Is there a 'real reason' why Morrissey and Johnny Marr never worked together again?

A

Anonymous

Guest
Obviously Morrissey would never work with Mike Joyce again after the court case, so I can understand why a full Smiths reformation has never been on the cards, but as regards Morrissey and Marr working together again, or even spending time together, well they seem to have only met up twice since 1987 (bar the court case) - once in the early nineties, at Chrissie Hynde's instigation, when they went for a drive on the moors or something and talked about old times, and once in 2008 when they met up in a Manchester pub and 'agreed' to a Smiths reformation, which Morrissey later nixed.

So what's really going on between them? What are the unresolved issued? Are there skeletons in the closet that nobody wants to discuss in public? The spats over why The Smiths broke up are ancient history by now, heck even the court case is ancient history now. That's one hell of a grudge if Morrissey is still carrying one, but if Marr's account of their meeting in 2008 is accurate, then it would appear Morrissey isn't carrying a grudge anyway.

So what's it all about? After their meet-up in 2008, they exchanged emails for a while. Did Marr suddenly casually mention that he wanted to share lead vocal and lyric duties? Did Morrissey insist that his mum run the business side of things? Was there some more private grievance from way back, some apology that one felt was owed, and the other didn't want to give?

Will we ever know?
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
I doubt anyone has an answer to this. I just know I’d take a Morrissey-Marr reunion over a Smiths reunion any day of the week.
 
D

Deleted member 29235

Guest
Obviously Morrissey would never work with Mike Joyce again after the court case, so I can understand why a full Smiths reformation has never been on the cards, but as regards Morrissey and Marr working together again, or even spending time together, well they seem to have only met up twice since 1987 (bar the court case) - once in the early nineties, at Chrissie Hynde's instigation, when they went for a drive on the moors or something and talked about old times, and once in 2008 when they met up in a Manchester pub and 'agreed' to a Smiths reformation, which Morrissey later nixed.

So what's really going on between them? What are the unresolved issued? Are there skeletons in the closet that nobody wants to discuss in public? The spats over why The Smiths broke up are ancient history by now, heck even the court case is ancient history now. That's one hell of a grudge if Morrissey is still carrying one, but if Marr's account of their meeting in 2008 is accurate, then it would appear Morrissey isn't carrying a grudge anyway.

So what's it all about? After their meet-up in 2008, they exchanged emails for a while. Did Marr suddenly casually mention that he wanted to share lead vocal and lyric duties? Did Morrissey insist that his mum run the business side of things? Was there some more private grievance from way back, some apology that one felt was owed, and the other didn't want to give?

Will we ever know?

I think that the last ten years of Morrissey making various disagreeable statements is more than enough to mean that Marr wouldn't touch him with a bargepole ever again. Marr was clearly open to working with Morrissey again in 2008 but too much has been said since then by both parties and the probability of a collaboration or reunion is now vanishingly small.
 

Eldritch

Well-Known Member
I guess there are several different reasons. Morrissey's mindset has always been that his newest album is his best and that his solo career has long since eclipsed The Smiths. Getting back with Marr would contradict with that. Plus he has been happy with his band for decades now and feels comfortable with Boz & Jesse & co, while reuniting with Marr could re-open old wounds and ignite old tensions. Plus his recent toxicity also is likely something that Marr wants no part of.
 

Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting
I doubt anyone has an answer to this. I just know I’d take a Morrissey-Marr reunion over a Smiths reunion any day of the week.

I think that has more chance of happening than a Smiths reunion. I also think a lot of people would be happy with that and who knows, they could write one last album together.
 
V

Vegan Cro Spirit .888

Guest
o_O

as his trolls have recently admitted, :handpointright::guardsman::handpointleft: was always lying, he became schitzo,
getting wigged up :bowing: as an old dude:blushing:
then, so peeps wouldnt stare at the wig he got hooky tats all over himself:hammer:
 
M

MiserableLies

Guest
Realistically, for Morrissey, there is no need to reunite. Why reopen old wounds?

Personally, I think there is too much personal turmoil between them. Too many years of back and forth insults in the press, scathing comments, etc. We know Morrissey is extremely difficult and very petty. In contrast, Johnny has maintained such a Nice Guy persona over the years. To my recollection Morrissey is the only person Johnny Marr has had bad things to say about from all the different groups he has worked with. When it comes to his former partner he has let some not very nice things slip into his interviews, especially in the years after the Smiths. You can still see some of it now in more recent interviews/social media. Their relationship and the demise of the Smiths is something I think both of them will never get over. Why is that? We'll probably never get any more details. I know what my money is on...
 

Carlisle baz

Cock of the north
I think the question is...
What happened after that meeting in 2008? as they were both up for it, so something has happened after that meeting...
so presumably they had forgiven each other for petty comments said prior.....
 

Flibberty

Well-Known Member
Realistically, for Morrissey, there is no need to reunite. Why reopen old wounds?

Personally, I think there is too much personal turmoil between them. Too many years of back and forth insults in the press, scathing comments, etc. We know Morrissey is extremely difficult and very petty. In contrast, Johnny has maintained such a Nice Guy persona over the years. To my recollection Morrissey is the only person Johnny Marr has had bad things to say about from all the different groups he has worked with. When it comes to his former partner he has let some not very nice things slip into his interviews, especially in the years after the Smiths. You can still see some of it now in more recent interviews/social media. Their relationship and the demise of the Smiths is something I think both of them will never get over. Why is that? We'll probably never get any more details. I know what my money is on...
And Mike, of course.
 
T

Trans

Guest
Morrisseys very into his artistic process and it’s results. I don’t think he wants to go backwards. It’s not like I think he wouldn’t enjoy it but it would probably also bother him as well as with it would come huge expectations, comparisons to a mental space he hasn’t occupied since his twenties and it would probably be a drag to feel like he has to toe to musical expectations or face nothing but criticism. I imagine that the only way it could really work is to have marr guest write a morrissey album. That way people would have more of an open expectation
 

Flibberty

Well-Known Member
I think Morrissey likes to do things his way and with the people he chooses. He wants people to focus on his most recent recordings, which is not exactly unique to him, and going back to working with Johnny would cast a shadow over his solo work.

Johnny would have been willing to do something, as he admitted, partly because the money would have been too good to turn down. While Morrissey doesn't mind earning a few quid, he will only do it in ways that suit him.

I think from Morrissey's perspective there is still some ill feeling over how Johnny split up the band and how the court case ended. Specifically them not being labelled as equals in the court case (a fair enough gripe), and then Johnny remaining silent when Morrissey was portrayed as the villain of the whole thing.
 
V

Vegan Cro Spirit .888

Guest
I think Morrissey likes to do things his way and with the people he chooses. He wants people to focus on his most recent recordings, which is not exactly unique to him, and going back to working with Johnny would cast a shadow over his solo work.

Johnny would have been willing to do something, as he admitted, partly because the money would have been too good to turn down. While Morrissey doesn't mind earning a few quid, he will only do it in ways that suit him.

I think from Morrissey's perspective there is still some ill feeling over how Johnny split up the band and how the court case ended. Specifically them not being labelled as equals in the court case (a fair enough gripe), and then Johnny remaining silent when Morrissey was portrayed as the villain of the whole thing.
:)
very true. moz would rather NOT associate with a wig tatted schitzo aka :handpointright::guardsman::handpointleft::headmassage:

🇭🇷>:hammer:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I think the question is...
What happened after that meeting in 2008? as they were both up for it, so something has happened after that meeting...
so presumably they had forgiven each other for petty comments said prior.....

And it's interesting that Morrissey never referred to that meeting (at least I don't think he did - maybe it's in his autobiography but I don't recall it, and I seem to remember that when Marr's book came out, that was its main selling point, because it was previously not public knowledge).

I think it's safe to assume that Marr didn't imagine the whole encounter, but is he gilding the lily as to how 'up for it' Morrissey was? Or did Morrissey just take a few days to sober up?

The conclusion I draw from Marr's telling of the story is that he said something in an email soon after that meeting, that put Morrissey right off the idea. Perhaps it has something to do with prioritising his tour commitments with that band he was knocking about with at the time, whatever they were called, not Modest Mouse, the other lot.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
I think from Morrissey's perspective there is still some ill feeling over how Johnny split up the band and how the court case ended. Specifically them not being labelled as equals in the court case (a fair enough gripe), and then Johnny remaining silent when Morrissey was portrayed as the villain of the whole thing.
I think this is the root of everything. Sometimes you can be friendly with people who have hurt you, but you don't really forget it and you're always a bit wary after that. Morrissey believes that Johnny has twice 'deserted' him (Smiths & court case) and if Autobio is anything to go by, he has an encyclopaedic knowledge of every catty remark Johnny sent in his direction.

Remember Johnny saying that he couldn't 'reunite' immediately because he had touring commitments with the Cribs? Imagine how that went down with M given their history and his pride in his own solo career - second-best to Johnny's 'promiscuous' sessioning, again. "I'd love to, Moz, but I've got to go to Mexico with the lads first and...". Radio silence. They both have 'grievances' with each other that they seem to have tried to paper over (rather than having a screaming row to let it all out). Morrissey's disastrous political comments won't have helped, nor will idiots like Nile pouring salt on the wound. It will be fixed some day, you'd hope.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I think this is the root of everything. Sometimes you can be friendly with people who have hurt you, but you don't really forget it and you're always a bit wary after that. Morrissey believes that Johnny has twice 'deserted' him (Smiths & court case) and if Autobio is anything to go by, he has an encyclopaedic knowledge of every catty remark Johnny sent in his direction.

Remember Johnny saying that he couldn't 'reunite' immediately because he had touring commitments with the Cribs? Well, imagine how that went down with M given their history - he'd feel second-best to Johnny's 'promiscuous' sessioning, again. "I'd love to, Moz, but I've got to go to Mexico with the lads first and...". Radio silence. They both have 'grievances' with each other that they seem to have tried to paper over (rather than having a screaming row to let it all out). Morrissey's disastrous political comments won't have helped, nor will idiots like Nile pouring salt on the wound. It will be fixed some day, you'd hope.

Ah, the Cribs! That was the name I was looking for. How could I have forgotten them? :rolleyes:

Yes, I agree, I doubt that went down well with Morrissey. It's fascinating that Marr was apparently so sure of the reunion happening that he told the Cribs about it.

Another anecdote that springs to mind from Morrissey's autobiography, in terms of his distrust of Marr, is how in the early days of The Smiths, he reckons Joe Moss was angling to get him (Morrissey) replaced, and that the others nearly went along with it. That would certainly explain Morrissey's antipathy to Moss, and doesn't sound implausible to me. Despite their meteoric success, I reckon Moss was a 'rock traditionalist' who maybe figured that Morrissey's appeal had only very limited potential, and that it would soon wither, whilst on the other hand Marr, Joyce and Rourke were a solid music combo that would run and run. If that really was the climate of the time, with Morrissey feeling that his group might desert him, it would reinforce his subsequent sense of injustice.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
If you split up and divorced with your wife/husband 30+ years ago, would you get back together? I'm sure there's a whole load of awkward, conflicting emotions there, plus even getting past that, the level-headed working out of whether taking such a massive step backwards would be a good career move for either of them, or even end up damaging the legacy of the band for some cash-in reunion tour.

Regarding the 2008 pub meeting, it's been speculated that the ultimate reason the proposed reunion didn't happen, is that Johnny said he would be happy to do it, but first he had to fulfill his promised commitments of a tour with The Cribs. By Johnny's account Morrissey himself was drinking heavily at that proposed reunion meeting. My hunch is that once Moz sobered up, his jealousy/paranoia about Johnny playing with other people reared its ugly head again, and he felt slighted/underappreciated/whatever and just ghosted him from them on. My gut feeling is that if Johnny had said 'OK - I'll drop everything on my plate, let's do it NOW', it would have happened.

I don't think there's any one, single secret reason a reunion hasn't happened, just a lot of bruised egos on both sides - and the killer fact that both need to be up for it at the same time. During the early solo years, Morrissey was still clearly up for a reunion. After a while it seemed like he'd hardened to the idea and was determined to stand alone, whilst Johnny seemed open to it. Now Morrissey's career has tanked, it would clearly be hugely in his interests to reform the band, but Moz is now so toxic I don't think Johnny has anything to gain by being associated with him. My feeling is they will never both be on the same page at the same time.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Now Morrissey's career has tanked, it would clearly be hugely in his interests to reform the band

I hope my career 'tanks' in a similar fashion some day - a multi-millionaire 4 years shy of retirement age with a devoted core audience, who still makes news headlines (no such thing as bad publicity). Heck, I reckon I could learn to live with that degree of failure.
 

Young And Alive

Senior Member
I actually think a reunion would be a big disappointment anyway.

As it is, The Smiths are dead, frozen in time, flawless.

"No, they can never touch you now..."

Let's keep it that way.

P.S. Whilst I don't doubt the 2008 meeting happened, given that it was in a pub in Manchester it beggars belief that no one recognised them and took sneaky photos. They haven't been pictured together since 1987 and it would have been nice to have seen a photo of them.
 
Top Bottom