plugging the leaks

smiler

Junior Member
I think its time that this site and the moderators took some responsibility and did something to prevent future morrissey album leaks (hopefully there will be some?)

I am talking specifically about new albums here - I don't really have a problem with sharing files that have already been released.

However leaking a new album early seems to me to have a massive effect on the impact and success of an album and its chart placing

Both of Morrissey recent albums (of new material) leaked months before release

I think Morrissey and the record company also need to take note:

Look how bob dylan promoted his new album

No offical word of an up coming release at all right up until the last minute- not from the artist himself or the offical website.

No use of the internet for news updates - noone even knew he was in the studio - the internet was a terrible source of solid information - just the usual vague rumours and debate - but they didn't kill the rumour by drowning it in offical fact - they let it fester

Early special listening sessions were arranged with handpicked critics which gave them a great secret scoop - unsurpisingly all the reviews said the same thing -"There is a new album!!!! - ive heard it !!!!- its great!!!!!"

Those early reviews that just appeared in the press (without fanfare) were the first trusty worthy sources of information that a new album actually even existed - the offical site said nothing

Of course all the Dylan message boards went crazy

But tellingly the Dylan album didn't leak at all - probably because only a handful of people knew it even exited a few weeks before it was offically released.

However in the week before the release the main unoffical website banned even talking about the possibility of a leak - anyone who mentioned the word was bullied off the site.

All promotion happen via the printed media and amounted to - one long and very good relaxed indepth interview (handpicked interviewer) covering all the topics people wanted to hear about. This was then split into 4 parts and given out in sequence to four news papers round the world a week at a time.
They were immediately scanned by fans onto internet forums and disscussed endlessly -everyone excitedly waiting for the next installment next week.

The interview was only offically release to the internet via the offical site a week after publication (they were scanned on by fans onto the unoffical site about 10 minutes after publication)

In the days before the release 30 second sound clips were made available on the internet to listen to a section of each song on the new album

Again the Dylan forums went crazy

The first single from the Dylan album was the strongest track (the video by the way was a series of simple back and white still 50's photos)

The result was a number one album in uk and us - personally the album is yet to grow on me

Compare this to the recent morrissey release:

We all knew Morrissey was in the studio - When the album was complete - the titles of the songs - who wrote what - what the covers looked like - the lyrics and then finally over a month before offical release the album was everywhere - even available on several non-morrissey music forums i visit.

Clearly I should take some responsibilty as i did download the listen to the leak - I didn't however share the link or the album with anybody.

Several months before YOR was released i'd heard most of it (on previous albums or live)

Over a month before YOR was released i'd heard it all due to finding a link to a leak on Morrissey-solo - it was on the front page

I think that did have massive damage to the impact of the album - I personally was less excited by release day.

Isn't it time we all took responsibility and stopped the leaks? - Morrissey included and the record company

But shouldn't this site specifically and its moderators take some responsibily for there parts played and take steps to actively prevent leaks rather than publisize/promote them?

who is with me?
 
The site TOS works like this..

If somone posts copyrighted material it is up to the owner of said material to request it be brought down.

At that point in time, davidt can choose to bring it down.

Per the DMCA (a US law regarding copyrights) the user who posted it can request it be put back up until the request to remove the contents is done by someone who proves they actually are the copyright owner.

Most of this falls on davidt as he is the one who would get all those communications.

That is the way we moderate these things per davidt who is the site owner.

Having said that, ultimately I do not think that as a moderator the onus is on me to ensure that a Morrissey record sells as many copies as possible.

The onus there is on Morrissey and his record label to make the decisions that best satisfy their needs as a business.

The things you talked about with Dylan are things I had no idea about and it was very interesting and I'm glad it worked. It goes to show that if record companies stop doing the exact same thing as they always do, the results will change.

I am very strongly of the opinion that Years of Refusal was not leaked by any member of Moz Solo. I would guess it was someone at a radio station or something that got an advance copy of the CD and burned it.

Once that happened, Moz Solo certainly helped spread the word but it really doesn't matter. Things would have gotten around anyway.

I had copies of Your Arsenal and V&I at least a month before either record was released and there was no interest back that. That was what I was able to do with my telephone and the US Postal Service.

Back in 1997, when the internet was still slow for most people and finding a place to put 50MB in files was hard, I managed to download Maladjusted well before it was released.

If Moz Solo never mentioned the YOR leak, someone would have still emailed me the link. I in turned would have emailed my friends and they too would have passed it on. It might have taken a week to get to everyone who all got it the same day but ultimately the product would have been in the consumer's hand for free before the stores had it.

The record companies need to do their best to protect the asset of the original songs. When they do it successfully they will sell more records.
 
I think you miss the point. My point was about responsibilty.

Your "things get around anyway" and "the onus is not on me to ensure that a Morrissey record sells" arguments amount to a terrible cop out. Similarly to say "The record companies need to do their best to protect the asset". smacks to me of "if they f*** up I have no choice but to tell the world" - not true.

Firstly all i am saying is that this site is at least partly responsible - maybe not the oringinal source but partly responsible - certainly the biggest promoter (as the biggest unoffical site) of the leak.

Stop hiding behind procedure and take some responsibility - the Dylan unoffical site specifically banned any leaks from the forums - why can't morrissey-solo?

You don't appear to agree that leaks have an impact - that is up for debate but ask yourself were you as excited about release day when you already had the album? - if not how could you expect any casual listeners to be excited?

The success of an album is based on its ability to gather pace - This site has a habit of of not pulling its weight.
 
As someone who illegally downloaded the leaked album, I completely agree with you.

I would rather it hadn't been leaked at all.

But once it was there...

It's like having a packet of Jaffa Cakes in the house. If I know they're there, I have to eat them. All of them. One after the other, until I feel pleasantly queasy. But if there are no Jaffa Cakes in the house, I don't think about them at all. Even in the supermarket, I'll only buy them if I happen to pass down that particular aisle.

There's a Jaffa Cake analogy for practically everything in life.

Ask me another.
 
morrissey is like a jaffa cake:

not one thing nor the other

misunderstod

soft in the middle

but seriously

its when jaffa cakes are made instantly available and promoted on the internet that the problems start - its the distrubution issue..... - did i stretch the metaphor too far? -
 
I think its time that this site and the moderators took some responsibility and did something to prevent future morrissey album leaks (hopefully there will be some?)

I am talking specifically about new albums here - I don't really have a problem with sharing files that have already been released.

However leaking a new album early seems to me to have a massive effect on the impact and success of an album and its chart placing

Both of Morrissey recent albums (of new material) leaked months before release

I think Morrissey and the record company also need to take note:

Look how bob dylan promoted his new album

No offical word of an up coming release at all right up until the last minute- not from the artist himself or the offical website.

No use of the internet for news updates - noone even knew he was in the studio - the internet was a terrible source of solid information - just the usual vague rumours and debate - but they didn't kill the rumour by drowning it in offical fact - they let it fester

Early special listening sessions were arranged with handpicked critics which gave them a great secret scoop - unsurpisingly all the reviews said the same thing -"There is a new album!!!! - ive heard it !!!!- its great!!!!!"

Those early reviews that just appeared in the press (without fanfare) were the first trusty worthy sources of information that a new album actually even existed - the offical site said nothing

Of course all the Dylan message boards went crazy

But tellingly the Dylan album didn't leak at all - probably because only a handful of people knew it even exited a few weeks before it was offically released.

However in the week before the release the main unoffical website banned even talking about the possibility of a leak - anyone who mentioned the word was bullied off the site.

All promotion happen via the printed media and amounted to - one long and very good relaxed indepth interview (handpicked interviewer) covering all the topics people wanted to hear about. This was then split into 4 parts and given out in sequence to four news papers round the world a week at a time.
They were immediately scanned by fans onto internet forums and disscussed endlessly -everyone excitedly waiting for the next installment next week.

The interview was only offically release to the internet via the offical site a week after publication (they were scanned on by fans onto the unoffical site about 10 minutes after publication)

In the days before the release 30 second sound clips were made available on the internet to listen to a section of each song on the new album

Again the Dylan forums went crazy

The first single from the Dylan album was the strongest track (the video by the way was a series of simple back and white still 50's photos)

The result was a number one album in uk and us - personally the album is yet to grow on me

Compare this to the recent morrissey release:

We all knew Morrissey was in the studio - When the album was complete - the titles of the songs - who wrote what - what the covers looked like - the lyrics and then finally over a month before offical release the album was everywhere - even available on several non-morrissey music forums i visit.

Clearly I should take some responsibilty as i did download the listen to the leak - I didn't however share the link or the album with anybody.

Several months before YOR was released i'd heard most of it (on previous albums or live)

Over a month before YOR was released i'd heard it all due to finding a link to a leak on Morrissey-solo - it was on the front page

I think that did have massive damage to the impact of the album - I personally was less excited by release day.

Isn't it time we all took responsibility and stopped the leaks? - Morrissey included and the record company

But shouldn't this site specifically and its moderators take some responsibily for there parts played and take steps to actively prevent leaks rather than publisize/promote them?

who is with me?

I totally agree with you on the Moz part. But who is Bob Dylan:confused:
 
Get you...

I never said anyone should ban anyone but it worked on the Dylan site...

You did not say it, but you said they did it on a Dylan forum, and state how it worked.So, it sounds like you think its a good idea.

Leaks happen, if a record label really cares about not having leaks then they should not give out so many promos.
The reason YOR did not sell well could many reasons, one could argue it did not have a great single, one could argue it was not promoted enough, one could argue his comeback has peaked, could be a whole combination.
I hardly doubt, a leak being mentioned and posted on a forum killed his record sales, especially when those who frequent this forum generally buy everything he releases, anyways.
 
You did not say it, but you said they did it on a Dylan forum, and state how it worked.So, it sounds like you think its a good idea.

Leaks happen, if a record label really cares about not having leaks then they should not give out so many promos.
The reason YOR did not sell well could many reasons, one could argue it did not have a great single, one could argue it was not promoted enough, one could argue his comeback has peaked, could be a whole combination.
I hardly doubt, a leak being mentioned and posted on a forum killed his record sales, especially when those who frequent this forum generally buy everything he releases, anyways.

Not sure the Dylan site actually banned people - i think they just banned links to leaks

Talking about the possibility/location of leaks was heavily frowned upon amongst the mods - that seemed to be enough

As i said the reponsibilty is collective - solo is not the only one to blame - morrissey himself is partly reponsible for his own loose lips.

However Solo is partly responble for the leaks distribution - and as such I think they should act more responsibly.

The impact of the leak is hard to measure but it makes sense that it is damaging - if only to the momentum and subsequently cultural impact of the album.

This site by definition would not exist without morrissey - therefore that much effort/support is not alot to ask.
 
I don't think the onus should be on moderators of a message board, especially one that isn't "official". When it comes to downloading leaked material, the onus is on the consumer or downloader.

I have never downloaded leaked music. I am a geek and like to get the whole package at once. To experience the finished product in the manner the artist wants me to. To me it isn't about getting the songs ASAP. I want to be able to hold the completed project in my hands, look at the photos, read the liner notes, and hear the finished music all at the same time.

If people want to download any leaked music, that is their choice. I chose not to do so. I would never think it is David T's job to stop people from downloading leaked Morrissey music. It is up to each person that wants to hear the music as to whether they wait for the official release date or grab it online before then.
 
I don't think the onus should be on moderators of a message board, especially one that isn't "official". When it comes to downloading leaked material, the onus is on the consumer or downloader.

I have never downloaded leaked music. I am a geek and like to get the whole package at once. To experience the finished product in the manner the artist wants me to. To me it isn't about getting the songs ASAP. I want to be able to hold the completed project in my hands, look at the photos, read the liner notes, and hear the finished music all at the same time.

If people want to download any leaked music, that is their choice. I chose not to do so. I would never think it is David T's job to stop people from downloading leaked Morrissey music. It is up to each person that wants to hear the music as to whether they wait for the official release date or grab it online before then.


I am saying the onus should be on everyone -

Solo could have maintained radio silence - instead they promoted the link on the front page.
 
Your "things get around anyway" and "the onus is not on me to ensure that a Morrissey record sells" arguments amount to a terrible cop out. Similarly to say "The record companies need to do their best to protect the asset". smacks to me of "if they f*** up I have no choice but to tell the world" - not true.

That's not what I said. I didn't post the links. If I was not a moderator my actions would have been completely the same.

Stop hiding behind procedure and take some responsibility - the Dylan unoffical site specifically banned any leaks from the forums - why can't morrissey-solo?

You don't appear to agree that leaks have an impact - that is up for debate but ask yourself were you as excited about release day when you already had the album? - if not how could you expect any casual listeners to be excited?

I refuse to take responsibility that I happen to moderate on a site that was used in part to spread a leaked record. My job is to keep out spam, keep trolling outside of the pigsty and to try to maintain some semblance of peace and order. Perhaps you perceive my role as different than what it is.

The success of an album is based on its ability to gather pace - This site has a habit of of not pulling its weight.

I agree with your equation for success.

This site has done more than it's share of promote Morrissey's records and his concerts. When there was no record contract and no promotion at all and Morrissey toured in 99-00 or in 02.. it was this site that filled those venues.

Morrissey and Lost Highway are the sellers of the record. It is their job and theirs alone to say, "How could we have done a better job of making this record be more successful."

I work at a bank. Should I be mad at people who didn't pay their mortgages or credit cards that my industry is struggling and therefore I didn't get a raise or a bonus? Perhaps the banking industry should have practiced business differently to ensure profits.

Also, Quarry was leaked all over this site and that was a huge success. Quality always prevails. I personally like YOR and I bought the Deluxe Edition. Quality might not have been the same for others who opted not to purchase after hearing it.
 
To be fair. A link for YOR was never posted, it was just distributed on PM's as far as I know.
 
I think you miss the point. My point was about responsibilty.

Your "things get around anyway" and "the onus is not on me to ensure that a Morrissey record sells" arguments amount to a terrible cop out. Similarly to say "The record companies need to do their best to protect the asset". smacks to me of "if they f*** up I have no choice but to tell the world" - not true.

Firstly all i am saying is that this site is at least partly responsible - maybe not the oringinal source but partly responsible - certainly the biggest promoter (as the biggest unoffical site) of the leak.

Stop hiding behind procedure and take some responsibility - the Dylan unoffical site specifically banned any leaks from the forums - why can't morrissey-solo?

You don't appear to agree that leaks have an impact - that is up for debate but ask yourself were you as excited about release day when you already had the album? - if not how could you expect any casual listeners to be excited?

The success of an album is based on its ability to gather pace - This site has a habit of of not pulling its weight.

You can't talk about responsibility when you downloaded it yourself, can you? When you said that you downloaded it but didn't share it, you made it worse.


You are correct that it affects the impact of release day but I don't listen to CD's very often anyway. I mostly listen to "files" now.

Morrissey's latest releases, particularly the singles have been very expensive for something that you can hear for free, and I'm not a collector so I don't need the sleeves and the hard copy anyway. Someone should look at the price a new Morrissey record sells for on release and compare it to what you can buy it for a year later, and get a clue.

Ringleader of the Tormentors is available brand new on Amazon for $2.73

As usual you can blame the record companies for outdated business models. They should be ready to sell the files before the physical copies are available I think. I don't really know. They need to have a product available if they want to sell it though.
 
Everybody seems to be pointing the finger at everybody else.

On the dylan site things are done differently - those who could took steps to prevent the distribution of leaks

it is possible for morrissey-solo to remove links (real or false) and not to promote them.

I don't think its alot to ask

and i think its worth considering
 
I downloaded both ROTT and YOF from this site in advance of the official release date.
On the day of official release I went out and bought copies of both albums.

So where is the harm in posting downloads in that scenario? I'm sure what I did, 99% of other people on here did exactly the same.
So who is losing out financially? Who is damaging sales? No one. End of.
As for 'losing excitement over the date of the official release.....' get over yourself:rolleyes:

Jukebox Jury
 
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I downloaded both ROTT and YOF from this site in advance of the official release date.
On the day of official release I went out and bought copies of both albums.

So where is the harm in posting downloads in that scenario? I'm sure what I did, 99% of other people on here did exactly the same.
So who is losing out financially? Who is damaging sales? No one. End of.
As for 'losing excitement over the date of the official release.....' get over yourself:rolleyes:

Jukebox Jury

As i said before the impact of the leak is hard to measure but it makes sense that it is damaging - if only to the momentum - the gathering of pace - the subtle anticipation - the diehards will always buy the album - but they are not enough - the casual listener must be inspired.
 
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