Morrissey and shyness - "Shrinking Violets" - a BBC4 Extra documentary

Just driven up from down South and on the way listened to this fascinating documentary on shyness. Talks about a lot of interesting historical figures, but also some more modern ones, and their struggle with shyness, including L.S Lowry, George Best, Bobby Charlton and Morrissey. Really good listen. Moz section begins at 49m 38s.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07s3jlp


UPDATE 3:15 PM PT:

Related link posted by Bluebirds:

Shrinking Violets by Joe Moran review – how to understand shyness - The Guardian
Is being shy a boon or a burden? Should it be fought against? This sparkling cultural history ranges from Jane Austen to Silicon Valley
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I am shy myself. For years I would not pick up or dial the phone. After the caller ID came into the service I would be selectively answering the phone. I still don't have mobile phone and probably never will. I got better over the years with the social anxiety, but there are still many things I won't do like public speaking. Well, maybe if I am totally blasted. It just my personality and I don't think any pill can change that. Too bad this world is not meant to be for the shy, the introverts. Ce la vie.
 
I like people who are shy.
Well maybe not all off them. They tend to be very friendly and without any hostilities. Only shy. A kind of soft heartiness that is warming.

I had some shyness issues myself. But got over it.
Now, I actually don't care anymore what people think of me.

I don't know if it is of any comfort to you, and I must state I am not a religious person but I once read in the Bible Jesus has supposedly said: The shy and softhearted people shall inherit the Earth. And: the first will be the last and the last will be the first.

It did comfort me at least for sometime and I got some out of it.
 
I am shy myself. For years I would not pick up or dial the phone. After the caller ID came into the service I would be selectively answering the phone. I still don't have mobile phone and probably never will. I got better over the years with the social anxiety, but there are still many things I won't do like public speaking. Well, maybe if I am totally blasted. It just my personality and I don't think any pill can change that. Too bad this world is not meant to be for the shy, the introverts. Ce la vie.

I'm extremely shy in person - especially face to face. I feel more comfortable in front of a room full of people or on a stage in the theatre. I don't quite understand how that works. But, I won't answer the door, ever, and if I go out, I prefer a group setting. Unless it's someone I know well or feel at ease with. It takes a long time for me to get that way, though, and to feel as though I can fully trust someone. It's not easy. And relationships suffer because others lose patience and ultimately any interest they had in the first place.
 
Last edited:
age is a great leveller,shyness certainly dies down as you get older though some people never really get over it.strange how singers and actors can be shy yet their job is the total opposite,someone like bryan ferry who exudes style and elegance and yet can hardly maintain a conversation with an interviewer.
 
I'm extremely shy in person - especially face to face. I feel more comfortable in front of a room full of people or on a stage in the theatre. I don't quite understand how that works. But, I won't answer the door, ever, and if I go out, I prefer a group setting. Unless it's someone I know well or feel at ease with. It's takes a long time for me to get that way, though, and to feel as though I can fully trust someone. It's not easy. And relationships suffer because others lose patience and ultimately any interest they had in the first place.

Hi hand in glove, for me it is the reverse, so strange but good to find out about.
I don't have a problem regarding shyness with one on one contacts, even with people I've never seen before. But when I have to be in a group of people I am shy and need time to get used to them.

On stage, singing or saying something in public scares me enormously. I start shaking, sweating, and I get very nervous. I can only cope by preparing and sticking myself to things I rehearsed very thoroughly beforehand. Not really spontaneous than as opposed to one on one contacts where I generally feel at ease and relaxed and I am interested in the other person.
Strange how these things can differ when it comes to shyness.
 
i would like to one day write a treatise on shyness and the different forms that it takes, because i dont believe that shyness is the same in everyone--although those who dont understand shyness like to think that it is, just as they like to think they understand what it means to be shy--or even that shyness is an adequate term. i think shyness is a rather meaningless term, a cover term for any variety of traits.
what ive always been interested in is whether or not shyness is a personality type--whether a person is just shy by nature. i, myself, was a very shy child (but not always. give me a platform on which to express my opinion, put me in a room with an adult i didnt like, and i would tell you whats what) and i couldnt answer then whether it was just my personality or whether it was something that was affecting my personality. i do have traits that seem to go hand in hand with a shy personality: for example, i am by nature a gentle person. i dont mean gentle in a psychological sense--because let's face it, im kind of a jerk--but in a physical sense. i shut doors and cupboards very quietly (unless im angry in which case everything gets slammed). i am also, or used to be to a much greater degree, very sensitive to sensory data. noises, smells--even something as innocuous as the smell of toast-- would often leave me with a feeling like being drowned. this is not unlike how i felt in certain social situations as well (not all, as i was very sensitive to the dynamics of a situation and some social situations i would feel very much at ease in): like i was being drowned, or suffocated. to me, personalities of others seem to have a very physical space--i dont know if you would call that some weird kind of synesthesia or what, but, for me, they definitely have space, they take on shapes. and oftentimes i would feel like they took on too much space or that i couldnt wedge the shape of my personality into the space their personalities were taking up. in situations like this i had a constant sense of being jostled, like there was never enough time or space in which to say what i wanted to say--and when i would say something it usually wasnt what i really meant, but something made to fit what i felt to be the constraints of the situation, and the end result of that was that i ended up feeling very cheap, and would thus be more wary next time of saying anything (other people might be able to brush something like that off, but when something annoys me--even if it's something as harmless as a spot of pasta sauce someone didnt clean off of a kitchen floor--the annoyances nestles itself into my brain and stays with me all day). i found that it was far easier, and less unpleasant, to remove myself from the situation--my grandma always accuses me of not being present in the moment, as it is--and just be an entity that observes. but when you do that, you set up a threshold between being an entity that observes, and being someone present in the moment, and so talking becomes an even more daunting, incomprehensible task. i may not be timid of people, but i am timid of crossing thresholds.
but there's another thing too: i never felt like i had a personality as a child. other people just know what to say in certain situations, and because i didnt, i thought i didnt have a personality (realizing that this was a problem i set out to construct one, in the most unnatural way possible. i kept notebooks of things characters from books that i liked said, to give me something to say. this only worked of course when i found myself in the situations mirroring the situations in those books. more often than not, i was finding myself in completely different situations and thus always without anything to say). i think the problem, if you could call it that, was one of discernment, rather than lack of personality. children, by nature, seem to mimic and absorb the personalities of their friends and those around them. this is not something i ever did: i would've been too conscious of doing it, and would've, again, felt cheap (any false representation of myself leaves me feeling cheap, you see. my sister, who is the opposite of me, has no qualms about taking on the personalities of those around her. and i notice in social situations how her voice and personality changes and all i want to do is gape at her in disgust and ask how she can not feel like a whore). also, i knew full well that no one around me was worth mimicking. sometimes i notice now, however, that when i watch a movie, afterwards i will adopt some of the traits of a character in it: a mannerism, or a way of saying something. this is a kind of mimicry of which i approve, and i think this habit of mine has gone a long way to combating my "shyness" (which is very minimal now): absorbing the personality of someone else seems to bolster my sense of being "present in the moment." and maybe that was what was lacking in the first place, which produced my "shyness": my refusal to want to fit in with the people around me by taking on their personalities. if so, that is something that i am proud of.
so there's that to explain my "shyness". i dont think ultimately shyness is who i am, but rather the result of a certain number of personality traits i have; traits which may not necessarily produce shyness, but which did in me at the time, or rather produced in me the semblance of shyness (and not being able to understand this at the time, i existed in a blank space, full of convoluted abstractions, and it was a bit like living in a surreal film). but people who encountered me just saw "shy", which always greatly offended me, because in a lot of peoples minds, shyness means being scared of people or intimidated, and i have never been that.
 
I am shy myself. For years I would not pick up or dial the phone. After the caller ID came into the service I would be selectively answering the phone. I still don't have mobile phone and probably never will. I got better over the years with the social anxiety, but there are still many things I won't do like public speaking. Well, maybe if I am totally blasted. It just my personality and I don't think any pill can change that. Too bad this world is not meant to be for the shy, the introverts. Ce la vie.

Some massively successful people are self-confessed introverts and shy. Bill Gates, Steven Spielberg, Tim Gunn come to mind. From my own experience recruiting people I can say that we often go for the quiet, competent ones and not necessarily the ME! ME! Look at ME! types.
 
Something that has helped me ENORMOUSLY in understanding my shyness is the Enneagram personality typing system. Finding out that I'm a type Four, and that type Fours are one of the Withdrawn types gave me such a window of understanding what was going on with me. It's just like Rifke describes above, Withdrawn types do not occupy and dominate the space around them, they barely occupy the full space of their own being. Rather they live in a smaller space inside themselves that they withdraw into, a safe space where they can process their thoughts, feelings or sensory impressions. Morrissey is also a Withdrawn type, a type Four, and such a massively fantastic role model in that he has found a way to honor his shy tendencies, but also has found a way to be out there in public, sharing his music and message with all of us.
 
Morrissey's shyness (as demonstrated in the Tonight Show gif) was always laced with aesthetic judgment and tactical rejection. Which is why I loved it.
 
I like people who are shy.
Well maybe not all off them. They tend to be very friendly and without any hostilities. Only shy. A kind of soft heartiness that is warming.

I had some shyness issues myself. But got over it.
Now, I actually don't care anymore what people think of me.

I don't know if it is of any comfort to you, and I must state I am not a religious person but I once read in the Bible Jesus has supposedly said: The shy and softhearted people shall inherit the Earth. And: the first will be the last and the last will be the first.

It did comfort me at least for sometime and I got some out of it.
This is a great post thank you. I'm shy also so I can relate. It is sad Michael Jackson and Princess Diana don't feature in this documentary I thought of them as shy people. Princess Diana was even known as "Shy Di". Both were great, kind, caring, loving people and are sadly missed.

Jesus said:"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." Matthew 5:5 is the fifth verse of the fifth chapter of the Gospel of Matthew in the New Testament. It is the third verse of the Sermon on the Mount, and also third of what are known as the Beatitudes.

Jesus said: "So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many are called, but few chosen."
 
Last edited:
Michael Jackson was a great, kind, caring, loving person? He was a pervert and it's a fact he's touched children inappropriately. I hope the kiddie diddler burns in hell.
 
Last edited:
Michael Jackson was a great, kind, caring, loving person? I hope the kiddie fiddler burns in hell.
This is off topic but Michael Jackson wasn't a paedophile he was never convicted of anything. Michael Jackson was one of the sweetest people ever and he was really shy!

Don't believe the rubbish and lies that are printed in the tabloid media about Michael Jackson they are just nasty people trying to make money by destroying MJ's good name.

I've read a lot about Michael Jackson. He was very misunderstood. MJ also did a huge amount of charity work.

You might find this interesting Steven Spielberg who you mentioned as being shy was actually friends with Michael Jackson at one time!

Do you believe in hell? I thought you weren't a Christian or a Muslim. I think only Christians (like myself) and Muslims believe in hell.

I'm a Christian I don't wish for anyone to go to hell when they die not even my worst enemy! I pray for everyone to be saved.

I'm pleased Uncleskinny took the time to post about this BBC4 Extra documentary as it is really interesting. I'm shy myself so I can relate.
 
Last edited:
Oh I wonder why he was never convicted. Couldn't have anything to do with the $200m of hush money he paid out, could it?

I know you are butthurt because of the religion thingie. It was really arsey of you to downvote my thoughts on religion - nobody is keeping you from believing in your invisible friend in the sky, but I'm afraid you will have to accept that some people dislike religion.
 
Last edited:
This is off topic but Michael Jackson wasn't a paedophile he was never convicted of anything. Michael Jackson was one of the sweetest people ever and he was really shy!

Don't believe the rubbish and lies that are printed in the tabloids about Michael Jackson they are just nasty people trying to make money by destroying MJ's good name.

I've been a big fan of Michael Jackson since 1993 and I've read a lot about him. He was very misunderstood. MJ also did a huge amount of charity work.

You might find this interesting Steven Spielberg who you mentioned as being shy was actually friends with Michael Jackson at one time!

By the way do you believe in hell? I thought you weren't a Christian or a Muslim. I think only Christians and Muslims believe in hell.

I'm pleased Uncleskinny took the time to post about this BBC4 Extra documentary as it is really interesting. I'm shy myself so I can relate.
He admitted to Martin Bashir that he had children in his bed eating cookies and milk. What was 45 year old man doing with children that are not his own in his bed? Give me a break.
OJ Simpson was not convicted of slaughtering his ex wife and lover either. Do you believe that too?
 
Oh I wonder why he was never convicted. Couldn't have anything to do with the $200m of hush money he paid out, could it?

I know you are butthurt because of the religion thingie. It was really arsey of you to downvote my thoughts on religion - nobody is keeping you from believing in your invisible friend in the sky, but I'm afraid you will have to accept that some people dislike religion.
Religion was Jesus' greatest obstacle during His ministry while here on earth. Jesus debated constantly with the religious leaders of His day, the so called righteous and he saw their hypocrisy. The Scribes and Pharisees couldn't stand Jesus. A lot of so called Christians today are following “Christendom”, "Churchianity" = pagan/idol worship (e.g. Roman Catholicism etc) and NOT true Christianity. They are social Christians and not true believers. Jesus was culturally and racially Jewish but of NO religion as He was all truth in the flesh. Jesus was God in flesh form. Jesus had no need for the man-made construct of religion.

Jesus clearly shows us how religion kills the spirituality of true faith, which creates the true relationship with Father God. As with ALL religions, they do not equate with a race as such, yet are learned cultures. All nationalism, traditions, customs, superstitions and religions are merely indoctrination taught from birth and then passed to each proceeding generation. The festivals, anniversaries and celebrations we have today often date back to the Roman Empire which was pagan. Religion is a group of people following man’s constructed rules of that group! There is not one ‘organised religion’ that teaches what the original four New Testament gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John really mean. The gospel means the "good news" and the good news is Jesus' blood was shed in his death to save me of my sin. Jesus died, rose again and is now in Heaven with Father God. Jesus will one day return to earth to judge us. A true servant of God above, follows God's guided rules for order with truth. True believers do not follow religious groups or leaders, cult rituals or dogma, so as to not support the wall of separation built from religion. Anything of Almighty God is never divisive based, nor creates an "us and them" mentality.

The true meaning of Biblical “Jews” = Humanities attempt for self-governance in defiance of God’s will. Being contrary to God’s laws of faith, hope, truth, trust, love, charity, mercy and grace and what is more to deny what Christ accomplished for us by His death. Thanks to Jesus Christ we are now living under the new law.

The biblical meaning of charity means participating in tangible acts of loving-kindness toward all others (friend or enemy) in unconditional and self-sacrificial ways. My creator Father God is a merciful God and I ask for God's grace not his judgement.

Michael Jackson often spoke of Jesus and God and he read The Bible. Michael Jackson used to pray. There is no empirical evidence that Michael Jackson was a pedophile. I do not see any evidence then or now that proves Michael Jackson was ever a pedophile. Michael Jackson went through a lengthy trial in 2005 and he was acquitted on all counts! That trial almost destroyed him. Fame is an unnatural thing. Human beings are not meant to be worshiped the way Michael Jackson was. They built Michael Jackson up to almost godlike status, they then proceeded to tear him down in a very vicious and cruel way!

I know this is off the topic of 'shyness' but I wanted to get my thoughts about organised religion across. I dislike organised religion, dogma and hypocrisy just as much as you do! I'm just coming at it from a different perspective. I find it interesting that you believe in hell yet you don't appear to be a Christian or a Muslim. I don't wish for anyone to go to hell when they die not even my worst enemy! I pray for everyone to be saved. I think the worst thing about hell is being cut off from my creator Father God.

I'm a born-again, Bible-believing Christian. I love the Authorised King James 1611 version of The Holy Bible.
 
Last edited:
This is a great post thank you. I'm shy also so I can relate. It is sad Michael Jackson and Princess Diana don't feature in the show as I thought of them as shy. Princess Diana was even known as "Shy Di". Both were great, kind, caring, loving people and are sadly missed.[/QUOTE

Thank you for your kindness.
I can understand that Moz, MJ, Steven Spielberg and whatever other famous people, can be an inspiration because they are all shy in their own way, but the thing is, when you really think about it you are too. And many other shy people that are not in the public eye.

I know some shy people that are great but the shyness is making it hard for them. If they would for once in their life express their feelings and emotions, if they would react directly what they feel without that truly irrational fear they would benefit from it.
There is nothing there to lose. I know it is not easy but I do believe it would be good.

Mind you I know people cannot change their own personality, but sometimes I just would like them to express completely, totally and honestly. To get rid of that kind of burden that is always putting them back. I want to shout, come on, you can do it. Be yourself but don't hold back.
 

Trending Threads

Back
Top Bottom