Can men and women be friends?

[CrystalGeezer]

I make friends all the time with men. But many want to take it a step further. I mean the ones around here. Not online. Well, some of those want to be more than friends too. How do you have male friends without them wanting it to turn romantic? Even my old roommate, who started off as a friend, wanted more. I only wanted to be friends. I felt pressured after a while and uncomfortable. I moved out. Must be because they are also physically attracted to me.

Maybe your male friends don't find you attractive. (Not that some men wouldn't.) Just saying. I mean... they may have seen those unshaven legs of yours and decided they did not want to be anything more than friends. They see you as one of the guys. I am much more delicate and feminine than you. Guys see me as girlfriend material. Not a buddy. They want to f*** me. Not punch me in the arm.

I'm close with his family. He understands that a f*** would ruin something deeper and more meaningful. A true friendship doesn't rely on shaved legs and f***ability. It seems to me that you view yourself as quite the seductress which means you go into the relationship manipulating from day one. He and I just love getting drunk and playing songs on the jukebox, we're never trying to conquer one another. But thanks for...yet again...painting an image of me being gross and ugly. You really must be as lovely as you project yourself to be.

 

[Drew a swallow]

You mean they have access to more socially acceptable tools to make them still look good as they age? Such as hair dye and makeup? Didn't that whole metrosexual movement change things a bit though?

Yes that's what I mean. I'm very uncomfy about "metrosexuality". Maybe that makes me or turns me into a stupidly "I'm going to open a door for a woman" type man. Hmmmmmmmmm!

 

[realitybites]

Yes that's what I mean. I'm very uncomfy about "metrosexuality". Maybe that makes me or turns me into a stupidly "I'm going to open a door for a woman" type man. Hmmmmmmmmm!

So you want to maintain a level of traditional masculinity? Some men who don't really over-groom or dye their hair are very rugged and masculine and quite handsome. Maybe that is the look that will work for you. I have seen pics of you. You are very handsome. I think you are aging nicely.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Here's a funny one of us in WeHo one year for Halloween. I went as a douche and he went as Mexican Mick Jagger. We were waiting to get on a bus that was PACKED! I barely fit my box on board.

 

[Drew a swallow]

So you want to maintain a level of traditional masculinity? Some men who don't really over-groom or dye their hair are very rugged and masculine and quite handsome. Maybe that is the look that will work for you. I have seen pics of you. You are very handsome. I think you are aging nicely.

Thanks, but I'm not liking getting old. This is going into a whole new arena of me-ness. No, I'm very UN-MASculine. I'm going to be 39 in a few months and...grey hairs are appearing etc.... I think my lovely daughter is keeping me sane!

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Thanks, but I'm not liking getting old. This is going into a whole new arena of me-ness. No, I'm very UN-MASculine. I'm going to be 39 in a few months and...grey hairs are appearing etc.... I think my lovely daughter is keeping me sane!

Jon's in his late 40's and needs readers soooooo bad. But he won't get them because it's admitting defeat to age. I try to tell him that it looks ridiculous when he's holding his phone way out in front of him squinting and the type is set to grandma mode, but he refuses to get glasses. It's stupid. Why fear age? Embrace it.

 

[Drew a swallow]

Jon's in his late 40's and needs readers soooooo bad. But he won't get them because it's admitting defeat to age. I try to tell him that it looks ridiculous when he's holding his phone way out in front of him squinting and the type is set to grandma mode, but he refuses to get glasses. It's stupid. Why fear age? Embrace it.

Who's Jon? Your Beau? Yeah - I know what you're saying, but I'm not ready to embrace it quite yet. I should though. Boo hoo and all that...!

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Who's Jon? Your Beau? Yeah - I know what you're saying, but I'm not ready to embrace it quite yet. I should though. Boo hoo and all that...!

Jon is my friend in the pictures. *tap, tap...is this thing on?*

 

[Drew a swallow]

Jon is my friend in the pictures. *tap, tap...is this thing on?*

Yes, it's on. Sorry but I'm only intermittent on here.

 

[TheBoyWithTheDragonTattoo]

I love the idea that men and women can be friends but I'm not sure it's possible. Well, it's possible but not likely in my opinion. Depends on how you meet. If you're forced together- like cube mates at work or neighbors in an apartment complex then yes it's possible because you were thrown together by chance/circumstance. If one of you made any effort whatsoever to meet the other than no because there was some initial attraction there to begin with on at least one side of the equation. I mean there are exceptions of course but I don't think it's possible 98% of the time. In the grand scheme of things a 2% success rate means there are lots of male/female friendships out there just because of the sheer volume of people on this planet. Pragmatically, would you undertake anything that had a 98% failure rate? Probably not in business but in this case, yes, because humans hunger for meaningful connections. That's why this question is still even debated. In the brain/heart battle the brain (the pragmatic voice) beats itself by tipping the balance in favor of trying. BRAIN: "This is a bad idea- stop now. You know how this is going to go" SCORE-Brain 1/Heart 0. Heart: "But she's really cool and cute and funny! We can be friends- I'll just keep it in my pants. I trust you to keep me in check brain." SCORE- Brain1/Heart 1. Brain: "That's true. I'm rational and I have willpower. Plus, it's just stupid to eliminate 50% of the population from the pool of potential meaningful friendships. I mean, that's not rational, right?" SCORE- Brain 1/Heart 2. Game, set, match. The heart is a slippery one and tricks the brain every single time.

 

[Iona Mink]

I think they can. One of my longest enduring friendships is with a man. He is my brutha from another mutha. And to him, I'm the big sister. Admittedly it did start out with him trying to pull me one night but after we realised it was not going to happen we became firm friends.

There is no sexual tension and believe it or not, he hasn't fallen in love with me. I know, it's surprising to hear but I am completely resistable....

 

[realitybites]

I think they can. One of my longest enduring friendships is with a man. He is my brutha from another mutha. And to him, I'm the big sister. Admittedly it did start out with him trying to pull me one night but after we realised it was not going to happen we became firm friends.

There is no sexual tension and believe it or not, he hasn't fallen in love with me. I know, it's surprising to hear but I am completely resistable....

Unlike me, right. Kidding.

 

[realitybites]

My problem (or one of them) is that I adore men. I really get along with them very well. Not in a hangout, let's go watch a game way. They have their guy friends for that. Actually, most of the men I have been friends with have not been into sports. No, they aren't into shopping either. But neither am I. We connect on an intellectual level. The friendship usually starts when we begin discussing some topic of interest. Religion or philosophy or movies or music.

I had lots of female friends when I was young. But then I started moving all over the map. I met a few at the university. But most of my good friends since adulthood, have been men. I'm including my boyfriends in this list. My boyfriends never liked me hanging out with my male friends. There was some jealousy there. One time my fiance was quite upset, because while he was at work, my best male friend and I went into downtown Tampa to get my navel pierced. When I got home and showed him, I expected a "Wow, that is hot," reply. But no. He was silent. My friend left. I asked my partner why he was mad. He said because I didn't tell him I was getting it done. He would have wanted to be the one to go with me, had he known about my intent. Was it wrong what I did? It did not feel like it was at the time.

This same friend and I remained close all through my college years. He came to my graduation. Flew down from NYC. By this time, my fiance and I had called off the marriage. My friend revealed to me he wanted to be more than just friends. That he was in love with me. I tried to be open to it. He was/is a wonderful person. But I really couldn't see him as more than a friend. It is amazing how the attraction/chemistry is either there or it isn't. Why does one person feel it and not the other?

How can arranged marriages work? Maybe they don't expect or anticipate bells and fireworks? It isn't what those unions about? Interestingly, in those cultures with arranged marriages, the sexes are mostly segregated in all areas of life. This is changing a little, but not much. So both women and men have strong bonds with the same sex. Maybe having these same sex friendships make these marriages tolerable? I wonder if not only do these marriages lack passion but friendship as well? Men and women aren't encouraged or allowed to be friends in a great many cultures around the world, even in these modern times. Why? Is it that, men and women can't be friends stereotype? Do they think sex will always get in the way? Or is it because they think women are not suitable to emotionally and intellectually interact with men in meaningful ways--for the men, of course? I have a sad feeling it is both. Come on people. Join the modern age. I am not a relativist. Some ways of doing things are better than others. I don't adhere to the live and let live policy, when it comes to behaviors. Stoning, dowry deaths? Never OK. Never.


Back on topic...

A female friend of mine shared an idea with me... that we are attracted to people who can heal our childhood wounds. Maybe I would be that person for my friend I mentioned... and he intuitively sensed this. But he could never be that person for me?

 

[realitybites]

I love the idea that men and women can be friends but I'm not sure it's possible. Well, it's possible but not likely in my opinion. Depends on how you meet. If you're forced together- like cube mates at work or neighbors in an apartment complex then yes it's possible because you were thrown together by chance/circumstance. If one of you made any effort whatsoever to meet the other than no because there was some initial attraction there to begin with on at least one side of the equation. I mean there are exceptions of course but I don't think it's possible 98% of the time. In the grand scheme of things a 2% success rate means there are lots of male/female friendships out there just because of the sheer volume of people on this planet. Pragmatically, would you undertake anything that had a 98% failure rate? Probably not in business but in this case, yes, because humans hunger for meaningful connections. That's why this question is still even debated. In the brain/heart battle the brain (the pragmatic voice) beats itself by tipping the balance in favor of trying. BRAIN: "This is a bad idea- stop now. You know how this is going to go" SCORE-Brain 1/Heart 0. Heart: "But she's really cool and cute and funny! We can be friends- I'll just keep it in my pants. I trust you to keep me in check brain." SCORE- Brain1/Heart 1. Brain: "That's true. I'm rational and I have willpower. Plus, it's just stupid to eliminate 50% of the population from the pool of potential meaningful friendships. I mean, that's not rational, right?" SCORE- Brain 1/Heart 2. Game, set, match. The heart is a slippery one and tricks the brain every single time.

This is interesting. So if a pursuit takes place without a payoff, the target will never be able to be a friend? Think it works both ways? Think a woman who came on to you, for which you declined, could be considered a friend after that? Could you be friends with her? Could she just see you as a friend, or would that always be a barrier for her? I mean, is it the same for men and women?

Your insight sheds light on my predicament. After the friend makes the initiative into more than that territory, it seems the friendship dissolves. They state (almost in the same exact words, actually) it is too painful to be around me. So they end it. And I end up devastated. OK that is an exaggeration. Not devastated. But quite ruffled and jaded and less optimistic about humanity and love and friendship in general. I want friends. Male friends. Not just lovers. I also have had this experience quite recently... a few times actually... where the man pursues me. I tell him that he is great. But I just want to be friends. I am not interested in having a lover/boyfriend. They respond with this, I already have lots of friends, I don't need friends. I cry inside, thinking, but I don't. And I DO need friends

I want friends. Male friends. Not just lovers. Anyone? Anyone? I've moved too many times. That has been my biggest barrier to having long-lasting real life, in person friendships.

On the flip side, can I be friends with a man I am attracted to? Will my desire for him get in the way of the friendship? Yes, it seems so. But I think it has more to do with, that I think he'd make a great lover but not so great of a friend. Maybe the attraction is there... for some reason... but we really don't have enough in common to sustain a long lasting friendship?

As far as women go, I love women. But they are much harder to befriend. I feel I have a lot in common with some women, but not so much with the general population. I never enjoyed the let's do lunch and talk about our husbands and kids thing. I need intellectual stimulation. I'd rather be alone, if I cannot get it in the company of others.

 

[Deleted member 1074]

Can men and women be friends? I mean, really good friends or best friends?

Not usually.

 

[Steve Croce]

Can men and women be friends? I mean, really good friends or best friends? Or, is it always the case that at least one will fall for the other? Is there always going to be a sexual tension there? Or not?

What can make these types of friendships successful?

Do you have a best friend of the opposite sex? What makes it work for you?

I have a very good friend named Jen. We're not quite "besties", but I think that's only because we don't get to see each other enough.

We're finally to the point where people have stopped accusing us of secretly dating each other and accept we're just friends.

The guy she is seeing compares us to Patton Oswalt and Brian Posehn.

I guess we both make it work because neither of us is romantically interested in the other person, but our brains have fun together.

As far as we're concerned, neither one of us has sexual organs. I suppose it helps that I have abandoned sex for recreation...

 

[realitybites]

I have a very good friend named Jen. We're not quite "besties", but I think that's only because we don't get to see each other enough.

We're finally to the point where people have stopped accusing us of secretly dating each other and accept we're just friends.

The guy she is seeing compares us to Patton Oswalt and Brian Posehn.

I guess we both make it work because neither of us is romantically interested in the other person, but our brains have fun together.

As far as we're concerned, neither one of us has sexual organs. I suppose it helps that I have abandoned sex for recreation...

This is sweet. Glad you have such a great female friend. Sounds like I just need to steer clear of the horndogs. Believe it or not, this is much easier to do online. There is a barrier there. That is until they ask you to cross it and send pics.

 

[troubleluvsme]

Great thread!
This is something I've debated with people, especially my father, for years. Until a few years ago, I had always believed that men and women could be "just friends." I've come to realize that it's nearly impossible...for all of the reasons you've stated. Every one.

I think when I have NOT fallen for my male friends, it was because I was involved with someone at the time. So I put this artificial barrier there. But they almost always fell for me. So the friendship was unsustainable. Maybe if we both were involved it could be possible. I honestly don't think I have ever been in that situation. If we both were single and fell for one another, then no harm done. But that seems to only happen in the movies--like When Harry Met Sally. Seems like IRL, someone always gets hurt and experiences unrequited love.

Every male best friend I have had has fallen in love with me. I loved them as well, but not in a sexual or romantic way. Looking back on it now, it wasn't always because I was involved at the time, that I did not fall for them as well. They just were missing something. They made great friends though. Maybe I was too stupid or picky back then. Let go of some great guys. I think that was definitely the case. I bet they are all happily married now.

I want friends. Male friends. Not just lovers. Anyone? Anyone? I've moved too many times. That has been my biggest barrier to having long-lasting real life, in person friendships.

On the flip side, can I be friends with a man I am attracted to? Will my desire for him get in the way of the friendship? Yes, it seems so. But I think it has more to do with, that I think he'd make a great lover but not so great of a friend. Maybe the attraction is there... for some reason... but we really don't have enough in common to sustain a long lasting friendship?

As far as women go, I love women. But they are much harder to befriend. I feel I have a lot in common with some women, but not so much with the general population. I never enjoyed the let's do lunch and talk about our husbands and kids thing. I need intellectual stimulation. I'd rather be alone, if I cannot get it in the company of others.

You and I seem to share many of the same predicaments!
At least you have a good reason for not having too many women friends. I've lived in the same place all of my life...and have very few.

 

[realitybites]

Great thread!
This is something I've debated with people, especially my father, for years. Until a few years ago, I had always believed that men and women could be "just friends." I've come to realize that it's nearly impossible...for all of the reasons you've stated. Every one.

You and I seem to share many of the same predicaments!
At least you have a good reason for not having too many women friends. I've lived in the same place all of my life...and have very few.

I am glad that my thoughts resonate with you.

That is another good question, why is it so hard for (some) of us ladies to make and sustain female friendships?

When I was 14-15, I had a group of girlfriends in Akron Ohio. We were inseparable. I miss those days. It was like Sex and the City, but better, because we were young with no real responsibilities. It was all about music, and clothes, and boys, and being silly, and just having fun. I know I will never have that again. Though... my mom did develop a very solid group of girlfriends over the last fifteen years. They share a common interest, quilting. So maybe there is still hope for me.

Anyhow, yeah girlfriends... they are a rare and precious thing.

 

[troubleluvsme]

I am glad that my thoughts resonate with you.

That is another good question, why is it so hard for (some) of us ladies to make and sustain female friendships?

When I was 14-15, I had a group of girlfriends in Akron Ohio. We were inseparable. I miss those days. It was like Sex and the City, but better, because we were young with no real responsibilities. It was all about music, and clothes, and boys, and being silly, and just having fun. I know I will never have that again. Though... my mom did develop a very solid group of girlfriends over that last fifteen years. They share a common interest, quilting. So maybe there is still hope for me.

Anyhow, yeah girlfriends... they are a rare and precious thing.

Your Mom is fortunate to have done that.
Is everyone too "busy" to have close friends nowadays?
I never make resolutions, but maybe I will be more conscious this year about trying to develop a closer group of girlfriends...