Nick Cave on Morrissey - new issue of the Red Hand Files

Nick Cave on Morrissey - The Red Hand Files - Issue #48

Excerpt:

Open debate and conversation are the very structure of civilisation, and in Nottingham it was a privilege to be challenged by this very thoughtful young man. However, even though I was unsatisfied by my own response, I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them – even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself – that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed.

...Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on, bearing in mind we are all conflicted individuals – messy, flawed and prone to lunacies. We should thank God that there are some among us that create works of beauty beyond anything most of us can barely imagine, even as some of those same people fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I am going to have to go all "Pretty In Pink" on this one.....


"If you put out signals that you don't belong....people will make sure that you don't"
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Stating the bleeding obvious!

Absolutely nobody has said that Morrissey isn’t allowed to hold, and express his opinions. That’s a privilege that most of the planet share. Everyone else have equal rights to be critical, disagree, and object to what he has to say. People also have the right to change their opinions of others based on what they espouse.

Nick Cave is no stranger to this himself. He came in for a lot of stick when he played a gig in Israel, breaking the BDS cultural boycott. As did Morrissey. Rightly so in my opinion.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
just look where they are now:

Nick Cave - the elder statesman of indie
Morrissey - Fiona and the gang, lol
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It's because "racist" speech is just about the only kind of speech anyone has any interest in suppressing anymore. No one cares if you protest global capitalism or foreign wars. No one is trying to shut down people advocating pro-gay or trans rights. Even pedophilia apologists are allowed a voice.

So when people talk about "free speech", they really are talking about "the right to be racist" because there is a consensus that all other forms of speech are permissible.


Did you really just equate racism and paedophilia with homosexuality? Shame on you.
 

nairng

Member
Nick Cave writes well here. Read the whole lot carefully, if you've not done so already. These issues cannot and should not be boiled down to meagre soundbites such as 'he's a racist' or 'free speech is dead'. Nice one, Nick
 
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Anonymous

Guest
This nonsense about Morrissey lacking the right to “free-speech” is getting very tired. Morrissey flaps his gums incessantly, in interviews and via social-media.

Notice EVERYBODY is talking about “what Morrissey said”.

Notice NOBODY talking about “Morrissey’s music”.

Morrissey and his whiny-ass minions need to grow the f*** up.
 

Harsh Truth

Ever Felt Had?
What Nick Cave says is true. Morrissey can think whatever he likes, in my opinion, but as soon as he puts those thoughts out there in public (no matter what the issue), he has to deal with the court of public opinion.

The trouble is, Morrissey cannot deal with challenges or criticism. Rather than any real debate, he immediately lashes out and accuses the whole world of being against him, cancels tours, threatens retirement, has his usual lackeys post ridiculous statements on his behalf, and even refutes the legitimacy of his own recorded words being used against him.

The modern age - where information travels at lightening speed, where everyone has a voice, and information can easily be proven or disproven - is not compatible with Morrissey.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Stating the bleeding obvious!

Absolutely nobody has said that Morrissey isn’t allowed to hold, and express his opinions. That’s a privilege that most of the planet share. Everyone else have equal rights to be critical, disagree, and object to what he has to say. People also have the right to change their opinions of others based on what they espouse.

Nick Cave is no stranger to this himself. He came in for a lot of stick when he played a gig in Israel, breaking the BDS cultural boycott. As did Morrissey. Rightly so in my opinion.
He played two gigs in 2017in Israel and justified it by saying basically people are not their government. He did raise 150, 000 dollars for Palestinian children as well . He was not condoning what Israel has done to the Palestinians, quite the contrary in fact.
His statement about freedom of speech regarding morrissey is well put but he is certainly reaching his own conclusions about what Morrissey is saying in the last few lines. Wrongly in my opinion.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Very well put by Nick Cave, I think he really nails it. I disagree with a lot of Morrissey's views, even though I don't think what he actually says is as bad as people make out. Morrissey says X, then people take X and amplify it 10 fold and start talking about Nazis and bullshit like that. But in the end I still love the music, so I just push passed a lot of what he says because it ultimately just doesn't matter. Its just an old man's views. If you can't overlook it and do as Cave suggests and have a relationship with the music, or, you don't like the music as well as the things he says ... then ... just leave? Go focus on things you do like which enrich your life more.

I think you miss what he actually says. He doesn’t say people should go and have a relationship with the music. He says people can have not should have. He also says he respects people who speak out against those views. Personally what Morrissey says in his own words don’t need amplifying. They stand out on their own. Maybe you don’t see them being that wrong because you agree everybody prefers their own race? Or you don’t see anything wrong with asking people to vote for a party that consists of racists and have speakers at their last conference including an outspoken swedish holocaust denier? People have the choice to listen to what they want. Nobody is silencing anybody. People can speak out on all sides to challenge either sides views or oppressive views as Nick says.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
'we are all conflicted individuals – messy, flawed and prone to lunacies.'

Good line. I do love Nick Cave.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
"We should thank God"
"God Bless You"

I can stand bigotry in music, Cave's and Morrissey's. I felt really unconfortable when Morrissey said "God Bless you" at the end of his concerts around 2002.
 

The Wild Turkey

Wild T!
Turkerator
Nick is quick to recognize that the art is the most important part.
Trust me folks, the majority of ya favorite artists out there support and participate in Turkey murder.
Truth is, many of'em still make great art.
Art is part of the beneficial realm, while politics and Turkey murder are tricks of the artificial realm.
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
What Nick Cave says is true. Morrissey can think whatever he likes, in my opinion, but as soon as he puts those thoughts out there in public (no matter what the issue), he has to deal with the court of public opinion.

The trouble is, Morrissey cannot deal with challenges or criticism. Rather than any real debate, he immediately lashes out and accuses the whole world of being against him, cancels tours, threatens retirement, has his usual lackeys post ridiculous statements on his behalf, and even refutes the legitimacy of his own recorded words being used against him.

The modern age - where information travels at lightening speed, where everyone has a voice, and information can easily be proven or disproven - is not compatible with Morrissey.

The trouble is, Morrissey cannot deal with challenges or criticism.’


Don’t think Morrissey and company have an issue so much with his views being criticized by media in general (for they always have been) his concern seems to be more with the stalking and harassing of him by the Guardian, no one can call what they’ve been doing to him a ‘challenging of his views’.

And when he states he wants to be allowed freedom of speech, it’s to be allowed freedom of speech without the harassment of the Guardian, as far as can be seen.

But of course those that are anti-Morrissey will refuse to see what’s going on.
 

A scanty bit of thing

I only have eyes for youuuuuu, Aztec!
I think it's quite appropriate for Morrissey to be the way he is. There seems to be a demonisation of people who don't throw their arms around everybody. You can't make people be friends with everyone they see. He's an insular person. We're not all networking and mingling. Leave that to the globalists and people who are secure in what they do. I'm not. I'm insecure, I'm wary of people. I'm quiet and shy. I don't want to mix and it's my privilege not to do so. Shyness seems to be being conflated with racism.

It’s been a week or two. Have you managed to finally figure out yet that pistachios don’t “grow already salted” on trees?

Inquiring minds want to know!
 

The Truth

about Ruth
You are literally the most delusional, disgusting creature on the website, and that is saying a lot! Your comment not only shows how out of touch with reality you are, but also serves as an example of how ideological brainwashing can really affect an individual; in this case-you. Your life must be so sad and lonely to be so afraid of everyone and everything.
He said the other day that the burden of his thoughts on watching "the destruction of the white race" make him very sad.
Morrissey and anyone is quite entitled not to want anything to do with anyone else. It's called shyness. It's called not throwing your arms around all and sundry. I don't want to share myself too much with the people I already know, so why I'm going to wrap my arms around anyone else, I don't know. People generally do not like other people. We had an exercise at work on racism. It turned out that I was racist along with the majority of the class. I'm racist but I'm not going to cause a hooha when an asian sits next to me on the bus. I don't discriminate.
Do you want a biscuit for behaving yourself like a sane person in public? They're probably no happier having to sit next to you.
 

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