Morrissey’s view on gender identity

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

The independent review conducted by Hilary Cass of transgender care in England have published their final report. The findings are really disturbing for anyone who cares about the bodily integrity of our children.

• An appraisal of international guidelines for care and treatment of children and young people with gender incongruence found that no single guideline could be applied in its entirety to the NHS in England.
• While a considerable amount of research has been published in this field, systematic evidence reviews demonstrated the poor quality of the published studies, meaning there is not a reliable evidence base upon which to make clinical decisions, or for children and their families to make informed choices.
• The strengths and weaknesses of the evidence base on the care of children and young people are often misrepresented and overstated, both in scientific publications and social debate.
• The controversy surrounding the use of medical treatments has taken focus away from what the individualised care and treatment is intended to achieve for individuals seeking support from NHS gender services.
• The rationale for early puberty suppression remains unclear, with weak evidence regarding the impact on gender dysphoria, mental or psychosocial health. The effect on cognitive and psychosexual development remains unknown.
• The use of masculinising / feminising hormones in those under the age of 18 also presents many unknowns, despite their longstanding use in the adult transgender population. The lack of long-term follow-up data on those commencing treatment at an earlier age means we have inadequate information about the range of outcomes for this group.
• Clinicians are unable to determine with any certainty which children and young people will go on to have an enduring trans identity.
• For most young people, a medical pathway will not be the best way to manage their gender-related distress. For those young people for whom a medical pathway is clinically indicated, it is not enough to provide this without also addressing wider mental health and/or psychosocially challenging problems.
• Innovation is important if medicine is to move forward, but there must be a proportionate level of monitoring, oversight and regulation that does not stifle progress, while preventing creep of unproven approaches into clinical practice. Innovation must draw from and contribute to the evidence base.

Final Report – Cass Review

cass.independent-review.uk

Basically we have been medicating children based on a 'fad'. Future generations will look back on what we have done and condemn us for child abuse.

It is horrific. It’s child abuse. People should be locked up.

Imagine losing your fertility and sexual function. Imagine being a parent that supported this for your child because you were lied to. It must be so unbearable that I bet many will not even be able to admit it to themselves.

The media has been terrible in not picking this up earlier or cheering it on. Same with celebrities too numerous to mention (but happy to list them!). Shame on them all.

 

[gashonthenail]

It is horrific. It’s child abuse. People should be locked up.

Imagine losing your fertility and sexual function. Imagine being a parent that supported this for your child because you were lied to. It must be so unbearable that I bet many will not even be able to admit it to themselves.

The media has been terrible in not picking this up earlier or cheering it on. Same with celebrities too numerous to mention (but happy to list them!). Shame on them all.

Indeed. But the truth is that 'celebrities' have been scared to speak up. Look at Germaine Greer - public career ended. Róisín Murphy - forced to grovel and apologise by her record company. Graham Linehan - private and public career pretty much ended. JK Rowling - almost certainly needs security wherever she goes. And in most work places if you speak up you risk being sacked by your employer for not expressing the 'values' of the organisation. To speak up in that kind of atmosphere is hard. As that backdrop at a Morrissey concert asks - what would you do if you weren't afraid?

 

[bhops]

Presented without comment.

 

[caramel sea salt]

I am so glad I was born when I was. 'Cause if I was a young gayling today there’d be a real risk they’d push me to transition. I’d be living as a 6ft2 tall “woman” with a fake, botched vagina. The thought is utterly unbearable.

When you’re a teenager and feeling awkward and different and you’re trying to figure out things and finding out who you are, and finding your place in this world, and you’re collecting Vogue magazines and sewing dresses for your sisters instead of playing football with your mates, and you are confused… you need to be able to TRUST adults and trust that they look out for and protect you and that they only have your best in mind. Putting kids on puberty blockers and mutilating their bodies isn’t that.

When you're young and confused and impressionable you don't even have the strength to withstand the pressure from doctors, psychologists, teachers, parents etc trying to convince you that you were born in the wrong body. I am so glad and thankful that wasn’t an option then. Of all the things “wrong” with me then, it certainly wasn’t my body or my sex.

 

[bhops]

I am so glad I was born when I was. 'Cause if I was a young gayling today there’d be a real risk they’d push me to transition. I’d be living as a 6ft2 tall “woman” with a fake, botched vagina. The thought is utterly unbearable.

When you’re a teenager and feeling awkward and different and you’re trying to figure out things and finding out who you are, and finding your place in this world, and you’re collecting Vogue magazines and sewing dresses for your sisters instead of playing football with your mates, and you are confused… you need to be able to TRUST adults and trust that they look out for and protect you and that they only have your best in mind. Putting kids on puberty blockers and mutilating their bodies isn’t that.

When you're young and confused and impressionable you don't even have the strength to withstand the pressure from doctors, psychologists, teachers, parents etc trying to convince you that you were born in the wrong body. I am so glad and thankful that wasn’t an option then. Of all the things “wrong” with me then, it certainly wasn’t my body or my sex.

View attachment 103289

This is entirely correct. I saw a very interesting interview, I forget the guests name, on Bill Maher and he said exactly the same thing. As a gay man he wondered how many young gay boys would be convinced they were not gay but in fact 'had been born in the wrong body' and thus given irreversible treatment robbing them of so much in adulthood.

I see some massive MASSIVE lawsuits coming in the next 5-10 years.

 

[gashonthenail]

Presented without comment.

View attachment 103287

Do we laugh or do we cry?
How the human race treats its children is totally f***ed up. Always has been and, unless we change, probably always will be.
This is the 21st century 'civilised' version of child sacrifice. Or sticking children up chimneys. It was all the rage back in the day.
Barbarism begins at home.

 

[bhops]

Do we laugh or do we cry?
How the human race treats its children is totally f***ed up. Always has been and, unless we change, probably always will be.
This is the 21st century 'civilised' version of child sacrifice. Or sticking children up chimneys. It was all the rage back in the day.
Barbarism begins at home.

Give it a couple of years and there will be some very red faces. But the damage that will be done in the meantime.......the West is a failed experiment.

 

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

Those that happily supporting trans activism and therefore the use of puberty blockers on children on this thread have gone very quiet…

 

[arthounds]

I think that Morrissey is most likely gender critical. He likes to blur the lines between masculinity and femininity and admires androgynous celebrities, but with that being said, his comments on Rowling and Greer mean he would probably draw the line at medical intervention. And with the transgender movement being the hostile, puritain force that it is, I can't see him agreeing with much of what they have to say. Diversity is conformity!

 

[goinghome]

The independent review conducted by Hilary Cass of transgender care in England have published their final report. The findings are really disturbing for anyone who cares about the bodily integrity of our children...
Basically we have been medicating children based on a 'fad'. Future generations will look back on what we have done and condemn us for child abuse.

The pressure's coming from all directions, but the evidence of the graphs shown during this talk about how the internet has driven up suicide and mental illness rates in young people is very clear and very horrifying.

'tell the kids they live in hell now'

I think that Morrissey is most likely gender critical.

If you know, would you please spell out the range of positions someone may hold about gender, and what each means in 2024 please?

 

[gashonthenail]

If you know, would you please spell out the range of positions someone may hold about gender, and what each means in 2024 please?

So, there is basically about 90% of the population who is 'gender critical'. That means they think that trans people deserve compassion and respect, but you can't change biological sex. And biological sex matters when it comes to safe spaces for women and women's sports. In that 90% are many trans people. The BBC and the mainstream media would describe anyone voicing such views as 'controversial'. Even 'bigoted' or 'transphobic'.
Then there is about 10% of the population who have fully bought into 'trans ideology'. This is the idea that you can change your sex simply by how you feel inside. And how you feel inside then determines what access you should have to single sex spaces and sport etc. Such views aren't described as 'controversial' by the BBC and the mainstream media. Even though most people - about 90% - would describe them as fairly extreme. If not dangerous.

 

[goinghome]

So, there is basically about 90% of the population who is 'gender critical'. That means they think that trans people deserve compassion and respect, but you can't change biological sex. And biological sex matters when it comes to safe spaces for women and women's sports. In that 90% are many trans people. The BBC and the mainstream media would describe anyone voicing such views as 'controversial'. Even 'bigoted' or 'transphobic'.
Then there is about 10% of the population who have fully bought into 'trans ideology'. This is the idea that you can change your sex simply by how you feel inside. And how you feel inside then determines what access you should have to single sex spaces and sport etc. Such views aren't described as 'controversial' by the BBC and the mainstream media. Even though most people - about 90% - would describe them as fairly extreme. If not dangerous.

Ok thanks. That seems fairly simple. Gender critical folk claim there are mainly 2 genders, men and women, for which they risk being called transphobic. Even though trans people switch between these 2 genders, and embody one or the other?

It's all the other screaming and subliminal messages around this issue that seem alarming to me. I feel people are right to question what is actually going on. My brother was telling me about a guy he knows in his late twenties who is thinking of transitioning. Someone who's lived and hopefully has had time to make up his own mind, but at least is far more likely to be genuinely choosing his path than very young more pliant impressionable people. As Uncle Skinny might say, it's all about the dosh. Is it?

 

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

So, there is basically about 90% of the population who is 'gender critical'. That means they think that trans people deserve compassion and respect, but you can't change biological sex. And biological sex matters when it comes to safe spaces for women and women's sports. In that 90% are many trans people. The BBC and the mainstream media would describe anyone voicing such views as 'controversial'. Even 'bigoted' or 'transphobic'.
Then there is about 10% of the population who have fully bought into 'trans ideology'. This is the idea that you can change your sex simply by how you feel inside. And how you feel inside then determines what access you should have to single sex spaces and sport etc. Such views aren't described as 'controversial' by the BBC and the mainstream media. Even though most people - about 90% - would describe them as fairly extreme. If not dangerous.

I am not sure you have got the 90% and 10% division quite right (I realise this was not meant to be an exact figure!). That may be true in relation to people over say age 40, but I suspect gender critical views may be less popular among younger people.

Hard to know if many of these younger genuinely believe this stuff or will drop it when it ceases to be fashionable.

It could be that a series of law suits from detransitioners with even more horrors emerging, might mean in 10 years time no one will claim they ever agreed supported gender ideology…

 

[gashonthenail]

I am not sure you have got the 90% and 10% division quite right (I realise this was not meant to be an exact figure!). That may be true in relation to people over say age 40, but I suspect gender critical views may be less popular among younger people.

Hard to know if many of these younger genuinely believe this stuff or will drop it when it ceases to be fashionable.

It could be that a series of law suits from detransitioners with even more horrors emerging, might mean in 10 years time no one will claim they ever agreed supported gender ideology…

Yes, unfortunately, that is probably very true. Pushing this ideology on children has several objectives. If you want to create 'patients' who have to stay on 'treatment' for the rest of their lives, get them while they are young. The profit margins are just so much better. Children are also the only people impressionable / gullible enough to buy this bull shit. And it also follows the guiding principle of the Jesuits - brainwash a child and you have a devotee for life. All rather scary.

 

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

Yes, unfortunately, that is probably very true. Pushing this ideology on children has several objectives. If you want to create 'patients' who have to stay on 'treatment' for the rest of their lives, get them while they are young. The profit margins are just so much better. Children are also the only people impressionable / gullible enough to buy this bull shit. And it also follows the guiding principle of the Jesuits - brainwash a child and you have a devotee for life. All rather scary.

Totally agree. And there are some very obvious and sinister motives some cross dressing men have for pushing puberty blockers onto children, when they have no intention of medically transitioning themselves in any way.

 

[goinghome]

I am so glad I was born when I was. 'Cause if I was a young gayling today there’d be a real risk they’d push me to transition. I’d be living as a 6ft2 tall “woman” with a fake, botched vagina. The thought is utterly unbearable.

When you’re a teenager and feeling awkward and different and you’re trying to figure out things and finding out who you are, and finding your place in this world, and you’re collecting Vogue magazines and sewing dresses for your sisters instead of playing football with your mates, and you are confused… you need to be able to TRUST adults and trust that they look out for and protect you and that they only have your best in mind. Putting kids on puberty blockers and mutilating their bodies isn’t that.

When you're young and confused and impressionable you don't even have the strength to withstand the pressure from doctors, psychologists, teachers, parents etc trying to convince you that you were born in the wrong body. I am so glad and thankful that wasn’t an option then. Of all the things “wrong” with me then, it certainly wasn’t my body or my sex.

So well said. This article covers the same ground and draws similar conclusions - https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/will-big-trans-be-held-to-account-3ad?

 

[goinghome]

God, Judith Butler is dumb.

No, she is trying to work out how to give as much freedom as possible to as many people as possible.
Since then, she's been deploring university censorship, of anti-genocide voices for now -https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/news/there-can-be-no-critique?

 

[gashonthenail]

Totally agree. And there are some very obvious and sinister motives some cross dressing men have for pushing puberty blockers onto children, when they have no intention of medically transitioning themselves in any way.

Pun intended, follow the Money...

Dr John Money and the sinister origins of gender ideology

How a cruel, amoral experiment helped birth today's trans movement.

www.spiked-online.com

 

[gashonthenail]

So well said. This article covers the same ground and draws similar conclusions - https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/will-big-trans-be-held-to-account-3ad?

To see what is driving the trans industry, look no further than what has happened to our food. Who wants the boring old food that nature has given us - let's create an ultra-processed version. Who wants a boring old human body - we can give you an ultra-processed version of that too. The new frontier of capitalist exploitation - the bodies of our children. And investors are queuing up to invest in this growth industry - 15% minimum annual growth rate predicted worldwide. Scary.

 

[goinghome]

To see what is driving the trans industry, look no further than what has happened to our food. Who wants the boring old food that nature has given us - let's create an ultra-processed version. Who wants a boring old human body - we can give you an ultra-processed version of that too. The new frontier of capitalist exploitation - the bodies of our children. And investors are queuing up to invest in this growth industry - 15% minimum annual growth rate predicted worldwide. Scary.

More Perfect Union is a good discovery. I hope it's replicated a lot.

This one seems to fit here too.