There is nothing inherently wrong with paedophilia

V

Virtuous MAP

Guest
Paedophiles or pedophiles can no more help who they're sexually attracted too then can heterosexuals or homosexuals and don't deserve to be executed. If being sexually attracted to children has a genetic component then it is a perfectly natural expression of human sexuality and should be considered a valid sexual orientation and normal behaviour.

There is nothing inherently wrong with paedophilia and provided paedophiles do not consummate their mutual attraction toward minors, they have harmed nobody and deserve to function as healthy and normal individuals in a society which both accepts and welcomes them.

Unfortunately paedophilia and child abuse are often conflated together although they are quite separate and the later is actually a rare occurrence despite what tabloid sensationalism would have you believe. Society wrongly conflates child abuse with paedophilia and assumes they are interchangeable. If someone is attracted to children but does not act on those urges they have committed no crime.

Unfortunately mass-hysteria surrounding paedophilia has induced a moral panic amplified by media outlets expounding lurid child abuse claims. Media outlets, mostly reactionary, are responsible for spreading bigotry and intolerance toward an already unfairly maligned minority. Regrettably disproportionate media coverage of this subject has been a factor in incidents of vigilantism.
 

rifke

bodhisattva
i agree that you shouldnt condemn people simply for being sexually attracted to young people so long as they dont act on it. the problem is you cant ever trust them anywhere near 100% not to act on it, and if acted upon then the results can be very damaging, since in no situation where such a thing is acted upon could there ever be said to be consent, and therefore they cannot exist in society like everyone else. i dont think they're necessarily bad people though. and in cases where people are attracted to those around the age of 12, i actually think in the whole scope of history and biology that's quite normal, although in our modern age it does show a dire lack of sophistication, and that alone is enough not to make me want to have anything to do with such people.
 

Light Housework

useless eater
This is a very brave post.
I felt brave when I blurted "Nice ass, kid!", to a pre-adolescent girl whose ass reminded me of my own at her age. A baseball player ass. I was wishing her well in a world that raped my own ass numerous times. I hope she's better protected than I was.
 

rifke

bodhisattva
I've watched YouTube videos where pedophiles have been confronted by vigilantes. I can only describe it as a controlled panic. You know their world has been wrecked. You know it will never be the same.
whose world? the pedophiles or the vigilantes?
 

The_Beginning

Well-Known Member
Paedophiles or pedophiles can no more help who they're sexually attracted too then can heterosexuals or homosexuals and don't deserve to be executed. If being sexually attracted to children has a genetic component then it is a perfectly natural expression of human sexuality and should be considered a valid sexual orientation and normal behaviour.

There is nothing inherently wrong with paedophilia and provided paedophiles do not consummate their mutual attraction toward minors, they have harmed nobody and deserve to function as healthy and normal individuals in a society which both accepts and welcomes them.

Unfortunately paedophilia and child abuse are often conflated together although they are quite separate and the later is actually a rare occurrence despite what tabloid sensationalism would have you believe. Society wrongly conflates child abuse with paedophilia and assumes they are interchangeable. If someone is attracted to children but does not act on those urges they have committed no crime.

Unfortunately mass-hysteria surrounding paedophilia has induced a moral panic amplified by media outlets expounding lurid child abuse claims. Media outlets, mostly reactionary, are responsible for spreading bigotry and intolerance toward an already unfairly maligned minority. Regrettably disproportionate media coverage of this subject has been a factor in incidents of vigilantism.
There are a lot of nice buzzwords in here, but no. This is essentially the equivalent of arguing "there is nothing inherently wrong with racism" so long as it isn't "acted upon." Well, what does "acted upon" even mean in an operational sense? That's a significant debate in itself before we even get into debating the larger topic.

Furthermore, saying people "cannot help" X is a terrible argument. I "cannot help" being depressed; I "cannot help" being racist; I "cannot help" but have angry outbursts at the slightest provocation. Again, no. Human development is all about improvement. It may well be impossible to totally "cure" a pedophile in the same sense that it may be impossible to "cure" a person with homicidal tendencies, but that doesn't mean that society ought to excuse those tendencies and allow them to become worse rather than making attempts to at least mitigate them.

Now, the other major point of contention that I recognize immediately is your argument that pedophilia is not inherently wrong. Well, again, as a society, we have decided that racism is inherently wrong, even if it is not expressed. I don't see a compelling argument for pedophilia or racism being inherently right. I would think that, given that the actions associated with pedophilia and racism are inherently wrong, the development of those actions via internal thoughts, societal acceptance, etc. would have to be inherently wrong as well, logically speaking, or else the subsequent actions would have to be permissible.

Alternatively, your use of the word "inherently" might provide cover for your argument. One could say that society has merely decided that certain things are wrong and there is nothing inherent to that sense of wrongness. I would disagree. Fostering any acceptance of that which is fundamentally morally reprehensible is a threat to the entire system. If you make exceptions for certain ideologies that rely on racism, you are fostering an environment in which certain racist actions will be more readily accepted. In fact, we are seeing this process play out today. The same thing would happen, and is, to some extent, with pedophilia.
 

rifke

bodhisattva
There are a lot of nice buzzwords in here, but no. This is essentially the equivalent of arguing "there is nothing inherently wrong with racism" so long as it isn't "acted upon." Well, what does "acted upon" even mean in an operational sense? That's a significant debate in itself before we even get into debating the larger topic.

Furthermore, saying people "cannot help" X is a terrible argument. I "cannot help" being depressed; I "cannot help" being racist; I "cannot help" but have angry outbursts at the slightest provocation. Again, no. Human development is all about improvement. It may well be impossible to totally "cure" a pedophile in the same sense that it may be impossible to "cure" a person with homicidal tendencies, but that doesn't mean that society ought to excuse those tendencies and allow them to become worse rather than making attempts to at least mitigate them.

Now, the other major point of contention that I recognize immediately is your argument that pedophilia is not inherently wrong. Well, again, as a society, we have decided that racism is inherently wrong, even if it is not expressed. I don't see a compelling argument for pedophilia or racism being inherently right. I would think that, given that the actions associated with pedophilia and racism are inherently wrong, the development of those actions via internal thoughts, societal acceptance, etc. would have to be inherently wrong as well, logically speaking, or else the subsequent actions would have to be permissible.

Alternatively, your use of the word "inherently" might provide cover for your argument. One could say that society has merely decided that certain things are wrong and there is nothing inherent to that sense of wrongness. I would disagree. Fostering any acceptance of that which is fundamentally morally reprehensible is a threat to the entire system. If you make exceptions for certain ideologies that rely on racism, you are fostering an environment in which certain racist actions will be more readily accepted. In fact, we are seeing this process play out today. The same thing would happen, and is, to some extent happening, with pedophilia.
pedophilia is wrong, but the person who harbours such attractions is not someone who should be condemned because no one can choose their sexual orientation or what they are attracted to. you're creating a false comparison by saying it's like racism. it's much more correct to say that its like being attracted to one race over another, and for many people they will be attracted to some races more than others, and this is not considered racism.
 

Light Housework

useless eater
There are a lot of nice buzzwords in here, but no. This is essentially the equivalent of arguing "there is nothing inherently wrong with racism" so long as it isn't "acted upon." Well, what does "acted upon" even mean in an operational sense? That's a significant debate in itself before we even get into debating the larger topic.

Furthermore, saying people "cannot help" X is a terrible argument. I "cannot help" being depressed; I "cannot help" being racist; I "cannot help" but have angry outbursts at the slightest provocation. Again, no. Human development is all about improvement. It may well be impossible to totally "cure" a pedophile in the same sense that it may be impossible to "cure" a person with homicidal tendencies, but that doesn't mean that society ought to excuse those tendencies and allow them to become worse rather than making attempts to at least mitigate them.

Now, the other major point of contention that I recognize immediately is your argument that pedophilia is not inherently wrong. Well, again, as a society, we have decided that racism is inherently wrong, even if it is not expressed. I don't see a compelling argument for pedophilia or racism being inherently right. I would think that, given that the actions associated with pedophilia and racism are inherently wrong, the development of those actions via internal thoughts, societal acceptance, etc. would have to be inherently wrong as well, logically speaking, or else the subsequent actions would have to be permissible.

Alternatively, your use of the word "inherently" might provide cover for your argument. One could say that society has merely decided that certain things are wrong and there is nothing inherent to that sense of wrongness. I would disagree. Fostering any acceptance of that which is fundamentally morally reprehensible is a threat to the entire system. If you make exceptions for certain ideologies that rely on racism, you are fostering an environment in which certain racist actions will be more readily accepted. In fact, we are seeing this process play out today. The same thing would happen, and is, to some extent happening, with pedophilia.
To understand why I was raped as a pre-adolescent, as an adolescent, as a teen, and as an adult, I've had to indulge fantasies of being a rapist, using my clitorus to fuel the fire. I think I understand now, and I'm not sorry for having fantasized about being sadistic.
 

rifke

bodhisattva
To understand why I was raped as a pre-adolescent, as an adolescent, as a teen, and as an adult, I've had to indulge fantasies of being a rapist, using my clitorus to fuel the fire. I think I understand now, and I'm not sorry for having fantasized about being sadistic.
save it for your group therapy session
 

The_Beginning

Well-Known Member
pedophilia is wrong, but the person who harbours such attractions is not someone who should be condemned because no one can choose their sexual orientation or what they are attracted to. you're creating a false comparison by saying it's like racism. it's much more correct to say that its like being attracted to one race over another, and for many people they will be attracted to some races more than others, and this is not considered racism.
You say it is wrong, but you are keen to make allowances. How long until you make so many allowances that your argument becomes "pedophilia is right" instead? This is more of a rhetorical question. I believe that this becomes a slippery slope that will lead to an avalanche.
 

The_Beginning

Well-Known Member
To understand why I was raped as a pre-adolescent, as an adolescent, as a teen, and as an adult, I've had to indulge fantasies of being a rapist, using my clitorus to fuel the fire. I think I understand now, and I'm not sorry for having fantasized about being sadistic.
Still, I'm sure you would have rather not had to fantasize about such, which is my entire point. Pedophilia has to be stopped in its tracks. Compromises cannot be made.
 

rifke

bodhisattva
You say it is wrong, but you are keen to make allowances. How long until you make so many allowances that your argument becomes "pedophilia is right" instead? This is more of a rhetorical question. I believe that this becomes a slippery slope that will lead to an avalanche.
im not willing to make any allowances?

it should not be acted upon full stop.

but, its not a persons fault if that's what they are attracted to. it's very possible that they might hate it too.
 

Verso

Well-Known Member
There are a lot of nice buzzwords in here, but no. This is essentially the equivalent of arguing "there is nothing inherently wrong with racism" so long as it isn't "acted upon." Well, what does "acted upon" even mean in an operational sense? That's a significant debate in itself before we even get into debating the larger topic.

Furthermore, saying people "cannot help" X is a terrible argument. I "cannot help" being depressed; I "cannot help" being racist; I "cannot help" but have angry outbursts at the slightest provocation. Again, no. Human development is all about improvement. It may well be impossible to totally "cure" a pedophile in the same sense that it may be impossible to "cure" a person with homicidal tendencies, but that doesn't mean that society ought to excuse those tendencies and allow them to become worse rather than making attempts to at least mitigate them.

Now, the other major point of contention that I recognize immediately is your argument that pedophilia is not inherently wrong. Well, again, as a society, we have decided that racism is inherently wrong, even if it is not expressed. I don't see a compelling argument for pedophilia or racism being inherently right. I would think that, given that the actions associated with pedophilia and racism are inherently wrong, the development of those actions via internal thoughts, societal acceptance, etc. would have to be inherently wrong as well, logically speaking, or else the subsequent actions would have to be permissible.

Alternatively, your use of the word "inherently" might provide cover for your argument. One could say that society has merely decided that certain things are wrong and there is nothing inherent to that sense of wrongness. I would disagree. Fostering any acceptance of that which is fundamentally morally reprehensible is a threat to the entire system. If you make exceptions for certain ideologies that rely on racism, you are fostering an environment in which certain racist actions will be more readily accepted. In fact, we are seeing this process play out today. The same thing would happen, and is, to some extent, with pedophilia.
The analogy to racism is completely off-base. “Curing” pedophilia is akin to “curing” heterosexuality. It’s an innate orientation, not an odious opinion.
 

Light Housework

useless eater
Still, I'm sure you would have rather not had to fantasize about such, which is my entire point. Pedophilia has to be stopped in its tracks. Compromises cannot be made.
I believe people who will be criminal in fantasy are like t-cells to an immune system. They can best ferret out the actual perpetrators and expose them to the light of day.
 
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