How many of you are vegetarians?

when I was forced to eat meat as a child I never liked the taste, does that make me less of a vegetarian?
I think it matters not whether she does it for health or for moral reasons the important issue is that she does not willingly cause death and suffering and that ALWAYS a good thing.

Also I know of a LOT of 'moral' vegetarians who couldnt give a stuff about using leather etc, so they, (by your argument Kewpie) are just as un veggie as this girl is.

Exactly. I know quite a few people who became vegetarians simply because they hated the taste of meat; some are now enthusiastic about the ethical aspect of it, some aren't. Whether the decision to not eat meat was taken because of ethics and animal rights or not, that person is still at least doing something to challenge the meat industry and the obsession our culture has with meat. Therefore, it is an ethical choice even if the individual couldn't give a flying toss about that side of things.
 
Can you explain to me how come it involves vegetarianism?

Crystal in fact raises a very interesting point in that she attempts to define what is a vegetarian. Is intent crucial, as you assume so scornfully or is the mere act enough to define a person as such?
 
I am a veggie, it has to be said, Though I can't give the credit for this to Morrissey not really.
I had been listening to Moz for 7 years before I gave up meat. It was a number of things that swung it for me, the animal welfare issues (even when I was eating meat I still hated people mistreating animals), BSE, the rubbish that was being pumped into meat etc.
In the end I did start eating fish for a couple of years as I kept feeling weak, these days I am back on the veggie diet.
I like this thread
 
Aye, they'd all be freed and allowed to live in peace on an island of their own :rolleyes:

No, what you said is that turkeys, sheep and pigs would be extinct if it wasn't for the meat industry. This is not true. There are populations of wild turkeys, pigs and sheep scattered throughout the world, along with wild chickens and cows.

These animals can exist very much on their own without their populations being sustained by industrial farming.
 
I haven't followed this argument closely but are we doing pigs, sheep and cows a favor by factory farming them? :rofl:
 
No, what you said is that turkeys, sheep and pigs would be extinct if it wasn't for the meat industry. This is not true. There are populations of wild turkeys, pigs and sheep scattered throughout the world, along with wild chickens and cows.

These animals can exist very much on their own without their populations being sustained by industrial farming.

Suspect there'd be a hell of a lot less. Anyway the only vegetarians I respect are vegans, anyone who tries to take the moral upper hand on this and then eats fish, seafood, eggs, or factory farmed milk and dairy products is a joke really.
 
Suspect there'd be a hell of a lot less. Anyway the only vegetarians I respect are vegans, anyone who tries to take the moral upper hand on this and then eats fish, seafood, eggs, or factory farmed milk and dairy products is a joke really.

No, they're not. They are not contributing to the slaughter of animals, even if they are still eating and drinking dairy. Someone who eats fish is not a vegetarian. Any contribution to lessen the suffering of animals is to be welcomed. Similarly, as done elsewhere in this thread, to suggest that if one buys a cheap shirt in Penney's or Primark, for example, who may exploit workers in other countries, it in some way negates one's vegetarianism or veganism, is a really idiotic linkage.



I am a Vegan as well as a Ghost.
 
No, they're not. They are not contributing to the slaughter of animals, even if they are still eating and drinking dairy. Someone who eats fish is not a vegetarian. Any contribution to lessen the suffering of animals is to be welcomed. Similarly, as done elsewhere in this thread, to suggest that if one buys a cheap shirt in Penney's or Primark, for example, who may exploit workers in other countries, it in some way negates one's vegetarianism or veganism, is a really idiotic linkage.



I am a Vegan as well as a Ghost.

When the milk yield from a dairy cow drops off the animal is slaughtered.

Also, what do you think happens to all the male calves that are born on dairy farms?
 
If a cow ever got the chance, he'd eat you and everyone you care about...



By the way, Mrs F has been Veggie for two months now, and wants to stay that way. This was after reading George Bernard Shaw. I love my wife.

P.
 
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Suspect there'd be a hell of a lot less. Anyway the only vegetarians I respect are vegans, anyone who tries to take the moral upper hand on this and then eats fish, seafood, eggs, or factory farmed milk and dairy products is a joke really.

Well, I don't agree
I think as long as people make an effort then at least it's a start. Nobody likes
people that live to take the moral high ground, the trouble is in modern life it's hard not to be seen to take the high ground as people seem to live their lives in the moral low ground.
Although, it's true there may not be quite as many animals if they were not bread to be slaughtered. It's, also, true (I think), that no life is a better than a half life lived in pain and suffering from birth to death
 
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When the milk yield from a dairy cow drops off the animal is slaughtered.

Also, what do you think happens to all the male calves that are born on dairy farms?

1. Cattle are raised for slaughter also and not just used as milk yielders.

2. Calves are raised for slaughter also.

As I say, I believe that any contribution which lessens suffering is to be welcomed. There are more than just dairy industries, there are meat industries and veal industries. It is estimated that the average vegetarian or vegan spares the lives of between fifty to ninety-five animals a year.
 
when I was forced to eat meat as a child I never liked the taste, does that make me less of a vegetarian?
I think it matters not whether she does it for health or for moral reasons the important issue is that she does not willingly cause death and suffering and that ALWAYS a good thing.

Also I know of a LOT of 'moral' vegetarians who couldnt give a stuff about using leather etc, so they, (by your argument Kewpie) are just as un veggie as this girl is.

^^^All of this^^^

I have never liked meat. Never. Even when I didn't know what animals went through. So it was easy for me to be a veggie. Now I'm older, I feel a bit of a fraud - I'm a veggie because I never liked meat anyway; yet I can see that the way flesh gets to the mouths of humans is a disgrace, an absolute disgrace. We have no right to lord it over animals, just because we can.

P.
 
I've been vegetarian for over 13 years now I guess. I'm 28 and well i can easily say that I became so because of ethical reasons. The smiths' meat is murder was the turning point although some straight edge bands influenced me earlier. But since Morrissey wrote those lyrics I was like... Ok I'm gonna go for it.

A lot of people also think that vegans/veggies are scrawny skinny kids...

I beg to differ... I work out a lot and never had any problems whatsoever with vitamins...
l_dfc843474f34406d9e90b17207ed046f.jpg
 
1. Cattle are raised for slaughter also and not just used as milk yielders.

2. Calves are raised for slaughter also.

As I say, I believe that any contribution which lessens suffering is to be welcomed. There are more than just dairy industries, there are meat industries and veal industries. It is estimated that the average vegetarian or vegan spares the lives of between fifty to ninety-five animals a year.

I think the point he's getting towards here is that if cattle weren't raised for milk and/or slaughter, it wouldn't be raised at all. Hence, the consumption of meat and milk has given life to billions of animals who would not otherwise have existed. If you are sparing any animals' lives by not eating meat and drinking milk, it is in the sense of animals who might have existed if people weren't vegetarians, but don't. The consequence of a vegan world wouldn't be happy cows and happy chickens, but pretty much no cows and no chickens. And expensive wool. Possibly that might still be seen as ethically preferable to millions of animals raised for slaughter, but let's not tell fairy tales about saving animals' lives here.

Secondly, theoretically speaking: If somebody produced milk from cows who weren't slaughtered but were allowed to die natural deaths, vegans would have no reason not to drink the milk or eat products made from it? And I don't ask rethorically.

Thirdly, to the population in general: Much of the previous discussion about CGs friend in fact invokes the most classical point of contention in all of moral philosophy: The issue of whether morality resides in the motives of an act, or in the nature of the act itself. Or as a more recent philsopher put it: Is evil something you are, or something you do? :) No one has so far been able to settle that one with anything like finality, so I'd go easy on the assertiveness in whatever reply you care for. ;)
 
I think the point he's getting towards here is that if cattle weren't raised for milk and/or slaughter, it wouldn't be raised at all. Hence, the consumption of meat and milk has given life to billions of animals who would not otherwise have existed. If you are sparing any animals' lives by not eating meat and drinking milk, it is in the sense of animals who might have existed if people weren't vegetarians, but don't. The consequence of a vegan world wouldn't be happy cows and happy chickens, but pretty much no cows and no chickens. And expensive wool. Possibly that might still be seen as ethically preferable to millions of animals raised for slaughter, but let's not tell fairy tales about saving animals' lives here.

Secondly, theoretically speaking: If somebody produced milk from cows who weren't slaughtered but were allowed to die natural deaths, vegans would have no reason not to drink the milk or eat products made from it? And I don't ask rethorically.

Thirdly, to the population in general: Much of the previous discussion about CGs friend in fact invokes the most classical point of contention in all of moral philosophy: The issue of whether morality resides in the motives of an act, or in the nature of the act itself. Or as a more recent philsopher put it: Is evil something you are, or something you do? :) No one has so far been able to settle that one with anything like finality, so I'd go easy on the assertiveness in whatever reply you care for. ;)

Yeah! What he said!!

Thank you Qvist. :sweet:
 
(I think), that no life is a better than a half life lived in pain and suffering from birth to death

Exactly,

the whole 'they'd become extinct' line is a typical carnivores remark/excuse for eating flesh,
they wouldnt become extinct, (there are some of us out here that keep 'farm animals as 'pets', and let them live their natural lifespans)
and frankly id rather they were extinct than used in the way they are. *sigh*
 
I gave my foie gras to the cat.:straightface: I know it doesn't help him becoming a vegetarian, but who cares, as he's run away again without taking his antibiotics with him.:thumb: (last week he came back all bloody, probably half eaten by a non vegetarian fox. I thought he'd die on Christmas day but the vet saved him -again!-)

The food chain eh.
 
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