Seymour Stein on Morrissey and Johnny Marr in Times interview

[originally posted in the thread Seymour Stein book "Siren Song" includes The Smiths]

An interview with Stein from the Times of London -

Seymour Stein: the man who signed Madonna (and the rest) - The Times (paywall)
The US pop mogul used Concorde to see English bands and Elton John used his spare room. Sarfraz Manzoor meets the king of Eighties pop

Excerpt:

Two years after signing Depeche Mode, Stein received a phone call from Geoff Travis, who founded the Rough Trade record store and ran a record label of the same name. "He said, 'I have just seen this band and I am so in love with them,' " Stein says. "He then said, 'The only thing I can tell you is that I believe you will love them even more than I do.' " The band were playing in two days' time, so Stein again hopped on Concorde, this time to London, and went to the ICA in London to see the Smiths. Stein describes Morrissey, the band's singer, as "one of the greatest artists I have ever worked with", but he also writes that he "wondered if maybe Morrissey harboured a deep unrequited love for Johnny Marr". What made you write that, I ask. "I do have that feeling," he says. "I could tell. I am pretty sure of it. I could see it and to tell you the truth I felt sorry for both of them because I didn't think Johnny was gay - and he wasn't - and I could feel for Morrissey."

Here's the text for those who can't access the article:

Seymour Stein, the man who signed Madonna (and the rest);
The US music mogul helped to launch the career of Talking Heads, while Elton John stayed in his spare room.

Sarfraz Manzoor meets the king of Eighties pop


It was the summer of 1982 and Seymour Stein was in a New York hospital recovering from an infection. The 40-year-old boss of Sire Records was listening to a demo sent by a friend. Mark Kamins was a New York DJ who had been badgering Stein to let him produce a record. "I thought he had great potential," Stein says, "so I gave him $18,000 to do six demos."

It was the third of those demos that Stein listened to in hospital - a track called Everybody by a young woman who called herself Madonna. "This girl knocked me off my feet," he says (presumably he wasn't lying down at this stage). He rang Kamins and said he wanted to meet Madonna that evening. "I was worried that someone else would sign her," he says. When Madonna arrived at the hospital they agreed on a record deal there and then. "Whoever got Madonna would have success with her," Stein says, "but I was the first to spot her and appreciate her."

It is early evening in Rough Trade East, a record store in east London, and I am talking to Stein before an appearance at the store to promote his memoir, Siren Song. He is 76 and somewhat unsure on his feet - he walks with a stick and is helped to his seat by his daughter, Mandy - but his reputation as one of the greatest music men in history is assured. This is the man who not only launched the careers of Madonna, the Ramones, Talking Heads, the Pretenders, Ice-T and Seal, but also introduced the Cure, Depeche Mode, Echo & the Bunnymen and the Smiths to American audiences.

Stein's career spans the history of pop music, from working for Billboard magazine and clubbing in Studio 54 to being inducted in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, and he charts it in Siren Song. It begins in Forties Brooklyn when, as a small boy, he would write down the names of the songs he heard in the weekly chart countdown. Aged 14 he was hired by Billboard to work after school and during the holidays. Later he was headhunted by the record label boss Syd Nathan, who asked Stein, then barely 20, to go on the road with James Brown. "Syd wanted me to keep James out of trouble," he says. "James really liked me. He was very smart, but he was very tough with his band."

Stein co-founded Sire Records in 1966 and by then had started visiting Britain. One night in February 1967 he was in a London club called Middle Earth with Linda Keith, who was dating Keith Richards. Linda Keith told him that a friend of hers was playing - he turned out to be Jimi Hendrix. "What I most remember about that night was that Jimi took his guitar, which I knew belonged to Keith Richards, and broke it into smithereens," Stein says. The guitar did not survive the concert and nor, when she later told her boyfriend, did Linda Keith's relationship with Keith Richards.

On another trip to London Stein met a young EMI staffer, John Reid, who introduced him to his new lover, a musician named Reg Dwight.

Dwight would change his name to Elton John and became a global superstar; he and Stein remained friends. "Elton found staying in hotels annoying," Stein says, "so when he came to New York he would stay in my spare room." On Thanksgiving Day in 1974, before they were due to play Madison Square Garden, Elton and his band visited Stein's apartment with John Lennon, who was to be their special guest at the concert. "Elton was so excited because he idolised John Lennon," Stein says. Everyone ate turkey and pumpkin pie before Lennon asked for silence as he handed Elton a present - it was a gleaming cock ring.

By the mid-Seventies Sire was on its way to becoming one of the music industry's most influential record labels and gaining a reputation for championing punk and new wave - a term that Stein popularised - with acts such as the Ramones and Talking Heads.

Stein's love of British music kept him involved with the music scene across the Atlantic. In the early hours of April 28, 1981, he was flicking through the NME when he came across an article profiling a new English pop group. They seemed worth checking out, but there was a problem: they were playing in Basildon that night and Stein was in New York. "I called up at 6.30 in the morning and asked how much was the Concorde to London for that day," he says. "It was $8,000." Stein flew into Heathrow and was driven to a Basildon nightclub called Sweeneys where he saw the band play. He signed them. Depeche Mode went on to sell more than 100 million records and still fill stadiums around the world.

Two years after signing Depeche Mode, Stein received a phone call from Geoff Travis, who founded the Rough Trade record store and ran a record label of the same name. "He said, 'I have just seen this band and I am so in love with them,' " Stein says. "He then said, 'The only thing I can tell you is that I believe you will love them even more than I do.' " The band were playing in two days' time, so Stein again hopped on Concorde, this time to London, and went to the ICA in London to see the Smiths. Stein describes Morrissey, the band's singer, as "one of the greatest artists I have ever worked with", but he also writes that he "wondered if maybe Morrissey harboured a deep unrequited love for Johnny Marr". What made you write that, I ask. "I do have that feeling," he says. "I could tell. I am pretty sure of it. I could see it and to tell you the truth I felt sorry for both of them because I didn't think Johnny was gay - and he wasn't - and I could feel for Morrissey."

Stein knew he was gay since he was a teenager, but the cultural pressures of his Jewish background - which stressed the importance of marriage and children - led him to date women while also secretly having gay encounters. On his first date with Linda Adler, in early 1971, they ended up sleeping together. He later opened up to her about his sexuality and in Siren Song he describes how, on learning that her boyfriend was gay, Adler "fell into silent shock for about ten minutes ... then erupted into wails of 'No! No! No!', while punching her own head with two clenched fists". All of which makes it surprising that, later that year, the couple married and went on to have two daughters.

Stein also relates a story about a time he met a man with whom he had "the most powerful sex I'd ever experienced". His wife found out, lured the man to a hotel and told him that unless he had sex with her she would tell all of New York that he was gay. The man did what he was told and later she returned to Stein and said, "Do you know who I f***ed, Seymour? I'll give you one guess."

"Linda knew how to get back at me," Stein says. "She did it to hurt me."

Linda was murdered in 2007, bludgeoned to death by her personal assistant. In 2013 Stein's daughter, Samantha, died of brain cancer, aged 40. In his book Stein refers to himself as "the world's most absent father". Do you regret that, I ask. "I have guilt about that," he says. "I could have been a better father. I could have been a better husband, but I had no choice. The main thing in my life was music and this came first."

Stein has been in the music business for more than six decades and still travels the globe in search of the next Morrissey and the next Madonna. Madonna turns 60 next month and when I ask Stein the secret of her longevity, he looks at me as if I have lost my mind. "Isn't it obvious? She is one of the smartest and most talented people. She is very, very, very special."

Many of the artists Stein has signed are rightly recognised as very special, even geniuses, but it takes a certain gift to be able to consistently identify and champion talent. If Stein is a genius, then he is a modest one. "I don't have easily definable skills or talents," he says. "I have ears. I am a fan, I love music and always have."

Siren Song: My Life in Music by Seymour Stein is published by St Martin's Press, £22.99

43972_seymour_stein_rough_trade.jpg


Stein at Rough Trade record shop in London
JOONEY WOODWARD FOR THE TIMES
 
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In his boring book, DramaJ wrote about kissing up a storm with some dude. But ONLY ONCE !:lbf:
Ok DramaJ :lbf:
 
I don't think he's ever hidden the fact that he is pansexual, but with a stronger preference for males.

It strikes me as strange that some cannot see this...
For some reason I have a really hard time picturing him enthusiastically bedding a woman. Of course this is speculation, but he strikes me as a person who struggles to reconcile his homosexuality against a Catholic upbringing that warned him that a gay life is a sure ticket to unhappiness and eventual hellfire.

Editing to add- but it doesn't and shouldn't matter. I'm sure he's true to himself when prying eyes aren't there to intrude.
 
For some reason I have a really hard time picturing him enthusiastically bedding a woman. Of course this is speculation, but he strikes me as a person who struggles to reconcile his homosexuality against a Catholic upbringing that warned him that a gay life is a sure ticket to unhappiness and eventual hellfire.

Editing to add- but it doesn't and shouldn't matter. I'm sure he's true to himself when prying eyes aren't there to intrude.
I think there's a strong probability that anyone who could write the line 'honeypots sprawled like open graves' just isn't a vagina kind of guy. Not even on the odd Huma occasion.
 
If Morrissey would just come out as a good old fashioned gay guy you would never hear these paedo comments.
The priest collar in that music video made me think of creepy Irish priests if you know what I mean. He does himself no favors.
 
For some reason I have a really hard time picturing him enthusiastically bedding a woman. Of course this is speculation, but he strikes me as a person who struggles to reconcile his homosexuality against a Catholic upbringing that warned him that a gay life is a sure ticket to unhappiness and eventual hellfire.

Editing to add- but it doesn't and shouldn't matter. I'm sure he's true to himself when prying eyes aren't there to intrude.
As a gay man he never eats any cheese or seafood like shrimp and crayfish. I do so I just had a phase as a teen.
 
I think there's a strong probability that anyone who could write the line 'honeypots sprawled like open graves' just isn't a vagina kind of guy. Not even on the odd Huma occasion.

So you don't think Morrissey would like to be a bee-keeping gravedigger?
 
Morrissey was not in love with Johnny. Seymore Slime is the only one who ever said this. How much time did he ever even spend with the two of them. Minutes maybe. Linda sounds like an evil warthog and Seymore can't be any better. Trust me. Sounds like he is sticking to his story though, with nothing to back it up. Zilch.What a lowlife. Maybe his personal assistant can straighten him out. It would be great to hear Morrissey address this guy seeing as he has repeated this false claim. Come on Morrissey! Nail him good!
 
Whatever the truth of that, Johnny's marriage means he could never speak about it.

I think he is straight, but I was curious about the part of his autobiography where he recounts his gay best friend kissing him "for what seemed like a very long time" as a teenager. Before telling him, "Don't worry, it won't happen again."

Maybe the point is not Marr's actual sexual orientation but the affirmation about his straightness made by this guy. Only someone who was rejected under that excuse can affirm it with so much confidence. Maybe Johnny Marr just didn't like Mr Stein. It seems the members of The Smiths did prefer hotel rooms and not Mr Stein's spare room after all. Good for them if that was the case. Many people who have a piece of power on their field can't tolerate unrequited love or lust. Too much casting couch everywhere, and too much silence protecting it. Who knows?

 
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Maybe the point is not Marr's actual sexual orientation but the affirmation about his straightness made by this guy. Only someone who was rejected under that excuse can affirm it with so much confidence. Maybe Johnny Marr just didn't like Mr Stein. It seems the members of The Smiths did prefer hotel rooms and not Mr Stein's spare room after all. Good for them if that was the case. Many people who have a piece of power on their field can't tolerate unrequited love or lust. Too much casting couch everywhere, and too much silence protecting it. Who knows?



I'm lost now. Are you suggesting that Stein was after Johnny, but Johnny rejected him? Wouldn't Marr's sexuality be presumed simply due to Angie? (Morrissey aside).

"Angel, Angel" says it all.
 
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I remember Johnny presenting an award to Mick Rock, the photographer, some years back (maybe 2004, 2005) - Mick grabbed his face and gave him quite the smooch when he came to the stage.
 
I'm lost now. Are you suggesting that Stein was after Johnny, but Johnny rejected him? Wouldn't Marr's sexuality be presumed simply due to Angie? (Morrissey aside).

"Angel, Angel" says it all.

Hmmm, interesting about Seymour Stein and Johnny. Many gay men are attracted to straight-acting men. They don't like guys that are obviously gay.

I've often wondered about Johnny getting all dressed up to go and knock on Morrissey's door with a friend for protection. I'm sure their mutual friend Billy Duffy clued Johnny in as to Morrissey's orientation. I wonder if Johnny made sure to be as attractive as possible to snare himself a lead singer - only it worked too well? That might be part of the dynamic, some guilty feelings on Johnny's part.
 
Hmmm, interesting about Seymour Stein and Johnny. Many gay men are attracted to straight-acting men. They don't like guys that are obviously gay.

I've often wondered about Johnny getting all dressed up to go and knock on Morrissey's door with a friend for protection. I'm sure their mutual friend Billy Duffy clued Johnny in as to Morrissey's orientation. I wonder if Johnny made sure to be as attractive as possible to snare himself a lead singer - only it worked too well? That might be part of the dynamic, some guilty feelings on Johnny's part.

Who is the gay dude? DramaJ of course. Notice his SUPER GAY HAIR FLIP!! That means that you
are looking for a boyfriend, Seymour FLIPPED over DramaJs Gay HAIR FLIP:flowers:
Look at that FLIP STICKING OUT THERE!!doh: :lbf:

johnny%2Bmarr%2Bmorrissey%2Bthe%2Bsmiths%2B1980s%2Bray%2Bban%2Bwayfarer%2BII%2Bsunglasses.jpg
 
Hmmm, interesting about Seymour Stein and Johnny. Many gay men are attracted to straight-acting men. They don't like guys that are obviously gay.

I've often wondered about Johnny getting all dressed up to go and knock on Morrissey's door with a friend for protection. I'm sure their mutual friend Billy Duffy clued Johnny in as to Morrissey's orientation. I wonder if Johnny made sure to be as attractive as possible to snare himself a lead singer - only it worked too well? That might be part of the dynamic, some guilty feelings on Johnny's part.

Straight acting? DramaJ? WtF, what planet do you live in? First the girly look, then the GAY HAIR FLIP look,then:handpointright::guardsman::handpointleft:, aka the bizarre GAY PLASTIC hair look...then kissing up a storm-ACCORDING TO HIS BORING BOOK-with some dude for 45 minutes.
HUGE CLUE =book is called Set the BOY Free. Dead giveaway.
Whos gay?:raisinghand: Right answer, DramaJ.:fist:
 
Straight acting? DramaJ? WtF, what planet do you live in? First the girly look, then the GAY HAIR FLIP look,then:handpointright::guardsman::handpointleft:, aka the bizarre GAY PLASTIC hair look...then kissing up a storm-ACCORDING TO HIS BORING BOOK-with some dude for 45 minutes.
HUGE CLUE =book is called Set the BOY Free. Dead giveaway.
Whos gay?:raisinghand: Right answer, DramaJ.:fist:

If Drama J was gay, we wouldn't have had half The Smiths lyrics (hell, their whole ouevre) and Morrissey might have ended up a passably content human being... Very nice, very nice, very nice but maybe in the next world. :cool:
 
Hmmm, interesting about Seymour Stein and Johnny. Many gay men are attracted to straight-acting men. They don't like guys that are obviously gay.

I've often wondered about Johnny getting all dressed up to go and knock on Morrissey's door with a friend for protection. I'm sure their mutual friend Billy Duffy clued Johnny in as to Morrissey's orientation. I wonder if Johnny made sure to be as attractive as possible to snare himself a lead singer - only it worked too well? That might be part of the dynamic, some guilty feelings on Johnny's part.

Absolutely warped idea but I can't helping laughing. Did Marr even know much about Moz? Imagine if he'd turned up, all quiffed and dressed to impress, to be confronted by... some middle-aged fella resembling Brian Blessed or something. "Do come in, darling!"
 

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