Break up the family

Verso

Well-Known Member
Yes, but that’s not what I’m saying.

I’m saying it would be interesting to know how much of the lyrics that ended up on Viva Hate were actually written before the Smiths split.

I’m thinking quite a lot of it was.
Same, I'm inclined to believe that there was significant "notebook" spillover given what we know about Bengali in Platforms, Margaret on the Guillotine, etc.
 

Oh my

Enough! or Too much
The way in which some people understands the songs by Morrissey:
Margaret on the Guillotine is actually about Johnny Marr and a fantasy about beheading him.
Ouija Board is an attempt to bring back Johnny Marr.
He knows I'd love to see him... He wants to see Johnny Marr.
Disappointed... he is disappointed with Johnny Marr.
Driving your girlfriend home... the girlfriend is Johnny Marr.
You are the one for me, fatty.... the fat one is Johnny Marr.
Certain people I know... he obviously knows Johnny Marr.
I am hated for loving... yes, it's about loving Johnny Marr.
Dagenham Dave... Dave is Johnny Marr.
I have forgiven Jesus... of course, Jesus is Johnny Marr.
Mexico... does it sound like a song about Mexico? No, it's about Johnny Marr.
Spent the day in bed... with Johnny Marr, of course.

Same thing for the other songs. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
The way in which some people understands the songs by Morrissey:
Margaret on the Guillotine is actually about Johnny Marr and a fantasy about beheading him.
Ouija Board is an attempt to bring back Johnny Marr.
He knows I'd love to see him... He wants to see Johnny Marr.
Disappointed... he is disappointed with Johnny Marr.
Driving your girlfriend home... the girlfriend is Johnny Marr.
You are the one for me, fatty.... the fat one is Johnny Marr.
Certain people I know... he obviously knows Johnny Marr.
I am hated for loving... yes, it's about loving Johnny Marr.
Dagenham Dave... Dave is Johnny Marr.
I have forgiven Jesus... of course, Jesus is Johnny Marr.
Mexico... does it sound like a song about Mexico? No, it's about Johnny Marr.
Spent the day in bed... with Johnny Marr, of course.

Same thing for the other songs. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Oh speaking of, I read the best mature Morrissey/Marr fan fic. Here's a taste:

Johnny’s arms slipped around my shoulders, a perfect fit, and rested his cheek against my hair, humming something soft. My hands moved before I could think better of it, and I clutched at him with a childish desperation. It wouldn’t keep him here of course, nothing could, but I held on to him all the same.

“C’mon, come sit with me, yeah?” Johnny whispered, and I nodded, let him lead me over to the couch across the room. He went to shut and lock the door, sealing us in, our fate decided, and I held a hand out for him to grab, knowing it’d make it easier for him to straddle my lap. He paused at the sight of it, his head tilted in consideration. “What if I just wanted to talk?”

“You don’t,” was my reply, shrugging.

 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

The Courage to Get on People's Tits
Yes, but that’s not what I’m saying.

I’m saying it would be interesting to know how much of the lyrics that ended up on Viva Hate were actually written before the Smiths split.

I’m thinking quite a lot of it was.
Morrissey has stated though that his approach for the lyrics on Viva Hate was different than when he was writing in The Smiths (and personally I think it shows a lot).

"It was a very peculiar time for me, making that record so suddenly, so unexpectedly, and I wanted to try something different. Because of the particular status I have, where many people concentrate quite scientifically over every comma, I reached a stage where I wanted to be entirely spontaneous without physically writing the words down and memorising them. Rather, just step into the vocal booth and sing it as it comes."

To me there's a different feeling to his writing on Viva Hate, but I do believe certain fragments and phrases existed before. We actually know that for sure for Bengali In Platforms.

As for the question why he never includes it in his favourite albums: He was already critical about it before it was released and in interviews said he wasn't satisfied with it, said it wasn't better than Strangeways and that it was very rushed.

15 years later he still said that the break-up of The Smiths could have killed him at the time and with Viva Hate having been recorded before the corpse was even cold, for him it has to be connected to that tense and emotionally challenging time forever.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
The way in which some people understands the songs by Morrissey:
Margaret on the Guillotine is actually about Johnny Marr and a fantasy about beheading him.
Ouija Board is an attempt to bring back Johnny Marr.
He knows I'd love to see him... He wants to see Johnny Marr.
Disappointed... he is disappointed with Johnny Marr.

Driving your girlfriend home... the girlfriend is Johnny Marr.
You are the one for me, fatty.... the fat one is Johnny Marr.
Certain people I know... he obviously knows Johnny Marr.
I am hated for loving... yes, it's about loving Johnny Marr.
Dagenham Dave... Dave is Johnny Marr.
I have forgiven Jesus... of course, Jesus is Johnny Marr.
Mexico... does it sound like a song about Mexico? No, it's about Johnny Marr.
Spent the day in bed... with Johnny Marr, of course.

Same thing for the other songs. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
I'd say "Yes" to both of those, but none of the rest. :LOL:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Same, I'm inclined to believe that there was significant "notebook" spillover given what we know about Bengali in Platforms, Margaret on the Guillotine, etc.
Thank god Johnny left before the Smiths were tainted by Bengali in Platforms!
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><><><><>
Morrissey has stated though that his approach for the lyrics on Viva Hate was different than when he was writing in The Smiths (and personally I think it shows a lot).

"It was a very peculiar time for me, making that record so suddenly, so unexpectedly, and I wanted to try something different. Because of the particular status I have, where many people concentrate quite scientifically over every comma, I reached a stage where I wanted to be entirely spontaneous without physically writing the words down and memorising them. Rather, just step into the vocal booth and sing it as it comes."

To me there's a different feeling to his writing on Viva Hate, but I do believe certain fragments and phrases existed before. We actually know that for sure for Bengali In Platforms.

As for the question why he never includes it in his favourite albums: He was already critical about it before it was released and in interviews said he wasn't satisfied with it, said it wasn't better than Strangeways and that it was very rushed.

15 years later he still said that the break-up of The Smiths could have killed him at the time and with Viva Hate having been recorded before the corpse was even cold, for him it has to be connected to that tense and emotionally challenging time forever.

Yes totally, as I previously said, it would be silly to think that the split up had no influence on his state of mind.

Improvisation or being spontaneous is strange, even if one
is not using something that’s been labored over, the artist is still drawing from themselves from thoughts and ideas that are usually
worked out in the mind, more or less. I mean it’s difficult to divorce oneself from self influence or influence in general if that was his intention, to be free. You can get a bit closer to that by using the cut up technique, but even then the outcome is usually chosen and shaped to fit the song, in regards to words and the backing. Though his approach on Viva is a bit looser. Anyway, I digress.


But yes it is a noticeable change, and keeps changing through the years more or less.

Though when Sam releases the four volume set of Morrissey’s notebooks one day....
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

The Courage to Get on People's Tits
Yes totally, as I previously said, it would be silly to think that the split up had no influence on his state of mind.

Improvisation or being spontaneous is strange, even if one
is not using something that’s been labored over, the artist is still drawing from themselves from thoughts and ideas that are usually
worked out in the mind, more or less. I mean it’s difficult to divorce oneself from self influence or influence in general if that was his intention, to be free. You can get a bit closer to that by using the cut up technique, but even then the outcome is usually chosen and shaped to fit the song, in regards to words and the backing. Though his approach on Viva is a bit looser. Anyway, I digress.


But yes it is a noticeable change, and keeps changing through the years more or less.

Though when Sam releases the four volume set of Morrissey’s notebooks one day....
Sometimes, when I'm in the right mood, listening to Viva Hate, I find myself thinking it's the best thing he's ever done, lyrically.
I really wonder what he could have created had he let that dog off the chain more often.
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><><><><>
Sometimes, when I'm in the right mood, listening to Viva Hate, I find myself thinking it's the best thing he's ever done, lyrically.
I really wonder what he could have created had he let that dog off the chain more often.

that record was my first love
 

Dingoatemybabby

Well-Known Member
Oh speaking of, I read the best mature Morrissey/Marr fan fic. Here's a taste:

Johnny’s arms slipped around my shoulders, a perfect fit, and rested his cheek against my hair, humming something soft. My hands moved before I could think better of it, and I clutched at him with a childish desperation. It wouldn’t keep him here of course, nothing could, but I held on to him all the same.

“C’mon, come sit with me, yeah?” Johnny whispered, and I nodded, let him lead me over to the couch across the room. He went to shut and lock the door, sealing us in, our fate decided, and I held a hand out for him to grab, knowing it’d make it easier for him to straddle my lap. He paused at the sight of it, his head tilted in consideration. “What if I just wanted to talk?”

“You don’t,” was my reply, shrugging.


Oh my...
 
Top Bottom