Morrissey and punk rock

Hovis Lesley

Well-Known Member
Wrong.
The Sex Pistol formed in 1975 and by 1978 they had split up. This time-frame is what most people consider as Punk. The Clash for example formed in 1976. Morrissey particularly liked bands/acts such as Television, Patti Smith, and the Ramones (NY based acts) from this period and perhaps less so the Sex Pistols, the Clash, and the Damned (from the UK). Iggy Pop and the New York Dolls came before this period but were considered originators of Punk.
Siouxsie and the Banshees were formed right at the very start of the UK Punk movement in 1976 - they were part of the "Bromley Contingent" who helped popularise the music and shaped the fashion in the UK. Their sound did evolve however and they were more successful commercially in the Post-Punk period. Similarly The Fall formed in 1976 although they too were more well known for their Post Punk output. Both bands were Punk bands originally.
Yep, The Fall were there at the beginning.
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
Wrong.
The Sex Pistol formed in 1975 and by 1978 they had split up. This time-frame is what most people consider as Punk. The Clash for example formed in 1976. Morrissey particularly liked bands/acts such as Television, Patti Smith, and the Ramones (NY based acts) from this period and perhaps less so the Sex Pistols, the Clash, and the Damned (from the UK). Iggy Pop and the New York Dolls came before this period but were considered originators of Punk.
Siouxsie and the Banshees were formed right at the very start of the UK Punk movement in 1976 - they were part of the "Bromley Contingent" who helped popularise the music and shaped the fashion in the UK. Their sound did evolve however and they were more successful commercially in the Post-Punk period. Similarly The Fall formed in 1976 although they too were more well known for their Post Punk output. Both bands were Punk bands originally.
They might have formed during the punk era, but the music they made was post punk. These things have less to do with timeframes than they do with music and sound (post punk is a genre of music). And even if you were right, that Siouxsie and the Fall both debuted with punk rock albums, the rest of their output would still be post punk, thus making them post punk bands.
 
Last edited:

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
He also like(d) Generation X!
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
Early Eno

Stooges

Lou Reed

Monochrome Set

B-52’s

LUDUS

Magazine

.....
Most of these bands and artists haven't recorded a single punk rock song. Eno was glam, the Stooges did what we now refer to as proto punk, Lou Reed made glam and artsy alternative rock, the Monochrome Set was a post punk band, the B 52's made power pop, Ludus was an art rock/experimental band and Magazine was a seminal post punk band. Most of them were punk in spirit, but they didn't play punk rock, which is what the OP was asking about.
 

smiler

Junior Member
They might have formed during the punk era, but the music they made was post punk. These things have less to do with timeframes than they do with music and sound (post punk is a genre of music). And even if you were right, that Siouxsie and the Fall both debuted with punk rock albums, the rest of their output would still be post punk, thus making them post punk bands.
not punk?

What you become does not wipe out what you were.
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
not punk?

What you become does not wipe out what you were.
Like I alluded at, they might have been doing some punk rock stuff at the very beginning, but it's wrong to call either bands punk rock bands. They quickly evolved into something entirely different and never really went back. Banshees hadn't even released their debut album in 1977. It came out in 1978 and sounded nothing like punk rock.
 

smiler

Junior Member
Like I alluded at, they might have been doing some punk rock stuff at the very beginning, but it's wrong to call either bands punk rock bands. They quickly evolved into something entirely different and never really went back. Banshees hadn't even released their debut album in 1977. It came out in 1978 and sounded nothing like punk rock.
"What you become does not wipe out what you were," Albert Camus said that or perhaps it was Nora Batty.
In the clip Siouxsie and the Banshees are playing the 100 club in 1977. You can't get much more Punk that that. The only way you could be more punk is if you got Sid Vicious to play drums for you..........oh wait...
 
Last edited:

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
"What you become does not wipe out what you were," Albert Camus said that or perhaps it was Nora Batty.
In the clip Siouxsie and the Banshees are playing the 100 club in 1977. You can't get much more Punk that that. The only way you could be more punk is if you got Sid Vicious to play drums for you..........oh wait...
Now you’re just repeating yourself, which forces me to repeat myself. Yes, they did some punk rock stuff at the very beginning (not debating that), but to call them a punk rock band is wrong. This is not my opinion. The music they made from when they debuted in 1978 and until they split in the 90s was never punk rock.
 
T

Trans

Guest
As an American my views on punk rock are likely to be very different than many here
 

smiler

Junior Member
"What you become does not wipe out what you were," Albert Camus said that or perhaps it was Nora Batty.

Now you’re just repeating yourself, which forces me to repeat myself. Yes, they did some punk rock stuff at the very beginning (not debating that), but to call them a punk rock band is wrong. This is not my opinion. The music they made from when they debuted in 1978 and until they split in the 90s was never punk rock.
So what is Bob Dylan to you, folk, folk-rock, rock, country, rap, blues, jazz, swing, pop, reggae, punk, gospel, Mississippi blues, lounge, easy listening?

Siouxsie and the Banshees played Manchester's Electric Circus on 15th of September 1977. The sounded like they did in that clip. Morrissey attended that night and enjoyed them greatly. "what a great punk band" he was heard to say (to himself) as he collected his ear muffs from the cloakroom.

 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
So what is Bob Dylan to you, folk, folk-rock, rock, country, rap, blues, jazz, swing, pop, reggae, punk, gospel, Mississippi blues, lounge, easy listening?

Siouxsie and the Banshees played Manchester's Electric Circus on 15th of September 1977. The sounded like they did in that clip. Morrissey attended that night and enjoyed them greatly. "what a great punk band" he was heard to say (to himself) as he collected his ear muffs from the cloakroom.

Dylan has consistently returned to his folk roots. Never swayed too far from folk. Banshees never released one single punk rock album. Again, not debating the fact that they played punk rock back in -77, before having released an album. And since that’s your only argument, maybe we should move on? You’re repeating yourself and forcing me to do the same.
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><><><><>
Most of these bands and artists haven't recorded a single punk rock song. Eno was glam, the Stooges did what we now refer to as proto punk, Lou Reed made glam and artsy alternative rock, the Monochrome Set was a post punk band, the B 52's made power pop, Ludus was an art rock/experimental band and Magazine was a seminal post punk band. Most of them were punk in spirit, but they didn't play punk rock, which is what the OP was asking about.

Nah, you’re WRONG and... you’re right.


I know there’s a general meaning and stereotype of what punk music or to be punk is, but that’s NOT HOW I DEFINE WHAT IS PUNK.

All the bands I listed and artists I listed are PUNK TO ME. LOUUUUU !

Simply put ... their ART is a simple way of saying FVCK YOU!!! to the accepted norms that is forced upon us by society.




MORRISSEY IS PUNK

BUFFY IS PUNK ...





“School bell go, "Ding! Dong! Ding!"
The children all line up
They do what they are told
Take a little drink from the liar's cup”



:rock::cool:
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
Nah, you’re WRONG and... you’re right.


I know there’s a general meaning and stereotype of what punk music or to be punk is, but that’s NOT HOW I DEFINE WHAT IS PUNK.

All the bands I listed and artists I listed are PUNK TO ME. LOUUUUU !

Simply put ... their ART is a simple way of saying FVCK YOU!!! to the accepted norms that is forced upon us by society.




MORRISSEY IS PUNK

BUFFY IS PUNK ...





“School bell go, "Ding! Dong! Ding!"
The children all line up
They do what they are told
Take a little drink from the liar's cup”



:rock::cool:
We're on the same page. They're punk (in spirit and often when it comes to lyrics as well). But they're not punk rock.
 

Jen M

Member
Television plays 11 minute songs proficiently. So it's not PUNK music. They were incredibly influential especially to any late 70s or early 80s musicians so that's not taking anything away from them.

This is good info. I haven't read many early interviews or Morrissey's book to know all of his influences.
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
Television plays 11 minute songs proficiently. So it's not PUNK music. They were incredibly influential especially to any late 70s or early 80s musicians so that's not taking anything away from them.

This is good info. I haven't read many early interviews or Morrissey's book to know all of his influences.
Right, and listening to Marquee Moon (masterpiece) for more than two seconds wil have anyone nodding in agreement that this is not punk rock. Despite Television being an integral part of the original NYC punk movement. Despite influencing numerous punk and post punk bands. Same goes for Patti Smith, really.
 

BrokenFrame

Well-Known Member
Right, and listening to Marquee Moon (masterpiece) for more than two seconds wil have anyone nodding in agreement that this is not punk rock. Despite Television being an integral part of the original NYC punk movement. Despite influencing numerous punk and post punk bands. Same goes for Patti Smith, really.
Do you consider Johnny Thunders and the heartbreakers to be punk?
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><><><><>
Do you consider Johnny Thunders and the heartbreakers to be punk?

He probably doesn’t.

But, I do.

Though it could easily by most be labeled ‘rock ‘n roll’ which I think Johnny would also call it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Thunders thought that he was more punk than any of those Rotten punk upstarts.
 
Top Bottom