Morrissey not vegan?

That is why we have a problem with the preacher, Morrissey, not practicing what he is preaching to his apostles--and other audience members who just want to hear their favorite singer sing but not be searched, prior to entering a venue, for meat contraband.

You seemed to have missed the point of my entire metaphor.

As far as Morrissey goes, he does practice what he preaches. He tells people not to eat meat. He does not eat meat. Just like Peter Singer. Just like Paul McCartney. He apparently eats vegetarian cheese (meaning it was not made with animal rennet--a level of consciousness beyond most ethical vegetarians and something that has been completely ignored). Whether or not one can only be a true animal rights activist if they are a vegan is a debate. However, if you're not a vegan you don't really have much to contribute and you appear less like someone concerned with the welfare of animals or hypocrisy and more like a very defensive omnivore or someone with a personal vendetta.


I think you just described Morrissey.

I was not referring to Morrissey, I was mentioning my personal experience with very abusive and bullying meat eaters.

Must have an illness because they enjoy pointing out hypocrisy? ?

Did you read my post? I never mentioned people who enjoy pointing out hypocrisy. I was very explicit about a very specific subset of the general population I have encountered. Not sure why you keep shifting the focus away from who I was referring to.

Is everyone who sands against the grain in need of psychotropic drugs? Of course not.

I have zero idea what you are referring to here. Who is going against the grain? And when did I mention them?


It is just a hypothesis--like any other put forth on these forums.

Hypothesis is one word you could use. Gossip, armchair psychology, rumor mongering, baseless speculation are all equally adequate synonyms in this scenario. But I suppose those words all lack the connotations of scientific rigor.

I do know that the vegetarians I have met who hate the taste and texture of meat--never liked it and don't crave it--have about as little of a problem resisting consuming it as do the rest of us who are able to abstain from walking over hot coals. It isn't even a matter of willpower.

Ok, I don't doubt that. People chose a vegetarian diet for a diverse number of reasons.

I think he is one of those types.

That is an interesting opinion.

I never said he was mentally ill. I suggested his eating is disordered.

Eating disorders are widely considered to be a form of mental illness, though the DSM-V will be the first DSM to feature a specific diagnosis of eating disorders as a mental illness. Obviously, we can debate what is and is not a mental illness--as it is arguably a socially constructed category--and our perceptions of what is or is not a mental illness change over time--but when most people read "eating disorder" they are going to think mental illness.

And clearly it is.

This is not clear to me.

Does he care about animals? I believe he does. Does he suffer from cognitive dissonance because he is able to consume butter and cheese which were produced in that same system of suffering he claims to be appalled by? Of course--he must. Who wouldn't

Obviously, some vegans feel this way--though as established throughout this thread ad nauseam not everyone in the animal rights community or the general population at large shares this view. As for my personal feelings on this apparently controversial subject, I have clearly stated that I can understand and respect why someone who is a vegan and an animal rights activist may feel this way. As far as, someone who is not a vegan or an animal rights activists I don't care what their views are on this subject. As far as my own person views, animal rights activism or concern with animal welfare is a spectrum of beliefs ranging from groups like the Humane Society which take no position against meat eating to the more militantly vegetarian (but not vegan) like Paul McCartney, Peter Singer, and Morrissey to those who are vegan.
 
Is there anybody here on board who does NOT believe that factory farming should be abolished?


There must be as so many meat eaters don't eat free range. I was never one of those people that didn't like meat, I just gave it up as I couldn't buy anything free range where I lived and once I'd broken the cycle I never went back to it.

On the cheese front, I've always wondered how this levels with Hindus where the cow is sacred animal. How ethical would Paneer be?
 
You seemed to have missed the point of my entire metaphor.

As far as Morrissey goes, he does practice what he preaches. He tells people not to eat meat. He does not eat meat. Just like Peter Singer.

Peter Singer is not subjecting an audience to torture porn in order to make them feel ashamed of their dietary choices fifteen minutes after popping a handful of Cheez-Its down his gullet.

d3d4372484832ef9df36a9107e945c45.jpg


Paul McCartney. He apparently eats vegetarian cheese.

Does he subject his audience to emotionally manipulative propaganda with the attempt change hearts and minds?

(meaning it was not made with animal rennet--a level of consciousness beyond most ethical vegetarians and something that has been completely ignored).

It has not been ignored. We know that. He refrains from cheese that uses dead animal byproducts but not the products of lactating, confined, habitually impregnated dairy cows whose offspring are killed after birth--or shorty after--after being tortured for months in veal stalls.


Whether or not one can only be a true animal rights activist if they are a vegan is a debate. However, if you're not a vegan you don't really have much to contribute and you appear less like someone concerned with the welfare of animals or hypocrisy and more like a very defensive omnivore or someone with a personal vendetta.

Anyone with a voice can and should contribute to the discussion. Including you.

I was not referring to Morrissey, I was mentioning my personal experience with very abusive and bullying meat eaters.

Do (did) they try to make you feel guilty for not eating meat?

Did you read my post? I never mentioned people who enjoy pointing out hypocrisy. I was very explicit about a very specific subset of the general population I have encountered. Not sure why you keep shifting the focus away from who I was referring to.

Why can't a meat eating fan point out Moz's dietary hypocrisy?

Hypothesis is one word you could use. Gossip, armchair psychology, rumor mongering, baseless speculation are all equally adequate synonyms in this scenario. But I suppose those words all lack the connotations of scientific rigor.

Each hypothesis begins with a hunch. It is an educated guess. Theory is the word you are looking for. If I said I have a theory that Moz has an eating disorder. Well I better have some strong evidence to support that theory. Or it is not a theory, is it? It is just a hypothesis at this point. See the difference?

Eating disorders are widely considered to be a form of mental illness, though the DSM-V will be the first DSM to feature a specific diagnosis of eating disorders as a mental illness. Obviously, we can debate what is and is not a mental illness--as it is arguably a socially constructed category--and our perceptions of what is or is not a mental illness change over time--but when most people read "eating disorder" they are going to think mental illness.

Homosexuality was regarded as a mental illness until the late 70s--as you know. I can't help if people read the term 'eating disorder' and do not understand its definition e.g. disordered eating. Pica is an eating disorder. But no one would call it a mental illness.
 
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"Why can't a meat eating fan point out Moz's dietary hypocrisy? "

To dial a couple of chiches...

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones
Let he without sin cast the first stone

You'd better have your own house bang in order if you're going to attack other people all the time if you don't want to come across as a complete tit.

If you pick your way through any person on Earth's belief system you'll find hypocrisy and inconsistencies. You, me, Morrissey, whoever. It's just a matter of why you'd want to do it, why you'd want to do it all the time and what you get out of it.

My own theory is people have too much time on their hands these days and not enough problems of their own. The West has become a race of busy bodies, loads of people bitching about others while doing f*** all of worth themselves. This should be in the First World Problems thread.
 
Peter Singer is not subjecting an audience to torture porn in order to make them feel ashamed of their dietary choices fifteen minutes after popping a handful of Cheez-Its down his gullet.

d3d4372484832ef9df36a9107e945c45.jpg




Does he subject his audience to emotionally manipulative propaganda with the attempt change hearts and minds?



It has not been ignored. We know that. He refrains from cheese that uses dead animal byproducts but not the products of lactating, confined, habitually impregnated dairy cows whose offspring are killed after birth--or shorty after--after being tortured for months in veal stalls.




Anyone with a voice can and should contribute to the discussion. Including you.



Do (did) they try to make you feel guilty for not eating meat?



Why can't a meat eating fan point out Moz's dietary hypocrisy?



Each hypothesis begins with a hunch. It is an educated guess. Theory is the word you are looking for. If I said I have a theory that Moz has an eating disorder. Well I better have some strong evidence to support that theory. Or it is not a theory, is it? It is just a hypothesis at this point. See the difference?



Homosexuality was regarded as a mental illness until the late 70s--as you know. I can't help if people read the term 'eating disorder' and do not understand its definition e.g. disordered eating. Pica is an eating disorder. But no one would call it a mental illness.

I think he may have a phobia about blood which means he can't eat animal products with obvious blood residue but is fine with those that are blood-free, like cheese.

best
BB
 
I think he may have a phobia about blood which means he can't eat animal products with obvious blood residue but is fine with those that are blood-free, like cheese.

best
BB

Makes sense to me. I am far more put-off with the idea of consuming pus than blood. I guess he has no problem with pus.
 
The problem with our society today is that people see pictures of factory farming but refuse to take up a stance. They prefer to say nothing at all.
But here in this case it's only a clear yes or a no: yes, I accept it or no, I abhor it.

So, why be quiet about the pictures that are known to all of us?

I assume that those who do NOT clearly take up a stance with regard to factory farming secretly approve of it. I assume that the same people DON'T give a f*cking (excuse me) shit about the animals that have to face the most brutal nightmares you could never imagine or dream of, and that you wouldn’t wish to happen to your worst enemy.

So, how come that those people who CANNOT SPEAK UP CLEARLY against or in favor of factory farming, who, I assume, must hate animals and want to see them suffer as agonizingly as possible, or, even worse, who don't give a shit and who in their acceptance are only expressing the most utter disinterest in the fate of these creatures,

suddenly think they can accuse someone of hyprocrisy and contempt for animals who was brave enough to take up a stance against this brutal killing and money making machinery? Something THEY would have never ever been able to do themselves.

And it’s the same implicitly accepting people who then argue that the mentioning of some obscure cheese on his tour rider is a sign of him not really being interested in the animal liberation issue, of him secretly supporting this system of brutality and exploitation.

I say it’s YOU, those who chickenshit hide within their comfortzone of convenience and cowardice, who are to be criticized, put in the public pillory, quartered, and then wipped and flogged for your feigning ignorance and for your lapsing into silence while those who are screaming straight into the cameras are abused in front of your eyes.

Whatever Morrissey's imagined intentions, he is clearly delusional and hypocritical in eating cheese, thereby condoning and supporting the Gendercide Of Male Calves.

I hope you feel better after that emotional ventilation. It doesn't change a thing. Morrissey is a hypocrite. Deal with it.

best
BB

ps: You *might* want to tone done the torture/flogging/whipping stuff. As, indeed, Morrissey could usefully do. He's just as guilty as anyone in his audience who eats at a burger stand after the gig. The difference is, he imagines he's on a higher moral plane.
 
Whatever Morrissey's imagined intentions, he is clearly delusional and hypocritical in eating cheese, thereby condoning and supporting the Gendercide Of Male Calves.

I hope you feel better after that emotional ventilation. It doesn't change a thing. Morrissey is a hypocrite. Deal with it.

best
BB

ps: You *might* want to tone done the torture/flogging/whipping stuff. As, indeed, Morrissey could usefully do. He's just as guilty as anyone in his audience who eats at a burger stand after the gig. The difference is, he imagines he's on a higher moral plane.



You should tell us about yourself Brummie. What makes you tick? What are your inconsistencies? What are your human traits that don't make you perfect?

Maybe you are perfect with a perfect life and you've never done anything wrong. Maybe that's what gives you all of this time to throw stones at someone else?
 
You should tell us about yourself Brummie. What makes you tick? What are your inconsistencies? What are your human traits that don't make you perfect?

Maybe you are perfect with a perfect life and you've never done anything wrong. Maybe that's what gives you all of this time to throw stones at someone else?

I do not tick as I am not a clock. Yes, I am a perfected, enlightened Being. That's why I am communicating with Humanity via this website. As for stones: Morrissey is in a glass house of his own making, so should be careful of throwing rocks at himself.

best
BB
 
I do not tick as I am not a clock. Yes, I am a perfected, enlightened Being. That's why I am communicating with Humanity via this website. As for stones: Morrissey is in a glass house of his own making, so should be careful of throwing rocks at himself.

best
BB

You're perfectly perfect? You should tell us all about it. At least four posts in a row without reply as often as possible saying the same thing. That'd really confirm how perfectly perfect you are.
 
What's with RB's pervasive fear of Cheez-its? She always brings them up, it's bizarre.
 
And in the midst, there remains, a few?
A few who don't actually give a fiddler's f*** about what claptrap Morrissey comes out with, because, as Charlie C has said, pointedly, ever f***er on this planet is full of hypocrisy in any case. A few who have always liked the music, the lyrics, the quiff, the style and the voice. A few who can happily eat a bacon sandwich whilst listening to Morrissey, because they can separate the man and the belief system.

Does the vitriol stem from the fact that he has a loftier platform, from which to gush forth his nonsense, in comparison with others here?

If not that, then I really don't understand why anybody gives a shit?

No? Just me? I'll get me coat :)
 
Le sigh.

Peter Singer is not subjecting an audience to torture porn in order to make them feel ashamed of their dietary choices fifteen minutes after popping a handful of Cheez-Its down his gullet.

d3d4372484832ef9df36a9107e945c45.jpg

I take it you've never read Animal Liberation.

Does he subject his audience to emotionally manipulative propaganda with the attempt change hearts and minds?

He did narrate the PETA film "IF Slaughthouses Had Glass Walls," which is similar (though slightly older) than the PETA film, "Meet Your Meat," used the three times I saw Morrissey. Also, none of the three times I saw Morrissey was I subjected to anything. Were you subjected to something when you saw Morrissey?

It has not been ignored. We know that. He refrains from cheese that uses dead animal byproducts but not the products of lactating, confined, habitually impregnated dairy cows whose offspring are killed after birth--or shorty after--after being tortured for months in veal stalls.

This is the first time anyone has mentioned animal rennet in reference to his tour rider on this forum to my knowledge.

Anyone with a voice can and should contribute to the discussion. Including you.

Not relevant to anything I said. I used my voice to articulate that I did not care what certain people had to say on a topic, as I find those people's views not to be relevant and motivations suspect.

Do (did) they try to make you feel guilty for not eating meat?

I suppose a few of them did. I don't really know what their motivations were. And this not an isolated phenomena--I've spoken to various people who are or were vegetarians and they had similar experiences. If you had read the comments on the article you posted you would note that several people recounted similar experiences. Yet, for all of the bashing of animal rights activists as being preachy or annoying or whatnot this never enters the discussion. I find this omission odd.

Why can't a meat eating fan point out Moz's dietary hypocrisy?

Anyone can say anything they want. I did not stop them. I merely stated that I don't consider their views to be particularly relevant and I find their motivations suspect.

Each hypothesis begins with a hunch. It is an educated guess. Theory is the word you are looking for. If I said I have a theory that Moz has an eating disorder. Well I better have some strong evidence to support that theory. Or it is not a theory, is it? It is just a hypothesis at this point. See the difference?

Theory was not the word I was looking for. The words I listed were the words I was looking for.
Homosexuality was regarded as a mental illness until the late 70s--as you know.

I am aware and predicted you would respond with this--hence why I stipulated that the idea of what is or is not a mental illness is, at least partially, socially constructed and somethings that were once considered mental illness no longer are. I was specifically thinking of homosexuality past inclusion in the DSM when I wrote that.

I can't help if people read the term 'eating disorder' and do not understand its definition e.g. disordered eating. Pica is an eating disorder. But no one would call it a mental illness.

The common understanding of eating disorders is that they are a form of mental illness. Most medical sources list it as such. When I said it was not currently listed as one in the DSM, but well be in the DSM-V I was incorrect. DSM-IV does include anorexia, bulimia, pica, and eating disorder not otherwise specified. DSM-V will include binge eating disorder as a separate diagnosis from eating disorder not otherwise specified.

You may have a different perspective on eating disorders. It may in fact be correct, but it is not the currently widely accepted view in the mental health or medical community. Thus someone who sees the term and thinks mental illness is not someone who does know the definition, but somebody who took 8th grade health, googled eating disorder, or looked up its definition in the Oxford New American English Dictionary, which defines eating disorder as--

eating disorder |idɪŋ dɪˈsɔrdər|
noun
any of a range of psychological disorders characterized by abnormal or disturbed eating habits (such as anorexia nervosa).

Perhaps the common medical wisdom is wrong. People used to think bloodletting was a valid medical practice or homosexaulity was a mental disorder. No more. However, in the scenario above the failure to communicate properly is solely caused by your unique (though possibly true) views of what an eating disorder is not the other person's ignorance.

As far as pica is concerned, pica is currently listed in the DSM-IV as a mental illness and is treated with SSRIs. This has been criticized by some, which may be your view as well. Nonetheless when you said Morrissey had an eating disorder it is perfectly rational to expect many, if not most people, who are familiar with the concept of an eating disorder would believe you were saying he had a mental illness.
 
On the cheese front, I've always wondered how this levels with Hindus where the cow is sacred animal. How ethical would Paneer be?

Paneer does not use animal rennet hence how Hindus are able to believe cows are sacred and consume it. Though I suppose their motivations could also be suspect and they may just have cow flesh phobia and are covering it up.
 
Paneer does not use animal rennet hence how Hindus are able to believe cows are sacred and consume it. Though I suppose their motivations could also be suspect and they may just have cow flesh phobia and are covering it up.

Yes, much like Islam and Judaism's swine phobia. And my fear of eating insects.
 
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