Bengali in Platforms

[Vauxhall95]

One aspect of the "controversy" over the NME article which I find particularly disturbing is the use of Morrissey's lyrics to paint him as a racist. It really pisses me off that there is seemingly no separation between art and the artist. In an interview for the YATQ tour, Morrissey said something to the effect, "I think it is vital as a writer to document absolutely everything. Not just the good days and times but the bad as well. Everything."

Music is an art and should be treated as such. For instance, Morrissey is not excused of being a child killer/kidnapper (or advocating this position) despite writing a song like "Ambitious Outsiders," so why should his other lyrics be given any more weight?

To me it seems clearly to promote someone else's agenda. I believe the worst thing that could come from this is lesser artists feeling the need to self-censor themselves.

 

[suparni]

One aspect of the "controversy" over the NME article which I find particularly disturbing is the use of Morrissey's lyrics to paint him as a racist. It really pisses me off that there is seemingly no separation between art and the artist. In an interview for the YATQ tour, Morrissey said something to the effect, "I think it is vital as a writer to document absolutely everything. Not just the good days and times but the bad as well. Everything."

Music is an art and should be treated as such. For instance, Morrissey is not excused of being a child killer/kidnapper (or advocating this position) despite writing a song like "Ambitious Outsiders," so why should his other lyrics be given any more weight?

To me it seems clearly to promote someone else's agenda. I believe the worst thing that could come from this is lesser artists feeling the need to self-censor themselves.

I think the reason that there is no separation between art and artist - in this case - is because Morrissey is so extraordinarily gifted in seeing and expressing, or channeling, or writing a point of view.

So much so that people get confused - failing to see that he is in fact so very good at what he does (writing) - that they are utterly convinced that it must be a heartfelt point of view that he has been harboring for years and years - otherwise how on earth could he express it so perfectly and passionately and convincingly?

 

[suparni]

Oh and Bengali - well I am sure we have all felt that we do not belong here at all - at some point. I know I have felt like I am from some other planet many many times in my life - not at all fitting in. I don't think it's a condemnation of the Bengali at all. I think it's in fact sympathetic and beautiful. To me, I identify with the Bengali in the song more than I do anybody telling him to go home. I find it much more focused on how the Bengali is feeling - much more concern seems to fall there for me. I think Morrissey appeals to those who feel "foreign" in this world and perhaps even in their own skin (at least from time to time) and I very much feel he is addressing a feeling of being an outsider using this structure.

Life is hard enough when you belong here...
so just shelve the plan of trying to fit in altogether... its not gonna work - you will never fit in... esp not playing by these rules.

gosh... I don't have to be Bengali to identify with that feeling. lord knows.

 

[Worm]

One aspect of the "controversy" over the NME article which I find particularly disturbing is the use of Morrissey's lyrics to paint him as a racist. It really pisses me off that there is seemingly no separation between art and the artist. In an interview for the YATQ tour, Morrissey said something to the effect, "I think it is vital as a writer to document absolutely everything. Not just the good days and times but the bad as well. Everything."

Music is an art and should be treated as such. For instance, Morrissey is not excused of being a child killer/kidnapper (or advocating this position) despite writing a song like "Ambitious Outsiders," so why should his other lyrics be given any more weight?

To me it seems clearly to promote someone else's agenda. I believe the worst thing that could come from this is lesser artists feeling the need to self-censor themselves.

I like what you said and I agree in spirit, but Morrissey's more provocative lyrics can't just be wished away by invoking his right to poetic license. I said that about "National Front Disco" recently and in the case of "Bengali In Platforms", did you notice in the interview that he told Tim Jonze that he was writing about someone in particular? Not "I was writing in a voice" but "I knew someone like that".

There's no getting around the disturbing lines in that song. "Life is hard enough when you belong here" is a troubling line because Morrissey is saying this about someone who wants to assimilate. Come to London and try and dress the part, even if you look ridiculous-- you still don't belong.

I hope I don't have to reiterate that I don't think Morrissey is a racist, but, y'know, to be safe: Morrissey is NOT a racist. But you have to approach his personality as revealed in song and print knowing there are going to be difficult parts you can't gloss over.

 

[sid james]

There's no getting around the disturbing lines in that song. "Life is hard enough when you belong here" is a troubling line because Morrissey is saying this about someone who wants to assimilate.

I don't know why it's so disturbing. Doubtless if I jetted off for a better life in Bangladesh I wouldn't 'belong' there either.

To me the whole tone of the song is one of sympathy for someone (not EVERY Bangali as some people try to read) who yearned for a better life in England, came and tried to fit in, and found it's just as shite over here. It's hardly an anrgy message of hate - 'Don't blame me, dont hate me - just because I am the one to tell you...'

Personally it's one of my favourite songs off of 'Viva Hate', and I'd love for Moz to brazen it out, reclaim it and play it live, but I doubt that will happen in a million years...not unless he gets a Bengali backing band!

I'd love to know what any...ahem...'ethnic minority' (god I hate that phrase) Morrissey fans feel about that song, as the only people I've heard get wound up about it seem to be white...

 

[Assassin]

It took a while to grow on me, but I'd say it's one of the best off Viva Hate.
I find 'the line' to be quite amusing poignant sad at the same time. Which is great.

I also see no racism.

 

[Corrissey]

I don't think it's a condemnation of the Bengali at all. I think it's in fact sympathetic and beautiful. I find it much more focused on how the Bengali is feeling. I think Morrissey appeals to those who feel "foreign" in this world and perhaps even in their own skin (at least from time to time) and I very much feel he is addressing a feeling of being an outsider using this structure.

Well said & agreed to.
I've never looked at this song as anything less than empathetic. I wish others would hear it for what it is and not try to make something out of nothing. Morrissey is worldy in so many ways, his songs are for and about 'everyone' -he's great at understanding and feeling others emotions and translating them into gorgeous songs. I wonder (I know they are 'controversial'), has anyone bitched about him making fun of the handicapped and the disabled too in November Spawned a Monster and Mute Witness?

"Not everybody is absolutely stupid. Why on earth would I be racist. What would I be trying to achieve?" -Moz in 'The importance of being Morrissey'

It's hardly an angry message of hate - 'Don't blame me, dont hate me - just because I am the one to tell you...'

Personally it's one of my favourite songs off of 'Viva Hate', and I'd love for Moz to brazen it out, reclaim it and play it live, but I doubt that will happen in a million years...not unless he gets a Bengali backing band!

Yes, it's hardly a hateful message. I'd sooo love to hear it live too.

 

[cinnamon]

I think it's fair to say that every Morrissey-fan has a different opinion and interpretation of the lyrics. For me the beauty of so many Moz lyrics is the fact that they challenge you think. Morrissey has never avoided the more controversial topics and for this I respect him. In fact, I would be rather disappointed if he felt the need to censor himself. For this reason I have always felt that he is encouraging, and sometimes provoking, his listeners to contemplate on the subject more deeply. Having said that, I do admit I might not be able to look at the lyrics objectively as I am quite in awe of the man.

 

[Danny_]

To be honest I just think this song is just an example of bad writing. He was trying to make a sympathetic statement by being ironic, but he just didn't do it well enough. He got the tone slightly wrong. Perhaps he was just a bit too glib.

But the critics will look for a malicious meaning in an artist's work before they will just consider the writer had an off day.

 

[suparni]

Well said & agreed to.
I've never looked at this song as anything less than empathetic. I wish others would hear it for what it is and not try to make something out of nothing. Morrissey is worldy in so many ways, his songs are for and about 'everyone' -he's great at understanding and feeling others emotions and translating them into gorgeous songs. I wonder (I know they are 'controversial'), has anyone bitched about him making fun of the handicapped and the disabled too in November Spawned a Monster and Mute Witness?

"Not everybody is absolutely stupid. Why on earth would I be racist. What would I be trying to achieve?" -Moz in 'The importance of being Morrissey'



Yes, it's hardly a hateful message. I'd sooo love to hear it live too.

on think on some level Corrissey and I are soul sisters... at least on some level... somehow.

 

[vivabob]

is it not the feeling of being an outsider that is the center of the song , its not about race , religion or creed .. its about not fitting in , morrissey might not be black but he can still relate to not fitting in

if the song had been sun by chuck d would it be classsed as being raciist ? , i dont think so

 

[Worm]

To be honest I just think this song is just an example of bad writing. He was trying to make a sympathetic statement by being ironic, but he just didn't do it well enough. He got the tone slightly wrong. Perhaps he was just a bit too glib.

Bingo.

To the other posts:

I like the song too. Love Vini Reilly's guitar work and I do interpret it as a compassionate rather than insulting song-- not racist in any case-- I just think you have to infer the compassion. Morrissey flubbed it.

And I'm sorry but I don't see how the song's lyrics can be taken as totally harmless. I understand that he's reaching out in sympathy to an outsider who has made a fool of himself for trying to fit in, but there are a few stages of thoughts I'd have before arriving at "shelve your Western plans", such as-- oh, I dunno-- "would you like some tips" or "you might consider losing the ankle star" or "the Seventies ended years ago". Something along those lines. I get the whole "Moz is singing about not fitting in" but tell me, who in the world would meet someone who doesn't fit in and instantly leap straight to "Give up, man, just give up"?

Again, just arguing for the ambiguity, not the racist explanation.

 

[Danny_]

Bingo.

To the other posts:

I like the song too. Love Vini Reilly's guitar work and I do interpret it as a compassionate rather than insulting song-- not racist in any case-- I just think you have to infer the compassion. Morrissey flubbed it.

And I'm sorry but I don't see how the song's lyrics can be taken as totally harmless. I understand that he's reaching out in sympathy to an outsider who has made a fool of himself for trying to fit in, but there are a few stages of thoughts I'd have before arriving at "shelve your Western plans", such as-- oh, I dunno-- "would you like some tips" or "you might consider losing the ankle star" or "the Seventies ended years ago". Something along those lines. I get the whole "Moz is singing about not fitting in" but tell me, who in the world would meet someone who doesn't fit in and instantly leap straight to "Give up, man, just give up"?

Again, just arguing for the ambiguity, not the racist explanation.

I sort of disagree with you there Worm. I think Morrissey would be inclined to say to someone "give up". What I get very strongly from Morrissey is he really does abhor people trying to fit in and following the crowd.

 

[suparni]

Bingo.

I get the whole "Moz is singing about not fitting in" but tell me, who in the world would meet someone who doesn't fit in and instantly leap straight to "Give up, man, just give up"?

Again, just arguing for the ambiguity, not the racist explanation.

Give up trying to be something you are not and just be yourself not dressing yourself up in imitation of something you don't know so well (or anything for that matter.) Just forget the whole idea of imitation and follow your nature.

After having not fit in and having failed and even been hurt or having hurt myself by trying to fit in and not really be myself, I discovered it was like a lily flower desperately trying to be a rose, or a daisy... not only was I completely unsuccessful at being a rose - I actually deformed the beautiful lily that I am in trying to be something that I am not. So it would have been better if I just let the lily be the lily and completely stopped stunting its growth by trying to make it into a rose. After all a lily is quite beautiful as it is... and it is quite painful trying to be something that you don't even have the capacity to be. A lily I am and I may as well be a strong and beautiful one... and that cannot happen if I am constantly using all of my energy trying to be something that is not a lily.

Esp true in this song since Bengali's are veg... and most Brits are not.

See how logical?

but seriously... that is how I hear it. What to do... it's my right - at least I am free to hear what I want in music.

 

[no one in particular]

One aspect of the "controversy" over the NME article which I find particularly disturbing is the use of Morrissey's lyrics to paint him as a racist. It really pisses me off that there is seemingly no separation between art and the artist. In an interview for the YATQ tour, Morrissey said something to the effect, "I think it is vital as a writer to document absolutely everything. Not just the good days and times but the bad as well. Everything."

Music is an art and should be treated as such. For instance, Morrissey is not excused of being a child killer/kidnapper (or advocating this position) despite writing a song like "Ambitious Outsiders," so why should his other lyrics be given any more weight?

yet, similarly but with the goal of the opposite effect, Merck himself in an email to Conor McNicholas and in his TTY public statement, in turn used several morrissey songs to demonstrate that morrissey is NOT racist:

email to Conor:
I believe Morrissey's voice will be a very powerful one to have behind the campaign - particularly in light of his empathetic songs on the subject such as "I Will See You In Far-Off Places" and "Irish Blood, English Heart" - and it will let the world know how strongly he is opposed to racism and encourage his loyal fans to take the same position.

public statement on TTY:
As we all know, the NME does not speak for its readership, the artists do. Artists like Morrissey. The NME also does not speak for Morrissey. Anti-racist songs such as "Irish Blood, English Heart," "America Is Not The World" and "I Will See You In Far Off Places" tell you the true measure of the man.

I sort of disagree with you there Worm. I think Morrissey would be inclined to say to someone "give up". What I get very strongly from Morrissey is he really does abhor people trying to fit in and following the crowd.

yeah, "the headless herd", as he is fond of calling them...and now i am too

 

[Dave]

I think the first thing we have to establish is that Morrissey occasionally says some things that are more than just difficult. It's a mistake to try to interpret everything to be inoffensive.

We can interpret this song in a "sympathetic" way.

"I am sorry and feel badly for you because you don't fit in and should not have come here" (shelve your Western plans could have what other meaning?)

That's subtly different than "Go back to where you came from" and very different than "You don't belong here because I don't like people of your race".

But, saying something like, "this poor Bengali, trying to fit in with our/British culture and failing miserably" might easily be interpreted as, at the least, condescending.

 

[lightupvirginmary]

I think the first thing we have to establish is that Morrissey occasionally says some things that are more than just difficult. It's a mistake to try to interpret everything to be inoffensive.

We can interpret this song in a "sympathetic" way.

"I am sorry and feel badly for you because you don't fit in and should not have come here" (shelve your Western plans could have what other meaning?)

That's subtly different than "Go back to where you came from" and very different than "You don't belong here because I don't like people of your race".

But, saying something like, "this poor Bengali, trying to fit in with our/British culture and failing miserably" might easily be interpreted as, at the least, condescending.

A good point, and I think even the title is slightly... close to the bone because it does seem to be ridiculing the person in question.
'Life is hard enough when you belong here' always jarred with me a bit, just because I hate the thought of someone who IS racist, using this as some sort of justification/ acceptance. But look at the lyrics to Asian Rut, it's the other side of the coin.

Morrissey is a complicated man. But he's not a racist.

 

[Vauxhall95]

Which is why I find the use of lyrics by both sides to simply be silly and self-promoting. It seems to me there is a distinction between art and the artist. For heaven's sake Hitler was a painter! If he painted pastoral landscapes does that make him a harmless romantic? It's the artist's deeds which define them.

yet, similarly but with the goal of the opposite effect, Merck himself in an email to Conor McNicholas and in his TTY public statement, in turn used several morrissey songs to demonstrate that morrissey is NOT racist:

email to Conor:
I believe Morrissey's voice will be a very powerful one to have behind the campaign - particularly in light of his empathetic songs on the subject such as "I Will See You In Far-Off Places" and "Irish Blood, English Heart" - and it will let the world know how strongly he is opposed to racism and encourage his loyal fans to take the same position.

public statement on TTY:
As we all know, the NME does not speak for its readership, the artists do. Artists like Morrissey. The NME also does not speak for Morrissey. Anti-racist songs such as "Irish Blood, English Heart," "America Is Not The World" and "I Will See You In Far Off Places" tell you the true measure of the man.



yeah, "the headless herd", as he is fond of calling them...and now i am too

 

[Corrissey]

on think on some level Corrissey and I are soul sisters... at least on some level... somehow.

aww, thanks soul sistah!
Yes, we are different flowers from the same garden