What did Morrissey mean by 'the fourth sex'?

[Anonymous]

I would guess that he relates to (some) women emotionally, perhaps even intellectually, but not physically. He's quite harsh about us in general (going by the autobiography). Describing an entire gender as having "nothing to offer"? Beyond harsh... hateful even.

I took this to mean that men are supposed to pursue, pursue, pursue, and the prize is that the woman let's you f*** her while she just lies there doing nothing. Meanwhile, it's the man's job to do all the work, turn himself on, turn her on, get them both off -- because, after all, a guy will f*** anything, right? So he doesn't like this arrangement. If you think there are women who aren't like this and who don't expect the guy to do all the work, you'd be wrong.

 

[realitybites]

I would guess that he relates to (some) women emotionally, perhaps even intellectually, but not physically. He's quite harsh about us in general (going by the autobiography). Describing an entire gender as having "nothing to offer"? Beyond harsh... hateful even.

I agree that his descriptions are quite unflattering. That is why I am now 100% convinced that he has no desire to be female or feels like he is a woman trapped in a man's body as one person in this thread suggested. (I never thought this was the case, btw.)


I think you may be correct... that he is attracted to women on those levels but probably not physically... sexually. Makes the most sense based on the evidence. But I still think he would say that one can also be sexually attracted to the opposite sex as well... and fall under the humasexual umbrella. He just isn't.

 

[Anonymous]

I would guess that he relates to (some) women emotionally, perhaps even intellectually, but not physically. He's quite harsh about us in general (going by the autobiography). Describing an entire gender as having "nothing to offer"? Beyond harsh... hateful even.

I am really offended by some of the remarks he makes about females, and his comments about women seem to be aimed at aspects of their appearance that he finds unattractive. For someone who was supposedly influenced by feminism, there are alarming hints of misogyny in this book. Some of the comments about women he encountered just seem downright cruel and unnecessary. And if he wanted to show in this book that he is not homosexual, but attracted to all, then he really has failed. His book does not indicate any romantic or sexual love towards women, only towards men, which, whatever you want to term it, is homosexuality. Is he ashamed of being gay?!
Maybe there was love for Linder, but that is unclear. The girl he wrote 'Half a Person' about, who he pined for for six years, is not mentioned. And the declaration of being in love with Kristeen Young could just pertain to her music, not her as a person. He does not seem to be a fourth sex, or 'humasexual'....just a gay man.....with a bitterness towards women. Perhaps he should issue a further statement to clarify that not only is he not homosexual, he's not a bitter misogynist, because I know I'm not the only one confused and offended.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree that his descriptions are quite unflattering. That is why I am now 100% convinced that he has no desire to be female or feels like he is a woman trapped in a man's body as one person in this thread suggested. (I never thought this was the case, btw.)


I think you may be correct... that he is attracted to women on those levels but probably not physically... sexually. Makes the most sense based on the evidence. But I still think he would say that one can also be sexually attracted to the opposite sex as well... and fall under the humasexual umbrella. He just isn't.

True and I 100% agree he doesn't want to be female or is a woman trapped in a man's body (whoever said that is woefully clueless about Morrissey). But, on the bolded point, I give him a small pass on that because he was talking as a 14 year old about sex with the local girls. He seems to describe himself as a late bloomer, and has said as much in interviews, where he's also said something about being able to be attracted to a good looking woman now (in the 90's I think?) 'like any man.' He also seems a bit judgmental regarding women's bodies off and on throughout the book, for whatever that's worth. In short I thought he was bi leaning towards men before I read it & that's what I think now. I do think he is perfectly capable of desiring women physically, it's just not something that happens often.

 

[Anonymous]

I can't get past him likening the vagina to "an open grave." Granted, his language tends toward the extreme but still...
I'm amazed that he was able to perform sexually with girls at all.

 

[realitybites]

True and I 100% agree he doesn't want to be female or is a woman trapped in a man's body (whoever said that is woefully clueless about Morrissey). But, on the bolded point, I give him a small pass on that because he was talking as a 14 year old about sex with the local girls. He seems to describe himself as a late bloomer, and has said as much in interviews, where he's also said something about being able to be attracted to a good looking woman now (in the 90's I think?) 'like any man.' He also seems a bit judgmental regarding women's bodies off and on throughout the book, for whatever that's worth. In short I thought he was bi leaning towards men before I read it & that's what I think now. I do think he is perfectly capable of desiring women physically, it's just not something that happens often.

CrystalGeezer was/is convinced he was talking about gender with regards to the fourth sex. I agree that she knows very little about Morrissey--the man. This thread is an interesting read (to me, anyhow). You may want to give it a look if you get some free time.

I have only read the first 150 pages of Autobiography so far. So perhaps his tone towards women softens. Maybe I shouldn't chime in before reading it in its entirety. But ya know how difficult that can be, no? I did just read a passage that seems a bit cruel. Though who hasn't had these kind of thoughts? Today they are regarded as politically incorrect--if voiced or written. It was brave for him to admit to having them and submitting them in print for eternity. He was an adult when he formulated this opinion...

"At Stretford Jobcenter a fat-assed woman sits before me demanding to know why I left my golden position in the underground warrens of the Inland Revenue. She is a Dunlop bloater of such walrus proportions that I find it difficult to answer her. ‘Look at you,’ she says, ‘can’t you tidy yourself up?’ and she shifts her full-figured pigginess, with lard-arms waving and jelly-legs struggling... and I to the appointed place."

 

[realitybites]

I can't get past him likening the vagina to "an open grave." Granted, his language tends toward the extreme but still...
I'm amazed that he was able to perform sexually with girls at all.

When I read that, Pretty Girls Make Graves came to mind. Hmm?

 

[sweetness522]

Very well said. I agree. He may desire the odd woman here or there. But then again we may all desire a person of the gender that we are not primarily attracted to if given the chance to meet that person. Most people never meet that person. Our sphere of meeting partners is narrow & in many cases for many folks limited to our local community.

True and I 100% agree he doesn't want to be female or is a woman trapped in a man's body (whoever said that is woefully clueless about Morrissey). But, on the bolded point, I give him a small pass on that because he was talking as a 14 year old about sex with the local girls. He seems to describe himself as a late bloomer, and has said as much in interviews, where he's also said something about being able to be attracted to a good looking woman now (in the 90's I think?) 'like any man.' He also seems a bit judgmental regarding women's bodies off and on throughout the book, for whatever that's worth. In short I thought he was bi leaning towards men before I read it & that's what I think now. I do think he is perfectly capable of desiring women physically, it's just not something that happens often.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, I thought of that right away and also something he wrote a few years ago about the girls he knew when he was a young man, "you could catch something deadly from them" - can't remember his wording exactly.