Seymour Stein on Morrissey and Johnny Marr in Times interview

[originally posted in the thread Seymour Stein book "Siren Song" includes The Smiths]

An interview with Stein from the Times of London -

Seymour Stein: the man who signed Madonna (and the rest) - The Times (paywall)
The US pop mogul used Concorde to see English bands and Elton John used his spare room. Sarfraz Manzoor meets the king of Eighties pop

Excerpt:

Two years after signing Depeche Mode, Stein received a phone call from Geoff Travis, who founded the Rough Trade record store and ran a record label of the same name. "He said, 'I have just seen this band and I am so in love with them,' " Stein says. "He then said, 'The only thing I can tell you is that I believe you will love them even more than I do.' " The band were playing in two days' time, so Stein again hopped on Concorde, this time to London, and went to the ICA in London to see the Smiths. Stein describes Morrissey, the band's singer, as "one of the greatest artists I have ever worked with", but he also writes that he "wondered if maybe Morrissey harboured a deep unrequited love for Johnny Marr". What made you write that, I ask. "I do have that feeling," he says. "I could tell. I am pretty sure of it. I could see it and to tell you the truth I felt sorry for both of them because I didn't think Johnny was gay - and he wasn't - and I could feel for Morrissey."

Here's the text for those who can't access the article:

Seymour Stein, the man who signed Madonna (and the rest);
The US music mogul helped to launch the career of Talking Heads, while Elton John stayed in his spare room.

Sarfraz Manzoor meets the king of Eighties pop


It was the summer of 1982 and Seymour Stein was in a New York hospital recovering from an infection. The 40-year-old boss of Sire Records was listening to a demo sent by a friend. Mark Kamins was a New York DJ who had been badgering Stein to let him produce a record. "I thought he had great potential," Stein says, "so I gave him $18,000 to do six demos."

It was the third of those demos that Stein listened to in hospital - a track called Everybody by a young woman who called herself Madonna. "This girl knocked me off my feet," he says (presumably he wasn't lying down at this stage). He rang Kamins and said he wanted to meet Madonna that evening. "I was worried that someone else would sign her," he says. When Madonna arrived at the hospital they agreed on a record deal there and then. "Whoever got Madonna would have success with her," Stein says, "but I was the first to spot her and appreciate her."

It is early evening in Rough Trade East, a record store in east London, and I am talking to Stein before an appearance at the store to promote his memoir, Siren Song. He is 76 and somewhat unsure on his feet - he walks with a stick and is helped to his seat by his daughter, Mandy - but his reputation as one of the greatest music men in history is assured. This is the man who not only launched the careers of Madonna, the Ramones, Talking Heads, the Pretenders, Ice-T and Seal, but also introduced the Cure, Depeche Mode, Echo & the Bunnymen and the Smiths to American audiences.

Stein's career spans the history of pop music, from working for Billboard magazine and clubbing in Studio 54 to being inducted in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, and he charts it in Siren Song. It begins in Forties Brooklyn when, as a small boy, he would write down the names of the songs he heard in the weekly chart countdown. Aged 14 he was hired by Billboard to work after school and during the holidays. Later he was headhunted by the record label boss Syd Nathan, who asked Stein, then barely 20, to go on the road with James Brown. "Syd wanted me to keep James out of trouble," he says. "James really liked me. He was very smart, but he was very tough with his band."

Stein co-founded Sire Records in 1966 and by then had started visiting Britain. One night in February 1967 he was in a London club called Middle Earth with Linda Keith, who was dating Keith Richards. Linda Keith told him that a friend of hers was playing - he turned out to be Jimi Hendrix. "What I most remember about that night was that Jimi took his guitar, which I knew belonged to Keith Richards, and broke it into smithereens," Stein says. The guitar did not survive the concert and nor, when she later told her boyfriend, did Linda Keith's relationship with Keith Richards.

On another trip to London Stein met a young EMI staffer, John Reid, who introduced him to his new lover, a musician named Reg Dwight.

Dwight would change his name to Elton John and became a global superstar; he and Stein remained friends. "Elton found staying in hotels annoying," Stein says, "so when he came to New York he would stay in my spare room." On Thanksgiving Day in 1974, before they were due to play Madison Square Garden, Elton and his band visited Stein's apartment with John Lennon, who was to be their special guest at the concert. "Elton was so excited because he idolised John Lennon," Stein says. Everyone ate turkey and pumpkin pie before Lennon asked for silence as he handed Elton a present - it was a gleaming cock ring.

By the mid-Seventies Sire was on its way to becoming one of the music industry's most influential record labels and gaining a reputation for championing punk and new wave - a term that Stein popularised - with acts such as the Ramones and Talking Heads.

Stein's love of British music kept him involved with the music scene across the Atlantic. In the early hours of April 28, 1981, he was flicking through the NME when he came across an article profiling a new English pop group. They seemed worth checking out, but there was a problem: they were playing in Basildon that night and Stein was in New York. "I called up at 6.30 in the morning and asked how much was the Concorde to London for that day," he says. "It was $8,000." Stein flew into Heathrow and was driven to a Basildon nightclub called Sweeneys where he saw the band play. He signed them. Depeche Mode went on to sell more than 100 million records and still fill stadiums around the world.

Two years after signing Depeche Mode, Stein received a phone call from Geoff Travis, who founded the Rough Trade record store and ran a record label of the same name. "He said, 'I have just seen this band and I am so in love with them,' " Stein says. "He then said, 'The only thing I can tell you is that I believe you will love them even more than I do.' " The band were playing in two days' time, so Stein again hopped on Concorde, this time to London, and went to the ICA in London to see the Smiths. Stein describes Morrissey, the band's singer, as "one of the greatest artists I have ever worked with", but he also writes that he "wondered if maybe Morrissey harboured a deep unrequited love for Johnny Marr". What made you write that, I ask. "I do have that feeling," he says. "I could tell. I am pretty sure of it. I could see it and to tell you the truth I felt sorry for both of them because I didn't think Johnny was gay - and he wasn't - and I could feel for Morrissey."

Stein knew he was gay since he was a teenager, but the cultural pressures of his Jewish background - which stressed the importance of marriage and children - led him to date women while also secretly having gay encounters. On his first date with Linda Adler, in early 1971, they ended up sleeping together. He later opened up to her about his sexuality and in Siren Song he describes how, on learning that her boyfriend was gay, Adler "fell into silent shock for about ten minutes ... then erupted into wails of 'No! No! No!', while punching her own head with two clenched fists". All of which makes it surprising that, later that year, the couple married and went on to have two daughters.

Stein also relates a story about a time he met a man with whom he had "the most powerful sex I'd ever experienced". His wife found out, lured the man to a hotel and told him that unless he had sex with her she would tell all of New York that he was gay. The man did what he was told and later she returned to Stein and said, "Do you know who I f***ed, Seymour? I'll give you one guess."

"Linda knew how to get back at me," Stein says. "She did it to hurt me."

Linda was murdered in 2007, bludgeoned to death by her personal assistant. In 2013 Stein's daughter, Samantha, died of brain cancer, aged 40. In his book Stein refers to himself as "the world's most absent father". Do you regret that, I ask. "I have guilt about that," he says. "I could have been a better father. I could have been a better husband, but I had no choice. The main thing in my life was music and this came first."

Stein has been in the music business for more than six decades and still travels the globe in search of the next Morrissey and the next Madonna. Madonna turns 60 next month and when I ask Stein the secret of her longevity, he looks at me as if I have lost my mind. "Isn't it obvious? She is one of the smartest and most talented people. She is very, very, very special."

Many of the artists Stein has signed are rightly recognised as very special, even geniuses, but it takes a certain gift to be able to consistently identify and champion talent. If Stein is a genius, then he is a modest one. "I don't have easily definable skills or talents," he says. "I have ears. I am a fan, I love music and always have."

Siren Song: My Life in Music by Seymour Stein is published by St Martin's Press, £22.99

43972_seymour_stein_rough_trade.jpg


Stein at Rough Trade record shop in London
JOONEY WOODWARD FOR THE TIMES
 
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God, who cares? It isn’t anyone’s business whom Morrissey is with, whom he likes, and his feelings, past or present, about Marr.

Morrissey’s love life is the least interesting thing about him. His misogyny, political views, and racism define him more than his sexuality.
:drama::drama:
Seymour?
 
What the f*** do you know about what Morrissey is “into”? Your perpetual tongue-wagging and lapping up his ass doesn’t make you a source.

I’ll take Johnny f***in’ Marr’s ethic, musicality, styling and full head of hair over Morrissey’s trudging, graceless balding, weak-kneed, pussy-ass, frozen-food aisle, “poor-me”, bitter grandpa bullshit any day.

Only reason Moz hasn’t come out publicly and found a partner he ‘s proud to be seen with is because he’s never transcended Marr’s rejection. He’s surrounded himself with sycophants for the past 30 years. The only one that’s stuck by him for love is his mother. ...and she’s been an absolute failure in her ability to raise a half-decent human being, hasn’t she? He’s not a man. He’s a f***ing toddler.

The only way Steve-O manages to avoid the solitary existence he claims to love - but so obviously loathes - is by surrounding himself with cut-rate, paid musical lackey losers who he strings along from cancellation to cancellation.

Dust off your mom’s laptop screen and make a small effort to digest the obvious truth that lies in front of your half-baked, troll-ass face, pizda. ;)

:rolleyes:
Have you seen that photo of young DramaJ over with Moz, wearing a fing HAIR FLIP on his forehead.
Thats what gay dudes do to show they are looking for a boyfriend FFS CANT YOU SEE THE PHOTO on this very thread?

DramaJ has ethic, MUSICALITY WtF:crazy:? Hes yet to write a solitary melody
and he is chock full of tattoos! Fing 55 years old and getting tattoo on his head=0 ETHICS. He believes you can talk to COMETS FFS he is totally :crazy:

Hair flip gay, tattoo laden and talking to Comets, without a single decent melody or lyric is no way to go through live.doh:
 
WTF are you even trying to say its just jumbled up words !!!!
Seymour Moneystein is an embarresment he didn't respect Morrissey in the Smiths and he doesn1t now , f*** Elton f*** Mad donna he`s just some shyster who got lucky , hella he`s probably responsible for The Smiths breaking up coz HE loved Johnny Boy
The anti-semitism is strong with this one. No wonder you're posting anon.
 
:sleeping:



Anyone who has been in a band knows of the emotional rollercoaster of feelings and experience that develops into bonds, bonds that go deeper than mere sexual desire. The act of artistic creation between human beings is like a spiritual blood pact, it goes deep... surrender, vulnerability, comradeship and most importantly TRUST, all play important roles in this kind of relationship.
To an outsider who has never experienced this, it could look like love,desire, or whatever they want to project on it.


it’s not like any other love, this one is different because it’s us’



:cool:
Can vouch for this. When you're in a room full of people illuminated by creation, sweat, and passion, and it all gels together and sounds amazing and you realize that you're a part of this symbiotic whole, this audible birthing process, it can be nearly as good as sex.
 
God, who cares? It isn’t anyone’s business whom Morrissey is with, whom he likes, and his feelings, past or present, about Marr.

Morrissey’s love life is the least interesting thing about him. His misogyny, political views, and racism define him more than his sexuality.
I beg to differ. He's made sex (or lack of it) part of his package (excuse the pun) from the very start, and very cannily fanned the flames of curiosity by keeping everybody guessing. It's a bit late to start saying it's nobody's business. For what it's worth, I think his sexuality - and his tortuous relationship with it - is an intrinsic part of his appeal, and part of what makes him so magnetic. But I would agree that all scrutiny has limits defined by basic decency, and everybody has a right to a private private life.
 
I don't get all this fascination with his private life. I was lucky enough to see The Smiths and have seen Morrissey countless times over the years and I can honestly say I have never given a thought to either his sexuality or who he may have fancied over the years.

To me, Morrissey's lyrics have always been one of the most fundamental and important aspects of his career. Whatever they touched on - love, loneliness, yearning - those themes resonated and being a fan was like going on a journey through his head, all down the years. Morrissey uses his words to make diaries of his life - isn't that what created the cult of personality? I understand that you don't like speculation but I find it strange that a devoted fan could have no interest in anything beyond the music. When you hear "That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore" or "I Know It's Over", "Late Night, Maudlin Street", etc, - are they just nice tunes with words thrown in? Do you have no interest in what might have inspired them? I don't mean to sound disrespectful at all, it's just something I've never understood. Morrissey's life and his music are one and the same thing to me.
 
Only reason Moz hasn’t come out publicly and found a partner he ‘s proud to be seen with is because he’s never transcended Marr’s rejection. He’s surrounded himself with sycophants for the past 30 years. The only one that’s stuck by him for love is his mother...and she’s been an absolute failure in her ability to raise a half-decent human being, hasn’t she? He’s not a man. He’s a f***ing toddler.

The only way Steve-O manages to avoid the solitary existence he claims to love - but so obviously loathes - is by surrounding himself with cut-rate, paid musical lackey losers who he strings along from cancellation to cancellation. Dust off your mom’s laptop screen and make a small effort to digest the obvious truth that lies in front of your half-baked, troll-ass face, pizda. ;)

It only hurts because it's true.

I can't place it, but you sound very familiar...
 
Didn’t that f***wit Skinny , in his desperate search for attention , once infer that something went on between Moz and Joyce ?
He’s strangely missing from this thread. Trying to get someone on Twitter to answer his “look at me , I do crosswords tweets” #tumbleweed
 
To me, Morrissey's lyrics have always been one of the most fundamental and important aspects of his career. Whatever they touched on - love, loneliness, yearning - those themes resonated and being a fan was like going on a journey through his head, all down the years. Morrissey uses his words to make diaries of his life - isn't that what created the cult of personality? I understand that you don't like speculation but I find it strange that a devoted fan could have no interest in anything beyond the music. When you hear "That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore" or "I Know It's Over", "Late Night, Maudlin Street", etc, - are they just nice tunes with words thrown in? Do you have no interest in what might have inspired them? I don't mean to sound disrespectful at all, it's just something I've never understood. Morrissey's life and his music are one and the same thing to me.

You make a very good point Amy and each to their own. One thing I will say though, Surface does know his shit on all things Smiths/Morrissey and that is his opinion.
My question is do you really rate the stuff that he's been putting out lately and a bit previous?
In my opinion it's 4kin awful ! Am I on my own ? I don't think so.
I'm hated on here by certain people I don't know BUT it's been horrible to see it all end so grubby.
The pride I felt when Melvyn Bragg dedicated the South Bank Show to them :cool:
Truly disappointed, it should never have ended like this, but it has !
He's a 4kin nut job and that's all there is to it. A 4kin Crank.

Benny-the-British-Butcher :greatbritain::knife:
 
You make a very good point Amy and each to their own. One thing I will say though, Surface does know his shit on all things Smiths/Morrissey and that is his opinion.
My question is do you really rate the stuff that he's been putting out lately and a bit previous?
In my opinion it's 4kin awful ! Am I on my own ? I don't think so.
I'm hated on here by certain people I don't know BUT it's been horrible to see it all end so grubby.
The pride I felt when Melvyn Bragg dedicated the South Bank Show to them :cool:
Truly disappointed, it should never have ended like this, but it has !
He's a 4kin nut job and that's all there is to it. A 4kin Crank.

Benny-the-British-Butcher :greatbritain::knife:


Oy Vey yes its a total dystopia.doh:(Its like a DramaJ Drama convention in here.:drama: :drama:)
:link::turban::paperclip:
 
You make a very good point Amy and each to their own. One thing I will say though, Surface does know his shit on all things Smiths/Morrissey and that is his opinion.
My question is do you really rate the stuff that he's been putting out lately and a bit previous?
In my opinion it's 4kin awful ! Am I on my own ? I don't think so.
I'm hated on here by certain people I don't know BUT it's been horrible to see it all end so grubby.
The pride I felt when Melvyn Bragg dedicated the South Bank Show to them :cool:
Truly disappointed, it should never have ended like this, but it has !
He's a 4kin nut job and that's all there is to it. A 4kin Crank.

Benny-the-British-Butcher :greatbritain::knife:

I don't rate it, no. I've enjoyed very, very little of the past 2 albums and it is sad watching Morrissey self-destruct. But in the same way, it doesn't taint the past for me. I'm not burning my Smiths collection or solo albums. He has had a long run, we have a lot to enjoy. I suppose I'm just not invested in the idea of a great comeback like I was during Quarry. I feel like he's almost 60 and naturally the best stuff won't come now, but I'm not saddened by it.

Johnny's solo albums have the same weaknesses running through them like a thread, but how f***ing great is New Town Velocity? One or two gems per album is nice.
 
Obviously the man is a show business genius. I'm glad he admits Morrissey is a great artist because that's very obvious too. But I wonder why he is so sure about Marr's sexual orientation during those times. Genius can be evil, too.
 
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Obviously the man is a show business' genius. I'm glad he admits Morrissey is a great artist because that's very obvious too. But I wonder why he is so sure about Marr's sexual orientation during those times. Geniuses can be evil, too.

Whatever the truth of that, Johnny's marriage means he could never speak about it.

I think he is straight, but I was curious about the part of his autobiography where he recounts his gay best friend kissing him "for what seemed like a very long time" as a teenager. Before telling him, "Don't worry, it won't happen again."
 
I don't think he's ever hidden the fact that he is pansexual, but with a stronger preference for males.

It strikes me as strange that some cannot see this...
 
I don't think he's ever hidden the fact that he is pansexual, but with a stronger preference for males.

It strikes me as strange that some cannot see this...

Moz, of course. But the posts just above yours refer to Johnny?
 
Anyone for a bit of interpretive dance?

 

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