What do you think of the general quality of the new songs?

[WinkWink]

I guess i would accept All You Need Is Me, but the others are trash...sound the same, lyrically boring, musically uninspired.

I started being disappointed with ROTT b-sides...the album is pretty good but the b-sides started going down hill with very basic guitar progressions, which continued with these new songs. Heck, I like Sweetie Pie the most of the ROTT b-sides and it's still better than All You Need Is ME.

I voted for: Disappointing/not very good. Worse than most of the Quarry/ROTT songs

And that's the truth...because I said it.

 

[Tbevie]

It seems quite a few people on here are feeling the same.
The lyrics now seem very direct and lacking in poetry.
A bit of a concern when you consider Moz's words have always been so important.

However,i do remember thinking the same way when songs like Dagenham Dave came out.

I'm hoping that he'll go more Sweetie Pie direction : pretty straight lyrics but with a very ethereals,trange feel about them

I agree. Sweetie Pie is one of my favourites from the ROTT period.

I think the most disappointing lyrics are from 'That's how people grow up'. Some of the lines actually make me cringe. Witch is something I’ve never felt when listening to Morrissey’s lyrics.

 

[Jamie]

As many have said, it is not completely fair to judge the songs definitively without a proper recording. That said, I find them to be a bit tedious and samey. Morrissey turns a bit of nice melody here and there, but doesn't seem up for sustaining it throughout the songs. They all seem to run out of gas about 3/4 through.

I don't disagree that he needs to change the course soundwise a bit, but dropping an accordion in one song and a random clarinet "free jazz" section smack more of novelty than new direction. The Kristeen Young caterwauling at the top of That's How People Grow Up also went over my head--her "melody," frankly, doesn't even fit the music of the opening bars of the song. Again, to my ear, a misguided attempt to shuffle the deck. Perhaps I'm getting too old, but I don't get any rock and roll excitement out of a trumpet or (Jesus wept) a TROMBONE solo. And the (so far) one-trick pony that is Jesse keeps churning out subpar "punk-pop" that plunkers like Green Day would turn their nose up at.

I feel most disappointed in the lyrical quality. I know in 2004 he said something in an interview to the effect that he wished to write more direct lyrics because he felt he had poured his every fibre of being into the earlier material. Perhaps this was a clever ruse to not avoid admitting that he has little left to say. As someone pointed out, scads about mortality these days. Not enough humor or removal from the situations--a mid-life crisis solipsism? I long for the breadth of a Maladjusted, the black humor of a Nobody Loves Us, or the third person identification of a Boxers.

Far be it from me to say he "owes" us. But I would hope that, as an artist with a sizable legacy and a varied, high quality catalog, he still retains enough pride in his craft to give every song his full attention and best effort. No one wants to see weak "latter day" compositions diminish the overall canon. He owes it to HIMSELF.

Blah blah blah...

Cheers,
Jamie

 

[Maurice E]

As many have said, it is not completely fair to judge the songs definitively without a proper recording. That said, I find them to be a bit tedious and samey. Morrissey turns a bit of nice melody here and there, but doesn't seem up for sustaining it throughout the songs. They all seem to run out of gas about 3/4 through.

I don't disagree that he needs to change the course soundwise a bit, but dropping an accordion in one song and a random clarinet "free jazz" section smack more of novelty than new direction. The Kristeen Young caterwauling at the top of That's How People Grow Up also went over my head--her "melody," frankly, doesn't even fit the music of the opening bars of the song. Again, to my ear, a misguided attempt to shuffle the deck. Perhaps I'm getting too old, but I don't get any rock and roll excitement out of a trumpet or (Jesus wept) a TROMBONE solo. And the (so far) one-trick pony that is Jesse keeps churning out subpar "punk-pop" that plunkers like Green Day would turn their nose up at.

I feel most disappointed in the lyrical quality. I know in 2004 he said something in an interview to the effect that he wished to write more direct lyrics because he felt he had poured his every fibre of being into the earlier material. Perhaps this was a clever ruse to not avoid admitting that he has little left to say. As someone pointed out, scads about mortality these days. Not enough humor or removal from the situations--a mid-life crisis solipsism? I long for the breadth of a Maladjusted, the black humor of a Nobody Loves Us, or the third person identification of a Boxers.

Far be it from me to say he "owes" us. But I would hope that, as an artist with a sizable legacy and a varied, high quality catalog, he still retains enough pride in his craft to give every song his full attention and best effort. No one wants to see weak "latter day" compositions diminish the overall canon. He owes it to HIMSELF.

Blah blah blah...

Cheers,
Jamie

Interesting stuff Jamie. I agree with a lot of that. But I don't think Moz needs a new direction. He just needs stronger melodies.
I actually think 'Paris' has a great melody (only heard it twice) and a very simple but effective guitar line in the verse. So I'm pretty optimistic about that song at least.
I think he also needs more time to come up with good lyrics. There were some great lyrics in the Quarry sessions; mainly on b-sides like Walk Tall, Never-played Symphony, Daddy's Voice, Friday Mourning etc.
So he can write good stuff in his 40's. He just needs to take a bit more time to look around a bit and feel inspired.

 

[imogen11]

He just needs to take a bit more time to look around a bit and feel inspired.

I agree with both yourself and Jamie and I think this statement, Maurice, is spot on!

 

[Maurice E]

Hi all,
Thanks for these responses. I must say that I’m quite surprised. I don’t think much of ‘All you need is me’; doesn’t seem to have a proper chorus or memorable melody but I thought Paris and ‘That’s How People Grow Up’ were both considerably stronger, musically, than most of the Ringleader stuff. Haven’t heard the brand-new new song properly yet though…
Maurice

 

[Pokey]

Not a huge fan of "Grow Up", the lyrics are quite bad and the melody itself is pretty bland. However the other 3 I really like, Paris being my fav, however like its been said, it'd be nicer if it were a bit longer with a little more lyrics to it.

I don't wanna be the one to bring it all down because usually I role my eyes at the whole retirement thing, and I dont really think this means a lot, but its strange how pretty much all the songs in a way have a theme of "goodbye" to them.

 

[Zenith Nadir]

Not entirely on topic here, but there's a number of people that rate ROTT highly, and a number that rate it as awful. Certainly far less consensus than for e.g. Vauxhall being sublime and Maladjusted being forgettable.

I'm going to speculate/guess/attribute that to whether the Moz cultists like or dislike the sound Jesse brought to the band. I'm vastly oversimplifying it I'm sure, but I'll stick to it for the sake of argument.

You Have Killed Me, The Youngest Was The Most Loved, In The Future When All's Well, On The Streets I Ran & I Just Want To See The Boy Happy. If you think they're good/great songs, that's a decent whack of the album you're going get absorbed by before even considering the other seven compositions. Likewise if you think they're rubbish, ROTT's a non-starter.

For me Jesse brought one solid song, three cracking tunes and one that I'd put the same category as "America" on Quarry. Overall I think ROTT is excellent. But dare mention that on the main page - or sometimes here - you'll get shouted down by people with some fairly strong opinions. Called out as a sycophant, ROTT is rubbish, how dare you like it, etc.

As much as I don't understand their dislike of Ringleader (other than those who are purely bitter, and diss Morrissey at every turn), I'm sure they don't understand why some of us rate it so highly (discounting those who blindly praise Morrissey no matter what). So I'm going to go with the "Jesse theory". ROTT is great for those of us who like Jesse's music, bad for those who don't.

If there's a kernel of truth to my theory, and Jesse's contribution to whatever they are currently recording is significant, I reckon the new album is going to be as divisive.

 

[Maurice E]

Not entirely on topic
here, but there's a number of people that rate ROTT highly, and a number that rate it as awful. Certainly far less consensus than for e.g. Vauxhall being sublime and Maladjusted being forgettable.

I'm going to speculate/guess/attribute that to whether the Moz cultists like or dislike the sound Jesse brought to the band. I'm vastly oversimplifying it I'm sure, but I'll stick to it for the sake of argument.

You Have Killed Me, The Youngest Was The Most Loved, In The Future When All's Well, On The Streets I Ran & I Just Want To See The Boy Happy. If you think they're good/great songs, that's a decent whack of the album you're going get absorbed by before even considering the other seven compositions. Likewise if you think they're rubbish, ROTT's a non-starter.

For me Jesse brought one solid song, three cracking tunes and one that I'd put the same category as "America" on Quarry. Overall I think ROTT is excellent. But dare mention that on the main page - or sometimes here - you'll get shouted down by people with some fairly strong opinions. Called out as a sycophant, ROTT is rubbish, how dare you like it, etc.

As much as I don't understand their dislike for Ringleader (other than those who are purely bitter, and diss Morrissey at every turn), I'm sure they don't understand why some of us rate it so highly (discounting those who blindly praise Morrissey no matter what). So I'm going to go with the "Jesse theory". ROTT is great for those who like Jesse's music, bad for those who don't.

If there's a kernel of truth to my theory, and Jesse's contribution to whatever they are currently recording is significant, I reckon the new album is going to be as divisive.

interesting comments. my view of ROTT is that it's kind of ok. a bit better than 'who ate me curry' but I'd still only give it a 6.5 out of 10.
my view on Jesse's songs is that it's hard to tell the difference between them and Alain's guitary stuff. the worst song on the album, (father must be killed) was one of Alain's.
I think Boz's songs generally have a different vibe about them as did Spencer Cobrin's (Wide to Receive, Lost) and Mikey's (sweetie pie/at last I'm born) but Jesse's are so similar to Alain's, I can't really understand why he seems to provoke such extreme opinions!

 

[Kewpie]

Bump for people who haven't read this.