only Moz had known his greatest commercial success (in the UK at least) was still to come!

 

[CrystalGeezer]

I always get this song mixed up with The Father Who Must Be Killed.

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/B7aF1O43IMc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/B7aF1O43IMc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Maybe the paparazzi that must be killed. Hm.