Morrissey racist?

[Anaesthesine]

Why did you return?

To the US? I had no choice - I'm an American citizen.

i have just received some compelling evidence to suggest that morrissey may in fact be THE REINCARNATION OF ADOLF HITLER: beloved jew hater and vegetarian.

I was wondering who would go there first.

 

[Black Cloud]

I never thought he was being racist when he danced around wrapped in the flag, and I think his fetish for skinheads didn't really have anything to do with politics. He just liked shaved-headed boys in boots.

Sorry to be all up in your grill on here homeslice, but this is exactly it and the point should be emphasized.

 

[sistasheila]

I spent a good part of my youth in Northern England, and I went to university there. I'm steeped in Albion.

The British and the Jews are both a laugh riot.



I'd love to hear his Hava Nagila and Dayenu (although Jessie would probably murder the latter).

All the band members could wear hot pants and matching yarmulkes.

back when i was a child we went to church(protestant) randomly and sang the song Shalom aleichem which i still remember to that day


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG6lI35ILPI

 

[Anaesthesine]

You sang Sholom Aleichem in Church? Maybe there's hope for the godly after all.

If you sound like you're coughing up a hairball, ur doin' it rite.

 

[Worm]

You seemed to have cheered up?

Were you really fuming about the jew thing?

Jew thing? What Jew thing? There's no Jew thing. I wasn't fuming at all. I was merely treating this "insider story" with the seriousness it deserved.

 

[sistasheila]

You sang Sholom Aleichem in Church? Maybe there's hope for the godly after all.

If you sound like you're coughing up a hairball, ur doin' it rite.

it was the only hebrew song we sang though but i remember enjoying it more than the usual very low sounding church songs

also : i went to an gospel concert once as a child and was blown away by the power of the songs and the joy the singers spread..well the usual church songs we sang at church doesnt sound very joyous..
i would love to visit a church service in the southern states of america or in harlem regardless of being an agnostic

 

[CrystalGeezer]

it was the only hebrew song we sang though but i remember enjoying it more than the usual very low sounding church songs

also one thing : i went to an gospel concert once as a child and was n blown away by the power of the songs anf the joy the singers spread..well the church songs we sang at church doesnt sound very joyous..
i would love to visit a church in the southertn states of america or in harlem regardless of being an agnostic

I had a similar experience at a stint I had attending a Four Square Baptist Church. It was almost ALL singing and raising the hands in the air and healing and all that and it was rather fun. I hated going but the singing was fun.

 

[Worm]

I had a similar experience at a stint I had attending a Four Square Baptist Church. It was almost ALL singing and raising the hands in the air and healing and all that and it was rather fun. I hated going but the singing was fun.

I got tickets to the Faith Dome once. I was excited about going, since I'd gotten special "Gotta Have Faith" seats. Turns out that just meant the seats were 'obstructed view'; the Holy Ghost couldn't find me in the upper deck.

 

[Anaesthesine]

it was the only hebrew song we sang though but i remember enjoying it more than the usual very low sounding church songs

also : i went to an gospel concert once as a child and was blown away by the power of the songs and the joy the singers spread..well the usual church songs we sang at church doesnt sound very joyous..

I can't say it any better than this:

i would love to visit a church service in the southern states of america or in harlem regardless of being an agnostic

I've been a raving atheist all of my life, but there are few things as emotionally rousing as a great gospel choir. Hallelujah!

 

[Worm]

I've been a raving atheist all of my life, but there are few things as emotionally rousing as a great gospel choir. Hallelujah!

Do you like jazz?

"It's boring. I like something spirited."

Something like gospel?

"'Oh Happy Day' sung by hundreds of people who are living in dire poverty in Birmingham, Alabama? No thank you."

(Details, 1992)

 

[Anaesthesine]

Do you like jazz?

"It's boring. I like something spirited."

Something like gospel?

"'Oh Happy Day' sung by hundreds of people who are living in dire poverty in Birmingham, Alabama? No thank you."

(Details, 1992)

This is why I forgive him his trespasses, though he trespass against us (on occasion).

 

[bucks boy]

im sat here reading this. is moz this is moz that to tell the truth who gives a flying f***.if he is or isnt will it stop you buying his music ,listening to his music going to see him in concerts,loving him so much that it hurts i dont think it will.why not wait for a responce from the other party.
i think every body should go and listen to speedway

 

[Qvist]

You need to do your reseach. Hilter was not a veggie. Doctors told him to eat more fruit and veg as he wasn't eating them. however Paul McCartney, Carl Lewis, Bruce Lee, Albert Einstein and Arthur Schopenhauer are some of my favourite vegetarians..........oh and me.

Wikipedia:

After the early 1930s, Hitler generally followed a vegetarian diet, although he ate meat on occasion. There are reports of him disgusting his guests by giving them graphic accounts of the slaughter of animals in an effort to make them shun meat.[338] A fear of cancer (from which his mother died) is the most widely cited reason, though many authors also assert Hitler had a profound and deep love of animals.[citation needed] Martin Bormann had a greenhouse constructed for him near the Berghof (near Berchtesgaden) to ensure a steady supply of fresh fruit and vegetables for Hitler throughout the war. Photographs of Bormann's children tending the greenhouse survive and, by 2005, its foundations were among the only ruins visible in the area that was associated with Nazi leaders.

 

[Worm]

Wikipedia:

After the early 1930s, Hitler generally followed a vegetarian diet, although he ate meat on occasion. There are reports of him disgusting his guests by giving them graphic accounts of the slaughter of animals in an effort to make them shun meat.[338] A fear of cancer (from which his mother died) is the most widely cited reason, though many authors also assert Hitler had a profound and deep love of animals.[citation needed] Martin Bormann had a greenhouse constructed for him near the Berghof (near Berchtesgaden) to ensure a steady supply of fresh fruit and vegetables for Hitler throughout the war. Photographs of Bormann's children tending the greenhouse survive and, by 2005, its foundations were among the only ruins visible in the area that was associated with Nazi leaders.

I'll see your Wiki and raise you a biography by Robert Payne:

"Hitler's asceticism played an important part in the image he projected over Germany. According to the widely believed legend, he neither smoked nor drank, nor did he eat meat or have anything to do with women. Only the first was true. He drank beer and diluted wine frequently, had a special fondness for Bavarian sausages and kept a mistress, Eva Braun, who lived with him quietly in the Berghof. There had been other discreet affairs with women. His asceticism was fiction invented by Goebbels to emphasize his total dedication, his self-control, the distance that separated him from other men. By this outward show of asceticism, he could claim that he was dedicated to the service of his people."

"In fact, he was remarkably self-indulgent and possessed none of the instincts of the ascetic. His cook, an enormously fat man named Willy Kanneneberg, produced exquisite meals and acted as court jester. Although Hitler had no fondness for meat except in the form of sausages, and never ate fish, he enjoyed caviar. He was a connoisseur of sweets, crystallized fruit and cream cakes, which he consumed in astonishing quantities. He drank tea and coffee drowned in cream and sugar. No dictator ever had a sweeter tooth."​

There's lots more here: It would seem problematic, at best, to call Hitler a vegetarian

 

[Scarlet1987]

"Jed Skullcap" is quite a funny one.

He f***ing loves it

 

[Qvist]

I'll see your Wiki and raise you a biography by Robert Payne:

"Hitler's asceticism played an important part in the image he projected over Germany. According to the widely believed legend, he neither smoked nor drank, nor did he eat meat or have anything to do with women. Only the first was true. He drank beer and diluted wine frequently, had a special fondness for Bavarian sausages and kept a mistress, Eva Braun, who lived with him quietly in the Berghof. There had been other discreet affairs with women. His asceticism was fiction invented by Goebbels to emphasize his total dedication, his self-control, the distance that separated him from other men. By this outward show of asceticism, he could claim that he was dedicated to the service of his people."

"In fact, he was remarkably self-indulgent and possessed none of the instincts of the ascetic. His cook, an enormously fat man named Willy Kanneneberg, produced exquisite meals and acted as court jester. Although Hitler had no fondness for meat except in the form of sausages, and never ate fish, he enjoyed caviar. He was a connoisseur of sweets, crystallized fruit and cream cakes, which he consumed in astonishing quantities. He drank tea and coffee drowned in cream and sugar. No dictator ever had a sweeter tooth."​

There's lots more here: It would seem problematic, at best, to call Hitler a vegetarian

Hardly much of a raise. Robert Payne was a serial biographist, who published books about virtually every semi-important 20th century leader. More than 110 titles to his credit, including biographies of Charlie Chaplin, Greta Garbo, Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Gandhi, Albert Schweitzer, Dostoyevsky, Ivan the Terrible, Chiang Kai-shek, Karl Marx, Mao Zedong, Sun Yat-sen, André Malraux, Shakespeare, Alexander the Great, The White Rajahs of Sarawak and George C. Marshall - with the level of expertise on each of them neccessarily correspondingly low. Not the best of sources. This hasn't exactly been a special interest of mine, but I have read widely on the subject of Nazi Germany, and certainly have not come away from that with anything like the picture Payne paints in the above. I'll try to have a look at what a more credible source (such as Kershaw) has to say on the issue.

Rynn Berry's article at the quoted link is in my frank opinion unimpressive to say the least, revolving as it does around the preposterous premise of whether Hitler's dietary practice really corresponded to the exacting standards of Berry's own definition of "true vegetarianism". So, he liked a bit of Leberknödel in his soup now and then. So, there was a bit of ham in his salad - perhaps we should bear in mind that this was central Europe in the 1930s. Around here, you STILL find ham included under the vegetarian section on restaurant menus here and there. Presumably on the logic that if it isn't a big chunk of beef or pig, it's not meat. So what - call him a lapsed vegetarian or whatever, it hardly changes the basic fact that he adhered to a fundamentally vegetarian dietary regime.

The general asceticism of his lifestyle I've seen reference to in so many primary sources that I see no grounds for doubting it, and certainly not on the basis of Berry's hopelessly tendentious readings and rather strained logic. He's perfectly entitled to argue that Hitler didn't meet his own definition of vegetarian, but most people would find "vegetarian" a satisfactory description of someone who consistently adheres to a vegetable diet save for the occasional strip of ham or Leberknödel. And he goes way overboard in implying that the man was probably in actuality a raving glutton, on the basis of a few weak snips. Besides the obvious fact that a (more or less) vegetarian Hitler doesn't fit comfortably into his own world-view. It all smacks of a desire to avoid facing the difficult and uncomfortable, which is never a pretty sight.

And seriously - dismissing his alleged sentimental fondness for animals on the basis of having fed Blondi Cyanide before committing suicide? On that logic he must also have been a self-loather. There is such a thing as realising the internal logic at play, even though that was a very twisted logic indeed.

Sorry mate, nothing of this is against you, but bad and tendentious history just really riles me.

cheers

 

[sistasheila]

quote from mainpage
hmm so not scott but his wife all of a sudden?

This site has a reference to the story in Mozipedia. Spencer's account differs in that he claims it was his wife that was in the room with him when he received the fax.

http://torr.typepad.com/weblog/

"The Mozipedia book tells a different version of the "Spencer fax" story. In this version of events Spencer is with his wife when the fax arrives (not a boyfriend.) I've taken the liberty to type it up, here's what the book says:

Morrissey was angered enough by Cobrin's financial grievances against him to send the drummer an abusive fax message. "The fax came through and my wife, at the time, picked it up first,' says Cobrin. "She said "I don't think you should read this." When i read it, i stayed in bed for a week. I couldn't move. There's no point repeating what it said because it's all water under the bridge now, but at the time it wasn't trivial. That was it, he'd crossed the line. It was the cruelest thing you could say to anyone after working together for so long. It still upsets me, but i realise that I'm one in a long line of people who've been treated like that. If there's anything that gets Morrissey upset more than anything else, it's money." A second fax followed. "A much longer one," claims Cobrin, "but there was no apology. It was just more blame, more pointing fingers and being very childish. That was the end of it. I was persona non grata after that."
Anonymous -- Sunday June 13 2010, @07:12PM (#353028)

. I never thought he was being racist when he danced around wrapped in the flag, and I think his fetish for skinheads didn't really have anything to do with politics.

agree

 

[MindlessRuffian]

We call one of my friends "Jew boy". There are too many Erics.

 

[Stephane]

I think Torr may have gotten the fax stories wrong. In the Scott Matthew story, I believe Spencer was being faxed about the use of "Lost", which he co-wrote, on the Best Of compilation.

Stephane

 

[murder and desire]

You sang Sholom Aleichem in Church? Maybe there's hope for the godly after all.

If you sound like you're coughing up a hairball, ur doin' it rite.

BLIMEY!

That song pops into my head once a month at least-We did it as well.

I was only 7, I used to find it amusing when they would try and make different people sing different parts at once. It would all go wrong and I would sit there on the cold park A flooring with a numb bum, with my head down, giggling away.

Life has it's moments



Ps an Asian female friend of mine always says to me, "your the only one who mentions my being Asian and makes jokey comments about it, I like that. White people are very funny about race they are too scared to say anything. Yes we are all human but we do come from different cultures. Its Ok to take the piss, we do about white people"

I think she has a point. Then again she did spend £700 on a hand bag the other day.