David Cameron on Morrissey

I agree with all the above- though Dave Cameron is an Upper Middle class twit
It has been well documented that Dave the twit, spent most of his time in
80s going to toff parties, fox hunting and listening to Phil collins- no one can remember him being in to The Smiths at all. Even if he was a fan he hardly takes the words on board.
He is just a bad Blaire, whom was a bad Bill Cliton.
I am dreading life here in Britain after the election, once the cuts come in it's going to be a nightmare

Yes, he wants to overturn the ban on fox-hunting.
You see, he used to have a jolly good time getting dressed up in his riding gear, going off with his mates on their horses hunting with the hounds and then after they had killed the foxes, it was back to the manor for a sherry.

"Personally, I think the hunting ban has been a farce. I don't think it works. I think it wastes a huge amount of police time.
http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2010/04/david-cameron-on-fox-hunting/

"Well people like, if you like riding and people like riding across the countryside and it’s an opportunity, and lots of people do it together, it’s an opportunity to see parts of the countryside you never see before. That’s a lot of why people go and it’s part of something that happened, something that happened in the countryside for a very many years. "

William Astor, stepfather of the Tory leader's wife Samantha, and his close friend and fellow MP Ed Vaizey called for hunting to be legalised immediately if the Tories win the next General Election.
 
Interesting thread. :)

I'm American, so I cannot comment in any great depth on this subject, but a pro-blood sport Morrissey fan is somewhat akin to a pro-war John Lennon fan.

David Cameron is free to enjoy any music he likes, but that is one hell of an emotional disconnect... :squiffy:
 
Interesting thread. :)

I'm American, so I cannot comment in any great depth on this subject, but a pro-blood sport Morrissey fan is somewhat akin to a pro-war John Lennon fan.

David Cameron is free to enjoy any music he likes, but that is one hell of an emotional disconnect... :squiffy:

Nice picture- where be it from?
 
My avatar?

That is the Aesthetic Monkey; I believe it was published in Harper's Weekly sometime in the 1880s.

It was meant as a not-so-gentle poke at the aesthetic movement, and Oscar Wilde in particular.
 
I agree - there's nothing like a fine Victorian steel plate engraving; it was all downhill once the dailies stared using photography and photogravure.

But back to Cameron - good luck with all that. Tragically, your Tories/Conservatives would be considered raging Liberals here in the States.

Our next Presidential hopeful will probably advocate the mass-killing of animals from helicopters...
 
I agree - there's nothing like a fine Victorian steel plate engraving; it was all downhill once the dailies stared using photography and photogravure.

But back to Cameron - good luck with all that. Tragically, your Tories/Conservatives would be considered raging Liberals here in the States.

Our next Presidential hopeful will probably advocate the mass-killing of animals from helicopters...

I have given up on that topic. I am unwell at the minute thus, it gave me something to do.
 
Discussing politics is seldom a good idea when you're under the weather.

Feel better. :)

Thank you for that, your a kind soul. This topic hasn't quite got as heated as another one. It started out as a post by someone about a photo between Morrissey and the cast of Shameless and then a Chap calling himself Morrizey (yawn), attacked Moz for suddenly having vulgar tastes etc.
I responded in Morrisseys defence and the chap started throwing insults around- now that is vulgar.

Where are you based in the USA by the way?
I have traveled around your country a few times- I like it there
 
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Don't understand the aggro to be quite honest. By all accounts, Cameron's been a serious Smiths fan since boyhood. Does he need a licence from people with the appropriate left-wing credentials to be allowed to?

cheers

hahaha, I would love some "appropriate left-wing credentials".
 
I hate to say it but I would vote for Cameron before voting for GB. :(

Never thought I would utter those words but GB has left my jaw on the ground for too long with his inept ways.

If David Cameron is a Smiths fan than that has to be a good thing in some respects. At least he is more aware of the left than Maggie and JM ever were.
 
Yes, he wants to overturn the ban on fox-hunting.
You see, he used to have a jolly good time getting dressed up in his riding gear, going off with his mates on their horses hunting with the hounds and then after they had killed the foxes, it was back to the manor for a sherry.

"Personally, I think the hunting ban has been a farce. I don't think it works. I think it wastes a huge amount of police time.
http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2010/04/david-cameron-on-fox-hunting/

"Well people like, if you like riding and people like riding across the countryside and it’s an opportunity, and lots of people do it together, it’s an opportunity to see parts of the countryside you never see before. That’s a lot of why people go and it’s part of something that happened, something that happened in the countryside for a very many years. "

William Astor, stepfather of the Tory leader's wife Samantha, and his close friend and fellow MP Ed Vaizey called for hunting to be legalised immediately if the Tories win the next General Election.

I hate to say it but I would vote for Cameron before voting for GB. :(

Never thought I would utter those words but GB has left my jaw on the ground for too long with his inept ways.

If David Cameron is a Smiths fan than that has to be a good thing in some respects. At least he is more aware of the left than Maggie and JM ever were.

Have you read lainey's post?
No, Morrissey would be totally devastated if Conservatives back in charge.
I'm sure he's at least happy with Labour government which banned fox hunting.
 
I hate to say it but I would vote for Cameron before voting for GB. :(

Never thought I would utter those words but GB has left my jaw on the ground for too long with his inept ways.

If David Cameron is a Smiths fan than that has to be a good thing in some respects. At least he is more aware of the left than Maggie and JM ever were.

Thank god,you live in Oz ! :p
 
Interesting thread. :)

I'm American, so I cannot comment in any great depth on this subject, but a pro-blood sport Morrissey fan is somewhat akin to a pro-war John Lennon fan.

David Cameron is free to enjoy any music he likes, but that is one hell of an emotional disconnect... :squiffy:

Well, why, exactly? I'm sure there are literally tens of millions of John Lennon fans who, at the very least, aren't inclined to join the peace movement ("pro-war" is probably a description few people would apply to themselves). And in Morrissey's case I really don't see any important emotional disconnect. As far as I know, none of his songs are about fox hunting and only one that I can think of (Meat is Murder) is even about vegetarianism. His points of view on these points are well known, but they aren't exactly dominant features of his work.

And in any case, why is it neccessary to share an artist's personal outlook on politics (or other things for that matter) in order to be a fan? Hamsun was a nazi sympathiser, he nevertheless wrote truly great literature that has been and continues to be read by people of all political persuasions. I can't say I experience that as an emotional disconnect. Sartre perpetrated the most revolting defense of Stalin's show trials, he was still a great philosopher. I don't experience that as an emotional disconnect either. For that matter, even where the art is explicitly dominated by points of view you don't agree with, it may still work for you as art even if it doesn't work for you as politics. You can appreciate someone whose outlook you don't share for their integrity, or their commitment, or for the way their stance infuses their music with passion and energy.

It can be a very powerful aesthetic experience to encounter the negation of your own outlook in music (or literature, or etc etc). I would even go so far as to suggest that the experience of otherness is a no less frequently occurring element of finding meaning in creative expressions than the experience of self-recognition is.

Thirdly, I don't know how advisedly you use the phrase "emotional disconnect", but I think a lot of people have an emotional range that doesn't stop at the limits of their politics. Few things are completely black/white, for most people. You can sympathise with the plight of soldiers who've lost friends in combat even if you're opposed to the Iraq war. I furthermore strongly suspect that more than a few Gang of Fourish types used to hum Club Tropicana whilst showering, safely out of earshot from the world at large, and would not in the heart of their hearts have minded being transported away from drab Leeds to some tropical shore and hedonistically swill Margaritas for a few hours, though they no doubt would have felt guilty about it afterwards. :)

cheers
 
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Damn, and I was just about to get some work done. ;)

Well, why, exactly? I'm sure there are literally tens of millions of John Lennon fans who, at the very least, aren't inclined to join the peace movement ("pro-war" is probably a description few people would apply to themselves). And in Morrissey's case I really don't see any important emotional disconnect. As far as I know, none of his songs are about fox hunting and only one that I can think of (Meat is Murder) is even about vegetarianism. His points of view on these points are well known, but they aren't exactly dominant features of his work.

You'd be surprised how many people in America are "pro-war." I feel pretty confident when I say that the man who wrote Imagine (which is sung and quoted at nearly every single peace rally) is anathema to people whose world-view requires extreme aggression, belligerence and a near-complete lack of empathy. Not all Lennon fans are peaceniks, but I'd be willing to bet that there aren't too many extreme nationalists who enjoy Lennon's work.

It is true, only Meat is Murder is about vegetarianism but, like Lennon, Morrissey is a singer who stands for something. He may not sing about animal rights all that much, but he is an icon of the movement. Besides, we're not talking about someone who eats meat (plenty of Morrissey fans do that), we are talking about someone who supports blood sports.

And in any case, why is it neccessary to share an artist's personal outlook on politics (or other things for that matter) in order to be a fan? Hamsun was a nazi sympathiser, he nevertheless wrote truly great literature that has been and continues to be read by people of all political persuasions. I can't say I experience that as an emotional disconnect. Sartre perpetrated the most revolting defense of Stalin's show trials, he was still a great philosopher. I don't experience that as an emotional disconnect either. For that matter, even where the art is explicitly dominated by points of view you don't agree with, it may still work for you as art even if it doesn't work for you as politics. You can appreciate someone whose outlook you don't share for their integrity, or their commitment, or for the way their stance infuses their music with passion and energy.

I agree, it isn't necessary to share an artist's political views to enjoy their work. There is a difference, however, between political differences and moral ones, and I see blood sports as a moral issue. I always think of T.S. Eliot or Ezra Pound in cases like this. Great poets, both, but I always hit an emotional road-block when I think of their anti-Semitic tendencies, especially at the time when they were writing, and especially given their brilliance. Honestly, anyone who uses the word Kike has undermined their ability to appeal to me emotionally. Call me reactionary or simplistic, but I cannot get around that. One should be able to separate the artist from the art, but that is a bridge too far.

As for philosophy, that is an entirely different matter: I expect all great philosophers to be mad.

It can be a very powerful aesthetic experience to encounter the negation of your own outlook in music (or literature, or etc etc). I would even go so far as to suggest that the experience of otherness is a no less frequently occurring element of finding meaning in creative expressions than the experience of self-recognition is.

I agree, absolutely. I seek out aesthetic experiences that challenge me, and shake-up any comfort that I may have left. The experience of otherness is essential to being a whole, functioning person. This is how we grow.

However, there are some absolute moral lines that I cannot cross, and animal cruelty is one of them. There are few things I find as reprehensible as the exploitation, torture and killing of animals for sport or financial gain. I have friends who have hunted (although none will admit to hunting now), and these are people I'm fond of. However, I cannot participate in any enjoyment of that pastime, no matter how many times I've willingly listened to their passionate arguments.

Thirdly, I don't know how advisedly you use the phrase "emotional disconnect", but I think a lot of people have an emotional range that doesn't stop at the limits of their politics. Few things are completely black/white, for most people. You can sympathise with the plight of soldiers who've lost friends in combat even if you're opposed to the Iraq war. I furthermore strongly suspect that more than a few Gang of Fourish types used to hum Club Tropicana whilst showering, safely out of earshot from the world at large, and would not in the heart of their hearts have minded being transported away from drab Leeds to some tropical shore and hedonistically swill Margaritas for a few hours, though they no doubt would have felt guilty about it afterwards. :)

Again, this isn't politics, this is morality - two entirely different things.

Music is the most emotional art form. Literature appeals so strongly to the intellect, and painting and sculpture bridge the divide, but music goes straight to the soul.

If I enjoy a person's music enough, and I bother to learn something about them (which is actually somewhat rare), I'm often pleasantly surprised to find that they are both morally and politically very much in tune (literally, you could say) with my beliefs. This is not to say that I cannot enjoy the work of someone across the political divide, but it just doesn't happen all that often. There is a lack of resonance.

So, again, David Cameron is free to enjoy Morrissey as much as he likes, but to me there is an emotional disconnect between advocating for blood sports and being a fan (not just a casual listener) but a fan of someone whose core moral beliefs run counter to his own.
 
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I don't think i've seen it mentioned in this thread, but Morrissey has mentioned Cameron before.

At the Ally Pally gig last year, he said something along the lines of, "Will someone tell David Cameron to stop killing stags?".

So I think it's safe to assume that Mozzer isn't a particular fan of his. Cameron is simply an utter twat imo, and it will be disastrous if he gets in to power on May 6th.
 
We won't vote conservative
because we never have
 
I hate to say it but I would vote for Cameron before voting for GB. :(

Never thought I would utter those words but GB has left my jaw on the ground for too long with his inept ways.

If David Cameron is a Smiths fan than that has to be a good thing in some respects. At least he is more aware of the left than Maggie and JM ever were.

:sick:

I'd never ever ever ever vote Tory. They want to bring blood sports back too, absolutely f***ing ridiculous. GB isn't the best but I'd rather him than that posh twat Cameron.
 
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