When was Moz hated?

[MrMajeika]

Question: When did Moz become totally hated by non Moz fans?

I remember the early 2018 tour when he played big arenas so he can’t have been fully hated at that point?

But later in the year the Castlefield shows were cancelled so he must have been hated by that point.

So when is the exact point that the hatred towards Moz took place?

 

[MoneyChangesEverything]

Question: When did Moz become totally hated by non Moz fans?

I remember the early 2018 tour when he played big arenas so he can’t have been fully hated at that point?

But later in the year the Castlefield shows were cancelled so he must have been hated by that point.

So when is the exact point that the hatred towards Moz took place?

Moz has always over stated his own importance. The 2018 Arena tour sold pitifully with lots of unsold tickets. 2020 was slimmed down to two half-sold arenas.

 

[Surface]

Moz has always over stated his own importance. The 2018 Arena tour sold pitifully with lots of unsold tickets. 2020 was slimmed down to two half-sold arenas.

Don't know about other venues on the tour but the Birmingham gig I went to was well attended. I think it was after that he started spouting shit about Tommy Robinson etc which led to the 2 Castlefield shows later in 18 being cancelled due to shockingly poor ticket sales.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

It’s racist in context, too.
But I suppose if a singer you’ve never met is all you have to define who you are in the world, you can turn a blind eye/find any way to excuse it.

@Surface

Well, if one has or hasn’t met him? I don’t know what role that plays in being able to understand what was said, and why it was said in the interview?
An interview in which the person that’s being interviewed is an animal activist, a bit hyperbolic, and crudely chose the words that best (to an animal activist) described their anger at what they recently watched?

And there is no need to ‘excuse’ him if one understands why he said what he said and what Morrissey stands for in regards to the rights of animals.

Having said that, I do feel it was a poorly chosen word.

It’s racist in context, too.
But I suppose if a singer you’ve never met is all you have to define who you are in the world, you can turn a blind eye/find any way to excuse it.

“You can't help but feel that the Chinese are a subspecies.”

Not that people who mistreat animals are subhuman; not even that Chinese people who mistreat animals are subhuman. The Chinese. All of them.

If this is not what he meant (and it obviously wasn’t, but that’s not the point) then the onus is on him to clarify; not some lunatic fan who doesn’t know anything about anything. He hasn’t bothered, so everyone thinks he’s racist.

So do you think it’s a racist comment in context or not?


“Armitage said Morrissey was typically and deliberately provocative throughout the interview. "I thought at the time it was a dangerous thing to say into a tape recorder. He must have known it would make waves, he's not daft," he said. "But he's provocative and theatrical, and it was one of dozens of dramatic pronouncements. I'm not an apologist for that kind of remark, and couldn't ignore it. But clearly, when it comes to animal rights and animal welfare, he's absolutely unshakable in his beliefs. In his view, if you treat an animal badly, you are less than human. I think that was his point."

Morrissey said in a statement tonight: "If anyone has seen the horrific and unwatchable footage of the Chinese cat and dog trade – animals skinned alive – then they could not possibly argue in favour of China as a caring nation. There are no animal protection laws in China and this results in the worst animal abuse and cruelty on the planet. It is indefensible."

Wasn’t the above statement after the interview a clarification enough? at least by Morrissey standards? I assume this statement was made on True To You, but I can’t find a link to that source, FWD?


And do you really think the media has no blame in painting the picture that Morrissey is ‘evil’?

Just read this Guardian article, and see how they try to build up a case against him to support their interpretation of him ….

Morrissey reignites racism row by calling Chinese a 'subspecies' | Morrissey | The Guardian

<p>Remark came in context of an attack on China's animal welfare record, with singer having been criticised on a number of previous occasions for negative race comments</p>

amp.theguardian.com

& just google ‘Morrissey Chinese’ and the headline of each article will never say why he said what he said.

 

[Malarkey]

He said half a sentence about Tommy Robinson & no one asked him to clarify why he thought it was shocking or what he knew about Robinson - they were too busy writing thousands of articles & social media/forum posts claiming Morrissey believed things he hadn't actually said.

 

[Malarkey]

@Surface

Well, if one has or hasn’t met him? I don’t know what role that plays in being able to understand what was said, and why it was said in the interview?
An interview in which the person that’s being interviewed is an animal activist, a bit hyperbolic, and crudely chose the words that best (to an animal activist) described their anger at what they recently watched?

And there is no need to ‘excuse’ him if one understands why he said what he said and what Morrissey stands for in regards to the rights of animals.

Having said that, I do feel it was a poorly chosen word.






So do you think it’s a racist comment in context or not?


“Armitage said Morrissey was typically and deliberately provocative throughout the interview. "I thought at the time it was a dangerous thing to say into a tape recorder. He must have known it would make waves, he's not daft," he said. "But he's provocative and theatrical, and it was one of dozens of dramatic pronouncements. I'm not an apologist for that kind of remark, and couldn't ignore it. But clearly, when it comes to animal rights and animal welfare, he's absolutely unshakable in his beliefs. In his view, if you treat an animal badly, you are less than human. I think that was his point."

Morrissey said in a statement tonight: "If anyone has seen the horrific and unwatchable footage of the Chinese cat and dog trade – animals skinned alive – then they could not possibly argue in favour of China as a caring nation. There are no animal protection laws in China and this results in the worst animal abuse and cruelty on the planet. It is indefensible."

Wasn’t the above statement after the interview a clarification enough? at least by Morrissey standards? I assume this statement was made on True To You, but I can’t find a link to that source, FWD?


And do you really think the media has no blame in painting the picture that Morrissey is ‘evil’?

Just read this Guardian article, and see how they try to build up a case against him to support their interpretation of him ….

Morrissey reignites racism row by calling Chinese a 'subspecies' | Morrissey | The Guardian

<p>Remark came in context of an attack on China's animal welfare record, with singer having been criticised on a number of previous occasions for negative race comments</p>

amp.theguardian.com

& just google ‘Morrissey Chinese’ and the headline of each article will never say why he said what he said.

He made the statement directly to the Guardian.

Their article about it directly links the "race row" to the NME's 2007 & 1992 articles. Because the only reason they were hyping an ill chosen word was to defend those shitty articles.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

He made the statement directly to the Guardian.

Their article about it directly links the "race row" to the NME's 2007 & 1992 articles. Because the only reason they were hyping an ill chosen word was to defend those shitty articles.

Ah ok, I wasn’t sure.

 

[Branon]

This isn't really worth much as I'm sure I am likely just an outlier; but ironically enough it is some of the bad publicity he has had which has drawn me back in as a fan. I had been a crazed fan from 2004-2010, going to a lot of gigs, and went to as late as 2012 Manchester Arena; around about that time, I wasn't mad keen on most of Years of Refusal and I was also beginning my career which I put a lot of time into; whilst disregarding a lot of my interests, not just Morrissey. So the years have kind of shot by, still listening to the odd song out there but being outside of the fandom. I heard the odd thing now and then of his comments, but was never really too bothered.

Recently I was talking to some friends, and through some chance of fate I'm surrounded by a close group most of which love the Smiths. So I was reminiscing about my Morrissey fandom. It got me thinking to look online a bit more, maybe check out the odd tour. Fast forward a few weeks, and it's been an extremely troubling time for me as a fan of his; not because of what he has said but because of how awful and cruel I find the whole situation surrounding him. People can have their opinions, and I have actually spent quite some time digging in to what exactly was said, when; I wanted to know the full picture; and believe me I am a classic 'anti-Brexiter', completely left-wing person traditionally in the past. But I'm also not just told what to think... and I find this complete sway of his fans to completely up and leave someone they apparently loved to be just truly disheartening.

But, for me I have been digging into his work of the last ten years; I have some similar thoughts around some of the material as I did around the new stuff coming out near YOR, but there is some great stuff in there. The internet has also evolved quite a lot in 11 years, so there are countless amazing live gigs to find, and dig out. It's been a pleasure 're-learning' his back catalogue again.. and I am kind of living in hope that he does another EU tour in the next couple of years, having just missed countless gigs in the last year.

So yeah... all of this text is more to say; there are people out there who have actually re-found Morrissey and don't find his words enough to 'cancel' the man in their heads. I don't agree with much of the political stuff he has said, but I also know a lot has been taken out of context. The love I had for him doesn't die that easily, and I'm okay with that. And I can just never compare merely words to what most 'cancelled' stars have actually done. I find the contextual comparisons really cruel.

 

[Mike Rourke]

Don't know about other venues on the tour but the Birmingham gig I went to was well attended. I think it was after that he started spouting shit about Tommy Robinson etc which led to the 2 Castlefield shows later in 18 being cancelled due to shockingly poor ticket sales.

The 2018 arena tour was actually very well attended. It was probably his most successful tour ever, solo or Smith.
But the tickets went on sale in autumn 2017, just before the shit started to hit the fan, kicking off with the ill-fated 6 Music concert where he introduced people to a politician called Anne Marie Waters, then came the Der Spiegel interview, For Britain endorsements etc. and 18 months of mass fan haemorrhage. The UK tour that was actually arranged in 2018 (rather than autumn 2017) was when the extent of the fan desertion first became apparent with all dates pulled.

 

[NealCassidy]

1983

 

[Redacted]

He's a fourth gender humasexual - he does not have to worry about this point in history.

Unfortunately, she is being serious. Fourth gender humansexual.
He seems to be an elderly bisexual since there are only 2 sexes and all of this gender malarkey is ridiculous.

Not going to dispute the fact that there are two sexes, but humasexual and fourth gender are, literally, terms he has used for himself, so Malarkey is not wrong.

I said ' she is being serious', so yes

 

[Redacted]

Vegans are some of the most annoying people on earth, so he's got that working against him, if he were atheist, it would only be worse.

 

[gordyboy9]

The 2018 arena tour was actually very well attended. It was probably his most successful tour ever, solo or Smith.
But the tickets went on sale in autumn 2017, just before the shit started to hit the fan, kicking off with the ill-fated 6 Music concert where he introduced people to a politician called Anne Marie Waters, then came the Der Spiegel interview, For Britain endorsements etc. and 18 months of mass fan haemorrhage. The UK tour that was actually arranged in 2018 (rather than autumn 2017) was when the extent of the fan desertion first became apparent with all dates pulled.

can you explain how you know M had 60,000 fans in the uk which dwindled to 20,000,all very precise,would love to know where you got these figures.

 

[MoneyChangesEverything]

This seems to indicate poor ticket sales in big rooms. https://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/the-dreadful-state-of-uk-ticket-sales.145706/

 

[Mike Rourke]

can you explain how you know M had 60,000 fans in the uk which dwindled to 20,000,all very precise,would love to know where you got these figures.

It is the live audience, rather than 'fans' per se, and it's looking at the UK tour sales before and after the 18 months of the toxic For Britain/Nigel Farage supporting nonsense from autumn 2017 to spring 2019. It's approximate but reasonably accurate.
If you want more precision, we have exact number for sales of High School and Dog on a Chain (from memory they're around 25,000 and 6,000).
Those are first week sales but Dog flew out of the top 100 after just one week whereas High School hung around for a few weeks, so the total sales comparisons will be even worse.
He's pulling it back a bit. It's now 4 years since he's publicly supported any toxic arseholes which means an increasing number of people at the concerts weren't following him in the late 2010s, and the atmosphere at the recent live shows has been really good. And if Radio 2 etc are happy to play his new songs again, that will make a big difference, but they refused to play Rebels Without Applause so perhaps still some way to go.

 

[Harsh Truth]

Non-fans haven't liked Morrissey since as long as I can remember, well before he started being "politically controversial" about 6-7 years ago. You either get his music or you don't. Very few in between, in my experience.

 

[BrokenFrame]

Non-fans haven't liked Morrissey since as long as I can remember, well before he started being "politically controversial" about 6-7 years ago. You either get his music or you don't. Very few in between, in my experience.

Yeah, I get crap off people for liking his music because they consider it "depressing". I wish people could just mind their own business.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Yeah, I get crap off people for liking his music because they consider it "depressing". I wish people could just mind their own business.

I guess one person’s depressing is another’s comforting.

 

[BrokenFrame]

I guess one person’s depressing is another’s comforting.

The smiths was one of the first bands that made see beauty in sadness.

 

[gordyboy9]

It is the live audience, rather than 'fans' per se, and it's looking at the UK tour sales before and after the 18 months of the toxic For Britain/Nigel Farage supporting nonsense from autumn 2017 to spring 2019. It's approximate but reasonably accurate.
If you want more precision, we have exact number for sales of High School and Dog on a Chain (from memory they're around 25,000 and 6,000).
Those are first week sales but Dog flew out of the top 100 after just one week whereas High School hung around for a few weeks, so the total sales comparisons will be even worse.
He's pulling it back a bit. It's now 4 years since he's publicly supported any toxic arseholes which means an increasing number of people at the concerts weren't following him in the late 2010s, and the atmosphere at the recent live shows has been really good. And if Radio 2 etc are happy to play his new songs again, that will make a big difference, but they refused to play Rebels Without Applause so perhaps still some way to go.

dog was released on the first week of the pandemic,people put spending on hold for a good while.

 

[Surface]

dog was released on the first week of the pandemic,people put spending on hold for a good while.

Really, must have been just Morrissey fans putting their spending on hold as the number 1 album that week was by The Weeknd, it sold 26k and went on to be a Platinum selling album with over 300K sales.