Morrissey A-Z: "How Can Anybody Possibly Know How I Feel?"

Flibberty

Well-Known Member
Well, I always found that following up Vauxhall & I with a brutal and heavy rocker like Southpaw was a bald move. For me, there was certainly a bigger stylistic shift between these 2 albums than between Maladjusted and YATQ.

We can say it in a more positive way, that he let Alain and Boz bring the tunes that they do best. I really like YATQ as an album. I love his voice on that album too.

Jerry Finn earned his name with Green Day, and I can imagine some people fearing that he would impose his style on Morrissey, but he was very respectful of Morrissey and his musical style. Perhaps the choice of Jerry Finn could be considered a bald move at the time and before hearing the output. I can see that.
Absolutely there was a shift between Vauxhall and I and Southpaw Grammar. I think Morrissey was being lauded for the poetry of the former album and, being the contrarian that he is, decided to release an album with almost no poetic lyrics whatsoever and with long instrumental stretches.

I wouldn't say You are the Quarry was safe or risk free exactly, but I think it is interesting that 2004 was one of the few periods when Morrissey was willing to 'play the game'. Doing interviews with The NME, recording a John Peel session, releasing singles with new b-sides on two CDs etc. He was certainly concerned about popularity and wasn't going to go down the self-destruct route as he'd done in 1995 again (he would leave the self-destructing until later).
 

Flibberty

Well-Known Member
How was having Finn produce
one of the best moves for YATQ?

I mean, who else was in line to produce it, that Finn was the better choice?
It was one of the best moves because it helped Morrissey to have a huge hit album and four top ten hit singles. Something that would have been unimaginable at the start of 2004.

I think it's self-explanatory that it was a great move.
 

Carlisle baz

Cock of the north
It was one of the best moves because it helped Morrissey to have a huge hit album and four top ten hit singles. Something that would have been unimaginable at the start of 2004.

I think it's self-explanatory that it was a great move.
You raise a good point with quarry..
If that album was received like the previous one, then Moz would have been just about washed up and practically finished..
I’m unsure why some people nit-pick about quarry, it’s a stunning album, I was also surprised to read many negative comments about , how could anyone possibly know how I feel,
He’s had worse songs that have been well received on the daily song thread.
 

Ketamine Sun

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It was one of the best moves because it helped Morrissey to have a huge hit album and four top ten hit singles. Something that would have been unimaginable at the start of 2004.

I think it's self-explanatory that it was a great move.


Yeah, it’s too bad he couldn’t have gotten a better producer though. Then again, I guess he got what he wanted. I mean, Morrissey seems happy with it enough to have worked with him again, so be it.
 

Ketamine Sun

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You raise a good point with quarry..
If that album was received like the previous one, then Moz would have been just about washed up and practically finished..
I’m unsure why some people nit-pick about quarry, it’s a stunning album,

Well, it’s subjective really. I feel the same way about Kill Uncle, and the possibilities of what it could have been in the right hands.
 

Flibberty

Well-Known Member
Yeah, it’s too bad he couldn’t have gotten a better producer though. Then again, I guess he got what he wanted. I mean, Morrissey seems happy with it enough to have worked with him again, so be it.
Nah, he was the right producer. The success of the album proves that.
 

Verso

Well-Known Member
Yeah, it’s too bad he couldn’t have gotten a better producer though. Then again, I guess he got what he wanted. I mean, Morrissey seems happy with it enough to have worked with him again, so be it.
The production is so two-dimensional but I find it inextricably linked to the personality of the songs. I have a hard time imagining any of them with a more nuanced sound. It's not a particularly deep album and that synthetic atmosphere sort of works. Stephen Street would have made sense, but I don't really think Steve Lillywhite or Joe C would have really improved the record. Do you?
 

Ben Budd

Well-Known Member
people stick the boot into quarry these days but dont forget this album was well recieved and really put M back in the limelight and led to a very successful tour which seemed to last forever.
The issue is that the songs on the album are similar in terms of style and production to those on Maladjusted, but it was crucial at the time that the mid-90s Morrissey and his output was put in a drawer and closed and we were told "no no, THIS is what he REALLY can do!"

Granted, the singles on Quarry are superior to Maladjusted, but you can't tell me songs like this, Lazy Dykes, America, I Like You are vastly superior than Maladjusted the track, He Cried, Trouble, Wide to Receive etc.

Quarry is fine. Absolutely fine. And when I sit back and listen to Morrissey, rare as it is these days, I enjoy some tracks in the context of 00s/10s Morrissey, but it's overrated to me in that context. Safety first, let's get this done, then we can try more eccentric stuff - see ROTT.
 
S

southpawcomprehensive

Guest
"And as for you in your uniform
Your smelly uniform
And so you think you can be rude to me
Because you wear a uniform
A smelly uniform
And so you think you can be rude to me"

Maybe I'm too picky but I can't enjoy a song which contains lyrics that bad.

Great title, though!
It was an early portent of the lazy lyrics to come in the post 2004 comeback. Some of those songs are so bad I have t listened more than ten times
 
S

southpawcomprehensive

Guest
Absolutely there was a shift between Vauxhall and I and Southpaw Grammar. I think Morrissey was being lauded for the poetry of the former album and, being the contrarian that he is, decided to release an album with almost no poetic lyrics whatsoever and with long instrumental stretches.

I wouldn't say You are the Quarry was safe or risk free exactly, but I think it is interesting that 2004 was one of the few periods when Morrissey was willing to 'play the game'. Doing interviews with The NME, recording a John Peel session, releasing singles with new b-sides on two CDs etc. He was certainly concerned about popularity and wasn't going to go down the self-destruct route as he'd done in 1995 again (he would leave the self-destructing until later).

Good points here. I’m curious as to when people think his current self destruction began. For me he’s not been the same since Autobiography. That seemed to loosen something in him. So interesting that it made no mention of the 2009 Smiths reunion meeting with Marr too
 
J

Janice

Guest
You raise a good point with quarry..
If that album was received like the previous one, then Moz would have been just about washed up and practically finished..
I’m unsure why some people nit-pick about quarry, it’s a stunning album, I was also surprised to read many negative comments about , how could anyone possibly know how I feel,
He’s had worse songs that have been well received on the daily song thread.
Barry - it’s a handful of people commenting so I wouldn’t be so down hearted that a few folk don’t appreciate How Can Anybody .....
 
J

Janice

Guest
The issue is that the songs on the album are similar in terms of style and production to those on Maladjusted, but it was crucial at the time that the mid-90s Morrissey and his output was put in a drawer and closed and we were told "no no, THIS is what he REALLY can do!"

Granted, the singles on Quarry are superior to Maladjusted, but you can't tell me songs like this, Lazy Dykes, America, I Like You are vastly superior than Maladjusted the track, He Cried, Trouble, Wide to Receive etc.

Quarry is fine. Absolutely fine. And when I sit back and listen to Morrissey, rare as it is these days, I enjoy some tracks in the context of 00s/10s Morrissey, but it's overrated to me in that context. Safety first, let's get this done, then we can try more eccentric stuff - see ROTT.
Excellent post. Really good read.
 

Ketamine Sun

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Nah, he was the right producer. The success of the album proves that.

‘proves’? Well, that depends on how you define ‘success’.


So it’s subjective, as far as what a listener would call a good or bad production. I mean, it’s a good production as far as it being listenable and that maybe also helped in its chart placing. But, like Kill Uncle, I like to imagine what could have been.
And no, I’m not a fan of the sound of Finn’s production on YATQ, it works a little better on YOR to my ear though.

I’m glad you like Finn’s work on it.

As far as ‘success’ yes it was successful in regards to chart placing and maybe Finn’s style and name brought some publicity to YATQ. But ‘successful’ as a record that most fans would put in the same category as VH, YA, or Vauxhall? I don’t think so, and I’m talking about the way it sounds. What is considered a successful record to one may not be considered a successful record to another, in the way it makes the listener feel.

Greenday etc where ‘successful’ I don’t see or hear them as successful.

But, I do like Morrissey’s voice, words,vision and his choice of music from the band members and what he did with those offerings on YATQ.
 

Mayfly

Well-Known Member
Absolutely there was a shift between Vauxhall and I and Southpaw Grammar. I think Morrissey was being lauded for the poetry of the former album and, being the contrarian that he is, decided to release an album with almost no poetic lyrics whatsoever and with long instrumental stretches.

I wouldn't say You are the Quarry was safe or risk free exactly, but I think it is interesting that 2004 was one of the few periods when Morrissey was willing to 'play the game'. Doing interviews with The NME, recording a John Peel session, releasing singles with new b-sides on two CDs etc. He was certainly concerned about popularity and wasn't going to go down the self-destruct route as he'd done in 1995 again (he would leave the self-destructing until later).
Yes, that's the way to put it. If Morrissey wanted to have any chance of a spectacular comeback, he had to show a greater willingness to "play by the rules". And that meant coming up with the type of songs that brought him success in the first place. And it were happy times for us all. As you said, his contrarious behavior returned later, and we'll certainly have a chance to discuss it in later threads.
 

Ketamine Sun

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The production is so two-dimensional but I find it inextricably linked to the personality of the songs. I have a hard time imagining any of them with a more nuanced sound. It's not a particularly deep album and that synthetic atmosphere sort of works. Stephen Street would have made sense, but I don't really think Steve Lillywhite or Joe C would have really improved the record. Do you?

Or maybe the two-dimensional production changed the songs that originally had the potential to be three-dimensional, but where changed into two-dimensional songs?

Maybe if Lillywhite had these songs
in 93 they could have been perceived as they were originally intended three-dimensional. Production plays a large role on the way music moves or doesn’t move the listener.


Lillywhite and his sound changed to my ear over the three albums he did with Morrissey, so it’s difficult to imagine what he would have done with Quarry.




Chiccarelli can be considered a commercial sound, though I think if he got his hand on Quarry it may have been a little better, but not much. For me it wasn’t until IANADOAC that I feel Chiccarelli really worked out sound wise, though I still find issues with it.


I don’t know if Finn was Morrissey’s first choice of producer for Quarry, does anyone know?

I’d like to see him work with Bob Ezrin that produced Reeds Berlin and Floyd’s The Wall actually.

Or there’s younger creative producers like Alan Moulder and Flood, Sylvia Massy, Joe Barresi, or Tchad Blake, could be interesting.
 

Carlisle baz

Cock of the north
Barry - it’s a handful of people commenting so I wouldn’t be so down hearted that a few folk don’t appreciate How Can Anybody .....
I shall take comfort from your wise words Janice,
Upon reflection, I was rather rash with my reply.....
I’ve written out 100 lines about my foolishness.........👍👍👍
 

Flibberty

Well-Known Member
‘proves’? Well, that depends on how you define ‘success’.


So it’s subjective, as far as what a listener would call a good or bad production. I mean, it’s a good production as far as it being listenable and that maybe also helped in its chart placing. But, like Kill Uncle, I like to imagine what could have been.
And no, I’m not a fan of the sound of Finn’s production on YATQ, it works a little better on YOR to my ear though.

I’m glad you like Finn’s work on it.

As far as ‘success’ yes it was successful in regards to chart placing and maybe Finn’s style and name brought some publicity to YATQ. But ‘successful’ as a record that most fans would put in the same category as VH, YA, or Vauxhall? I don’t think so, and I’m talking about the way it sounds. What is considered a successful record to one may not be considered a successful record to another, in the way it makes the listener feel.

Greenday etc where ‘successful’ I don’t see or hear them as successful.

But, I do like Morrissey’s voice, words,vision and his choice of music from the band members and what he did with those offerings on YATQ.
Whether a fan likes a record or not is absolutely subjective. No argument about that.

But, from Morrissey's perspective, Jerry Finn was absolutely the right producer for the album. It saved his career at the time.

And I would personally say that Morrissey's lyrical contributions were nothing like the same standard that they had been on Vauxhall and I, for example. I don't think in the lead up to the album people expected them to be, as the lyrics for both Southpaw Grammar and Maladjusted had been substandard (with some exceptions).
 

Carlisle baz

Cock of the north
Whether a fan likes a record or not is absolutely subjective. No argument about that.

But, from Morrissey's perspective, Jerry Finn was absolutely the right producer for the album. It saved his career at the time.

And I would personally say that Morrissey's lyrical contributions were nothing like the same standard that they had been on Vauxhall and I, for example. I don't think in the lead up to the album people expected them to be, as the lyrics for both Southpaw Grammar and Maladjusted had been substandard (with some exceptions).
People,
every Morrissey album is first class....
It’s only the one you dislike the most .... that we Twitter on about....
Nice to see all the intellectual ones carry themselves on for a change...

Have you realised the annons don’t ever chirp in with these conversations !!!!!
Out of their depth....
mine as well 😩😩😩
 

Ketamine Sun

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Whether a fan likes a record or not is absolutely subjective. No argument about that.

But, from Morrissey's perspective, Jerry Finn was absolutely the right producer for the album.

Was that Morrissey’s perspective? How do you know this?
It saved his career at the time.

I find it difficult to believe that Finn’s contribution was the sole reason for YATQ’s chart success.
And I would personally say

Thank you
that Morrissey's lyrical contributions were nothing like the same standard that they had been on Vauxhall and I,
I don’t agree, so yes, that is not an opinion everyone shares.
for example. I don't think in the lead up to the album people expected them to be, as the lyrics for both Southpaw Grammar and Maladjusted had been substandard (with some exceptions).

I think it would be more accurate if you said .. ‘I don't think in the lead up to the album I expected them to be, as the lyrics for both Southpaw Grammar and Maladjusted had been substandard (with some exceptions).’
 
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