Johnny Marr on Breaking Up the Smiths, Remastering Their Catalog - Rolling Stone

Johnny Marr on Breaking Up the Smiths, Remastering Their Catalog - Rolling Stone
'I had the foresight to see disaster looming,' says guitarist

Excerpt:

Marr accepts responsibility for disbanding the Smiths, but – perhaps surprisingly – it appears he's not entirely opposed to reuniting with his former bandmates, including lead singer Morrissey. In an interview with Rolling Stone, the guitarist looks back fondly on the Smiths' celebrated career.
 
I know many people agree with you, but for me, personally, I'd be extremely disappointed. As much as we all still love the music, the band belongs to the 1980s. The Smiths were completely unique when the band was alive. Today they're just as unique as ever-- by remaining dead, unlike the pestilential horde of zombie rock bands roaming the earth in search of filthy lucre.

Well, yes, but I believe both Johnny and Morrissey don't need the cash. However, I believe Johnny is as genuine as they come, and when he says he understands how great it would be to make people happy, I think his words mean something. I think Johnny means it.

P.
 
Well, yes, but I believe both Johnny and Morrissey don't need the cash. However, I believe Johnny is as genuine as they come, and when he says he understands how great it would be to make people happy, I think his words mean something. I think Johnny means it.

P.

You think so, Peter? I agree that Johnny seems like the sort who would genuinely care. Definitely. But I think his reservations (these unnamed "differences" between him and Morrissey) outweigh his big-heartedness. Remember, the "making others happy" factor is a double-edged sword. Fans already tell him how happy his music has made them. They're already lining up to kiss his feet and thank him for saving their lives. He can easily back off a reunion and still feel like he walks on water and pisses unicorn tears.

And...while I would concede he is saying something new in the RS interview, I've also had the impression, many times, that Johnny likes unleashing these little bombs to mess with our heads. In another interview, just linked on this site, he joked to the interviewer that it was mid-morning and he hadn't talked about The Smiths yet. After answering 17 questions about The Smiths every day of his life, he probably figured he'd have a little fun...
 
You think so, Peter? I agree that Johnny seems like the sort who would genuinely care. Definitely. But I think his reservations (these unnamed "differences" between him and Morrissey) outweigh his big-heartedness. Remember, the "making others happy" factor is a double-edged sword. Fans already tell him how happy his music has made them. They're already lining up to kiss his feet and thank him for saving their lives. He can easily back off a reunion and still feel like he walks on water and pisses unicorn tears.

And...while I would concede he is saying something new in the RS interview, I've also had the impression, many times, that Johnny likes unleashing these little bombs to mess with our heads. In another interview, just linked on this site, he joked to the interviewer that it was mid-morning and he hadn't talked about The Smiths yet. After answering 17 questions about The Smiths every day of his life, he probably figured he'd have a little fun...

Eloquent. And meaningful. I've not given up hope. I never have. Remember, life without hope is hopeless.

P.
 
All this talk about the Smiths reuniting - am I the only one who'd be happy with Johnny and Moz just writing new songs together? It doesn't have to be "The Smiths." Of course, it'll be COMPARED to the Smiths. But the focus for me is not reuniting a great rock band, but reuniting one of the greatest songwriting partnerships of the 20th century. They don't even need to tour. Hell, by this point, I'd settle just for an INTERVIEW of the two of them together. Surely THAT must happen somewhere down the road? Just to see a photoshoot of the two of them together would be awesome for me.

But yeah, back to my main point - just look at ShelleyDevoto. That was a great project, in my opinion. One album, one single, one 15 minute performance, NO BAND, no mess to clean up. Easy peasy. Take a note from Pete & Howard's book, Johnny n' Moz.
 
Eloquent. And meaningful. I've not given up hope. I never have. Remember, life without hope is hopeless.

P.

Fair enough. The Peter Pan inside me salutes you and wipes a little tear from his eye. :)

My hope is that I'm never faced with the temptation to plunk down $200 to sit in the back of Madison Square Garden watching two middle-aged men trying to convince the world that the last 25 years never happened. I'll leave that sort of tasteless buffoonery to Van Halen, Pink Floyd, and Madonna's team of plastic surgeons.

More Healers! More Morrissey!

Revere their stubbornness. Honor their pride. Savor their rejection of every offer to sell out the only genuinely beautiful art to have come along in the last thirty years in all its pristine, unsullied immortality. It's called "Years of Refusal", folks, not "Years Of Waiting Around For The Highest Bidder". :guitar:
 
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Johnny wants it so bad - I think hes ready to beg. Things needs to be "fixed" "we're too different".... sigh - spit it out boy! Why doesn't he just say "I sorry for how The Smiths ended and i'd love for Morrissey to contact me because i'd like to write with him again".

I wouldn't blame Morrissey if he was being difficult - perhaps he would only agree to work with Johnny if Johnny was just a writer on a Morrissey album - Marr has joined other bands without insisting on them being called for example "Johhny Marr and the Cribs" - so perhaps he should just join Morrissey's band and contribute songs to the new "Morrissey" album?

You have to remember than throughout 1988-90 Morrissey repeated begged Johnny to return - in the press and in song. He wrote letters to him on several occaions and got no reply, only for Marr and his new band to publically slagged off Morrissey and openly take the piss time and time again. The prevailing mood at the time was that Marr had left the limp no hoper at the right time and that Morrissey would no doubt return to his shut-in life soon whlist Marr effortlessly broke America with his haircut alone. It didn't happen that way and Johnny needs to do some humble pie backtracking to get the reunion he so clearly craves.
 
Hey there Morrissey: Sounds like your best mate still is! Sounds like Johnny is ready to give it another go and is waiting for a response from his pal. That's you Moz! You know Morrissey, that Johnny was there in the beginning and wants to be by your side for more music. The two of you together again would be past wonderful. Just think of your two albums worth of lyrics that could be put with a masters guitar playing and that record deal and all that goes with it. Opportunity is knocking at your door Morrissey. Just remember that summer of 1981 on Kings Road and that knock on your door.
 
All this talk about the Smiths reuniting - am I the only one who'd be happy with Johnny and Moz just writing new songs together? It doesn't have to be "The Smiths."
Just stumbled across Morrissey's own words from 1994:
"- Last autumn he (Johnny Marr) told us, after much pestering, that if you two ever did anything again it would be as Morrissey and Marr, not The Smiths. Would you write with him again?
- Of course, yes, but immediately I don't see the point and neither does he. So, why? Obviously I would consider it. I would love to hear his music again. And sometimes I do feel sad that he gives it to certain people who ca't write lyrics terribly well... ha ha!"
http://selectmagazinescans.monkeon.co.uk/?p=2338
 
Johnny wants it so bad - I think hes ready to beg. Things needs to be "fixed" "we're too different".... sigh - spit it out boy! Why doesn't he just say "I sorry for how The Smiths ended and i'd love for Morrissey to contact me because i'd like to write with him again".

I wouldn't blame Morrissey if he was being difficult - perhaps he would only agree to work with Johnny if Johnny was just a writer on a Morrissey album - Marr has joined other bands without insisting on them being called for example "Johhny Marr and the Cribs" - so perhaps he should just join Morrissey's band and contribute songs to the new "Morrissey" album?

You have to remember than throughout 1988-90 Morrissey repeated begged Johnny to return - in the press and in song. He wrote letters to him on several occaions and got no reply, only for Marr and his new band to publically slagged off Morrissey and openly take the piss time and time again. The prevailing mood at the time was that Marr had left the limp no hoper at the right time and that Morrissey would no doubt return to his shut-in life soon whlist Marr effortlessly broke America with his haircut alone. It didn't happen that way and Johnny needs to do some humble pie backtracking to get the reunion he so clearly craves.





Had to laugh at the phrase "... while Marr effortlessly broke America with his haircut alone..." .
 
Whatever sins were committed in the (mis)management of The Smiths, Johnny and Morrissey were equally guilty. Or, better yet, Johnny and Morrissey both made mistakes as a result of being young, inexperienced, and overwhelmed.

The details of the court case don't paint an innocent picture of Johnny. Rather, they depict someone who frequently kept himself out of the fray, or at least seemed to. I'm not bashing Johnny; as he pointed out, he was just 23 years old! But if you give Johnny a free pass, you have to extend the same to Morrissey.

johnny ended up trying to manage the smiths - all the reports from all sides seem to suggest this - but it isnt because he wanted to. it was because someone had to - and morrissey kept firing them/making their position untenable. johnny doesnt come across as someone who is difficult. theres a recent morrissey interview on youtube where he says he went through 3 managers in a year. the interviewer asks him if he's easy to manage to which morrissey replies smugly 'no.' im not sure if it is arrogance or mental instability.. maybe a bit of both.. but i doubt that johnny is equally culpable in this issues surrounding the business arrangements/disintegration of the smiths. he had just had enough. it's only the past few years that his side came out, and morrisseys erratic behavior became all the more obvious. i think johnny did well keeping it together for so long... i dont think he was a saint - or that andy/mike contributed equally... though i don't think they were 'lawn mower parts' either... that is rude, disrespectful and shows someone out of touch with reality. especially when he calls his current band 'exceptional' ... if i was being uncharitable i would say they are exceptional not for musical reasons, but because they fulfill an aging queen's fantasies appearing half naked on stage. it's a bit sad he had become this though. or left himself open to this.
 
A prediction.

Johnny will join Moz on stage for the encore at the MEN gig. Would probably be the greatest moment ever.
 
Better chance of reforming; a Morrissey/Marr reunion 'tour' or the original lineup of The Jam?

Strange things happen
Foxton played bass and contributed backing vocals on Weller's Wake Up the Nation album, released in April 2010. The songs in question were "Fast Car/Slow Traffic" and "She Speaks"
On 25 May 2010, at the Royal Albert Hall, Foxton joined Weller onstage for the first time in twenty eight years, to perform three songs, "Fast Car/Slow Traffic", "Eton Rifles", and "The Butterfly Collector"


Dave
 
He needs to shut up and just reform and do a one off gig for charity or something with Morrissey. Not that hard to arrange, and they are on speaking terms.
 
If they ever do reform, which would be the best thing ever, i'd be very dissapointed if it was just Moz and Marr and not Rourke or Joyce. It wouldn't be the same if it was just Moz and Marr for me. Also, if they did reform, it would be great if they released new music rather than just do a tour because most Smiths fans won't get to see the tour and they would miss out completely.
 
johnny ended up trying to manage the smiths - all the reports from all sides seem to suggest this - but it isnt because he wanted to. it was because someone had to - and morrissey kept firing them/making their position untenable. johnny doesnt come across as someone who is difficult. theres a recent morrissey interview on youtube where he says he went through 3 managers in a year. the interviewer asks him if he's easy to manage to which morrissey replies smugly 'no.' im not sure if it is arrogance or mental instability.. maybe a bit of both.. but i doubt that johnny is equally culpable in this issues surrounding the business arrangements/disintegration of the smiths. he had just had enough. it's only the past few years that his side came out, and morrisseys erratic behavior became all the more obvious. i think johnny did well keeping it together for so long... i dont think he was a saint - or that andy/mike contributed equally... though i don't think they were 'lawn mower parts' either... that is rude, disrespectful and shows someone out of touch with reality. especially when he calls his current band 'exceptional' ... if i was being uncharitable i would say they are exceptional not for musical reasons, but because they fulfill an aging queen's fantasies appearing half naked on stage. it's a bit sad he had become this though. or left himself open to this.

Generally I agree with you, except on one important point: Johnny knew Mike and Andy didn't have fair deals and didn't step forward and make sure things were sorted out. He was the founder, manager, and half of the band's creative engine. He had it in his power to act and he didn't.

As I wrote, that doesn't mean he was a money-grubbing back-stabber. I'm convinced Johnny is a good guy who was, at the time, simply overwhelmed by circumstances. He was 19, he'd just formed a band, and he simply wanted to write and play his music. Suddenly he had to negotiate contracts and make everyone happy, and I think he probably walked away from certain problems when he had the chance. He did what he had to do so that the problems would go away for the short-term, even when he knew they'd resurface. That's human nature. It was Andy and Mike's failure when they avoided the obvious conflict and didn't refuse to go on without a proper deal. That's human nature, too. I'm sure all of us here would have done the same.

So that brings us back to Morrissey. Some of his actions do seem shady, but ultimately everything he did in those years can easily be placed in the same category as the actions of the others. Like them, he was young, inexperienced, and overwhelmed. Like Johnny, he preferred to write and make music rather than play business manager.

The salient difference in their personalities came out later, in the court case. They reacted very differently. I guess that part's open to debate and maybe the Johnny/white hat, Morrissey/black hat dichotomy works, at least in the eyes of some people. But my point here is that nobody was blameless in the demise of The Smiths, and if we're going to be lenient in our judgment toward Marr for a certain set of reasons, I don't see why those same reasons don't apply to Morrissey as well.
 
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johnny ended up trying to manage the smiths - all the reports from all sides seem to suggest this - but it isnt because he wanted to. it was because someone had to - and morrissey kept firing them/making their position untenable. johnny doesnt come across as someone who is difficult. theres a recent morrissey interview on youtube where he says he went through 3 managers in a year. the interviewer asks him if he's easy to manage to which morrissey replies smugly 'no.' im not sure if it is arrogance or mental instability.. maybe a bit of both.. but i doubt that johnny is equally culpable in this issues surrounding the business arrangements/disintegration of the smiths. he had just had enough. it's only the past few years that his side came out, and morrisseys erratic behavior became all the more obvious. i think johnny did well keeping it together for so long... i dont think he was a saint - or that andy/mike contributed equally... though i don't think they were 'lawn mower parts' either... that is rude, disrespectful and shows someone out of touch with reality. especially when he calls his current band 'exceptional' ... if i was being uncharitable i would say they are exceptional not for musical reasons, but because they fulfill an aging queen's fantasies appearing half naked on stage. it's a bit sad he had become this though. or left himself open to this.

Morrissey never said that - it was said in court in relation to those two but not by Morrissey

and "aging queen....." - oooohhh get you! - that is certainly rude, disrespectful and shows someone out of touch with reality if you ask me
 
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All this talk about the Smiths reuniting - am I the only one who'd be happy with Johnny and Moz just writing new songs together? It doesn't have to be "The Smiths." Of course, it'll be COMPARED to the Smiths. But the focus for me is not reuniting a great rock band, but reuniting one of the greatest songwriting partnerships of the 20th century. They don't even need to tour. Hell, by this point, I'd settle just for an INTERVIEW of the two of them together. Surely THAT must happen somewhere down the road? Just to see a photoshoot of the two of them together would be awesome for me. But yeah, back to my main point - just look at ShelleyDevoto. That was a great project, in my opinion. One album, one single, one 15 minute performance, NO BAND, no mess to clean up. Easy peasy. Take a note from Pete & Howard's book, Johnny n' Moz.

You certainly aren't the only one. On the contrary - most of the fans (well, the people on this website) would actually prefer a Morrissey and Marr reunion to a full-scale Smiths thing (we've had polls on the subject). Wrongly or rightly, there's isn't a huge amount of affection for Rourke and Joyce.
And in my opinion, it's looking more likely than ever, especially if the Stone Roses reunion is a massive success, and Marr&Morrissey continue to struggle with their own solo stuff (even just getting a record deal let alone any critical/commercial success for a new album).
 
You certainly aren't the only one. On the contrary - most of the fans (well, the people on this website) would actually prefer a Morrissey and Marr reunion to a full-scale Smiths thing (we've had polls on the subject). Wrongly or rightly, there's isn't a huge amount of affection for Rourke and Joyce.
And in my opinion, it's looking more likely than ever, especially if the Stone Roses reunion is a massive success, and Marr&Morrissey continue to struggle with their own solo stuff (even just getting a record deal let alone any critical/commercial success for a new album).

I recall saying this to you once before - just because a certain percentage of fans perceive them as struggling, it doesn't mean that's how THEY (or at least Morrissey) see it, and it's not going to effect THEIR (or at least Morrissey's) self-pride in what they're currently doing.
 

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