Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted?

LetsGoDevils

Bannedtastic
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

I see that in the "Off Topic" section of this forum a person created the screenname "Stoney Hando" to post a thread backing Morrissey.

The thread is MORRISSEY vs. David "SOLOW" Tseng - I CHOOSE MORRISSEY!

"Stoney Hando" is a racist skinhead character in the Australian movie Romper Stomper. In the film, the character likes to violently attack Asian immigrants, because in his opinion they don't belong there.

Morrissey is a big fan of that movie, once signed a press release under the name "Stoney Hando", and took a line from the movie - "this is not your country" - as a song title. And it's a powerful movie. But, sometimes we have to wonder if Morrissey likes that movie for the wrong reasons, given his issues with race over the years. And we can see the reason that fan is using the name, in the wake of Morrissey's actions.

So, Morrissey's Nazi treatment of Tseng is generating racism.

For another example, this was just posted by one of Morrissey's fans elsewhere on the site:



BTW, did Morrissey and the band ever give David Tseng his refund, as they should? Perhaps one of Boz Boorer's butt-lickers should ask Boz over on his Facebook wall.
Theo you may be on to something. I can't get past he actions when he makes a statement like this: "The very existence of the Queen and her now enormous family ... is entirely against any notion of democracy, and is against freedom of speech. For a broad historical view of what the Queen is and how she 'rules', examine Gaddafi or Mubarak, and see if you can spot any difference."
You can't be a champion of free speech and 2 months later kick someone out because you don't like what a third person writes on a message board.
 

Mozluv

Member
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

Hey David.. I think you are a totally stand up guy... I've known you for many years now & you have done so MUCH for Morrissey & KEEPING his Career ALIVE. The online LOVE started with Morrissey-Solo. I know on days like this.. you probably ask yourself why you keep the site going. No one could do this job.. like you. You are a very KIND person & I really wish you all the best. I am really PISSED OFF at Morrissey for acting like a TOTAL OLD ASS MAN & a JERK. I have NEVER known for him to ACT like this in such a VILE way....against a fan. You have supported him.. when NO ONE ELSE ONLINE WAS.. & IF THEY WERE.. IT WAS TO MAKE MONEY OFF OF HIM! EWWW.. He maybe be talented... but his common sense is for shit these days... & SO IS HIS MUSIC!! I S A I D IT MOZ!! Are you going to BAN ALL OF US FANS that have LOVED YOUR MUSIC FROM THE START! CRAP IS CRAP.. & YOUR WRITING LATELY SUCKS!!! HATE IT!! THROWING IT INTO THE FIRE!! BLAH!! BORING!! BLEH!!! YOU WANT SOME INSPIRATION.. DRAW FROM THIS!! YOU ARE CAUSING A WAR BETWEEN YOUR FANS & YOU... GOOD WAY OF STARTING IT... BECAUSE IT HAS BEGAN!!!
 

bored

Lust a prima vista
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

Someone should start a thread about that lunatic Julia Riley and why Morrissey encourages her to be such a pathetic worshipper.

That's not true!!!!

Morrissey said she is his friend.

I remember back in like 1997 she made him a birthday cake and got it to him somehow.

The strange thing I find with Julia is that if you say anything bad about her people think you're jelly.

I wouldn't want to go to all the shows. It's tiring and redundant.

When he toured for YOR I went to one show. I didn't even bother with the Boston show because I had seen him at MGM in Connecticut the night before and didn't feel like doing back to back shows.

So I'm not jealous of Julia. I do think it's horrible when she gets the microphone. She never says anything interesting. It's always trite, predictable ass-kissing.

With friends like her, who needs enemas?
 

bored

Lust a prima vista
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

Theo you may be on to something. I can't get past he actions when he makes a statement like this: "The very existence of the Queen and her now enormous family ... is entirely against any notion of democracy, and is against freedom of speech. For a broad historical view of what the Queen is and how she 'rules', examine Gaddafi or Mubarak, and see if you can spot any difference."
You can't be a champion of free speech and 2 months later kick someone out because you don't like what a third person writes on a message board.

Post of the year.

I forgot about that quote.
 

gwen

New Member
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

Theo you may be on to something. I can't get past he actions when he makes a statement like this: "The very existence of the Queen and her now enormous family ... is entirely against any notion of democracy, and is against freedom of speech. For a broad historical view of what the Queen is and how she 'rules', examine Gaddafi or Mubarak, and see if you can spot any difference."
You can't be a champion of free speech and 2 months later kick someone out because you don't like what a third person writes on a message board.

How are they mutually exclusive? I consider myself an ardent advocate of free speech, but for example, I'd tell anyone who misbehaved in my home to shut the f*** up and leave at once. Along similar lines, let's say that I owned restaurant, and some of the homophobes of the Westboro Baptist church happened to walk in. I would not hesitate an iota in telling any one of them to leave my restaurant at once. I'll fight for their right to free speech and protest in public settings, but it is an entirely different matter when I tell them to get out of my own private restaurant. And further still along similar lines, let's say that I'm a rock star, and some journalist who has been very unflattering to me in the past is found to be one of the attendees. And I tell that journalist to get the f*** out, am I now disavowing my advocacy of free speech? Hardly. I'm not prohibiting the journalist from writing, and voicing his opinions. I'm merely telling the journalist that this is a private show in a private venue, and he is not welcome.
 

Flax

Active Member
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

If this webiste is all about free speech, how come I was banned once for posting an animated gif?

If this website is all about free speech, can I post pornography?
 

The_Myth

New Member
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

If this webiste is all about free speech, how come I was banned once for posting an animated gif?

If this website is all about free speech, can I post pornography?

You do not understand the limits of free speech. You cannot yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater unless there is a fire, and you cannot pass out pornography to children, for examples. Am I correct in guessing that your animated gif was inappropriate in some way? (I see your Jesus avatar has stem showing....)

And, gwen, you can be sued for refusing service based upon discriminatory practices. Are you aware of this incident? It led to this law, specifically this clause. Discrimination based upon religion applies here too. So, unless they start preaching and disrupting business, it's illegal in the USA to toss out people you don't like just because of their religion.

Also, an interview with a journalist is a voluntary behavior. A rock star can refuse to be interviewed but cannot demand a journalist not write about him or her ever again. That's ludicrous. Nor can that rock star sue the journalist because he was written about. He might sue for libel, but said rock star must prove 1. that what was printed was a lie and 2. that there was some sort of harm caused by it. If it's a true story, or a story written in good faith, or an opinion, or no actual malice is found, then no crime was committed.

Of course, these are USA laws. I wonder -- How do things work in Denmark? Wouldn't it be poetic if M was banned from Denmark for an alleged civil rights violation?
 

Buzzetta

WOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

You do not understand the limits of free speech. You cannot yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater unless there is a fire, and you cannot pass out pornography to children, for examples. Am I correct in guessing that your animated gif was inappropriate in some way? (I see your Jesus avatar has stem showing....)

And, gwen, you can be sued for refusing service based upon discriminatory practices. Are you aware of this incident? It led to this law, specifically this clause. Discrimination based upon religion applies here too. So, unless they start preaching and disrupting business, it's illegal in the USA to toss out people you don't like just because of their religion.

Also, an interview with a journalist is a voluntary behavior. A rock star can refuse to be interviewed but cannot demand a journalist not write about him or her ever again. That's ludicrous. Nor can that rock star sue the journalist because he was written about. He might sue for libel, but said rock star must prove 1. that what was printed was a lie and 2. that there was some sort of harm caused by it. If it's a true story, or a story written in good faith, or an opinion, or no actual malice is found, then no crime was committed.

Of course, these are USA laws. I wonder -- How do things work in Denmark? Wouldn't it be poetic if M was banned from Denmark for an alleged civil rights violation?

While you are correct in your point on yelling "Fire" in a crowded movie theater when no such fire exists, that cites Schenck v United States 1919 where the true standard is cited in Brandenburg v Ohio 1969 where the scope of the restriction on speech was narrowed. Nowadays any speech that creates a situation of "imminent lawless action" is determined to be the line between what is protected and what is not under the US Constitution.

However after that is all said and done... This only applies to the public sector as far as the governments ability to imprison you for your actions. As a private entity you are allowed to discriminate the actions of your employees, participants in a club or user of your private service if you can prove that the employee, participant or user interferes with the the image that you as the private entity are trying to convey. As the private entity you can deny employment or use of service based upon personal convictions of the employer or organizer of the activity or management of the service so long as those convictions are universally held and do not discriminate or target by reason of gender, religion, nationality or race. Even then you still have some rights such as the Boy Scouts of America or an all african american running club.

For example: Dress codes at work- of you do not adhere to it you can be fired. If you are hosting your own public access TV show promoting discrimination against African Americans you may be protected under the Constitution to express your views but that does not mean your boss has to keep you. You may be fired. As I write this I am reminded of Gilbert Godfried who was recently fired by AFLAC after his tweets regarding the tsunami in Japan.

There is always a fine line between what people believe they are allowed to do and what they may not under the first amendment, however many people do not truly realize that this defines the relationship between the citizen and government and not the relationship between citizen to citizen in the private sector.

You may understand that, but I do not think that a lot of people around here do.

It's David's playground, you play by his rules or you find a new playground.
 

Flax

Active Member
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

You do not understand the limits of free speech. You cannot yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater unless there is a fire, and you cannot pass out pornography to children, for examples. Am I correct in guessing that your animated gif was inappropriate in some way? (I see your Jesus avatar has stem showing....)

I do understand free speech very well.
And no, there was absolutely NOTHING inappropriate. The gif I posted was a blinking message written by one of the mods here. I was banned simply because davidt found the GIF "annoying".

Not Right In The Head was banned for having an image on his signature that was a few pixels larger than whatever the TOS says.

Free speech for anonymous? Bullshit.

Maybe I don't understand the TOS that I never read, but from what I see, this is the so precious free speech we have here:

- Annoying animated GIF = bad, grounds for banning
- Posting Years of Refusal to be downloaded by 25,000 people days before it was officially released = free speech
- Plastering shit all over the main page with obnoxious, useless anonymous crap = free speech
- Posting a photo of Kewpie, getting banned for it (ok understandable), apologizing to DavidT in person = banned for life from this site

I like this system.
 
D

DianaDors

Guest
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

What Morrissey did tonight was childish, petty, and hurtful on a frighteningly obscene level.

Whereas the vicious, vile, deluded crap that imbeciles like you post on here with alarming regularity isn't? Or is it one rule for you and another rule for him? This site no longer even offers the pretence of being a Morrissey fansite - it's merely an outlet for the impotent rage of talentless bedroom critics and c***s with serious personality disorders.

Bye bye, children.
 
S

Skylarker

Guest
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

Whereas the vicious, vile, deluded crap that imbeciles like you post on here with alarming regularity isn't? Or is it one rule for you and another rule for him? This site no longer even offers the pretence of being a Morrissey fansite - it's merely an outlet for the impotent rage of talentless bedroom critics and c***s with serious personality disorders.

Bye bye, children.

So similar to what mom said when she left me and my sister in the woods that fateful morn...
 

not_me_not_I

New Member
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

So similar to what mom said when she left me and my sister in the woods that fateful morn...

Absolute troll post this thread in general.
Morrissey expressed his fondness for Mel T, who was of Asian descent.
Morrissey's exasperation/hatred for David T has nothing to do with his racial heritage.
Ridiculous.
 

gwen

New Member
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

And, gwen, you can be sued for refusing service based upon discriminatory practices. Are you aware of this incident? It led to this law, specifically this clause. Discrimination based upon religion applies here too. So, unless they start preaching and disrupting business, it's illegal in the USA to toss out people you don't like just because of their religion.

Not to sound so blunt about it, but you've missed the point. Firstly who said I'm kicking them out for their religious views? That's your assumption. No, I'm kicking them out because they're assholes. Similarly, I'd kick Al Sharpton out of my restaurant as well. He'd might complain it's because I'm racist when in fact I'd be doing it because he's an asshole.

Second, the fact that we're dealing with the Westboro characters is wholly ancillary to the issue at hand. Indeed, let's substitute the Westboro folks for another important figure in free speech jurisprudence, to wit, Larry Flynt. I really don't dislike him, but could I tell him to leave my restaurant, leave my concert, etc? The answer is yes.

And that is the issue -- As a private individual, can I kick someone out of my private concert while maintaining my views on free speech? From a legal standpoint, the answer is a resounding yes because free speech violations ONLY occur when the government (or an arm of the government) prohibits speech. From a philosophical standpoint, the answer is still yes because, unless you're not human, you will probably exercise your right to suppress certain speech in your own private domain, but that doesn't philosophically make you an opponent of free speech. Consequently, Morrissey as a private individual in a private venue was well within his purview of kicking out D.Tseng while being able to consistently adhere to the notions of free speech.

Also, an interview with a journalist is a voluntary behavior. A rock star can refuse to be interviewed but cannot demand a journalist not write about him or her ever again. That's ludicrous.

Obviously, but that's not what we're talking about here.


Nor can that rock star sue the journalist because he was written about. He might sue for libel, but said rock star must prove 1. that what was printed was a lie and 2. that there was some sort of harm caused by it. If it's a true story, or a story written in good faith, or an opinion, or no actual malice is found, then no crime was committed.

I realize I'm being pedantic about it, but when it comes to a public figure like a rock star (in the US anyway), the public figure must not only prove that it was a lie, and that there are damages, plaintiff must also prove "actual malice", which is not required for defamation lawsuits for non-public figures. As a result, it is extremely difficult for a public figure to prevail in such cases.

And also, in the context of your example, it's a tort, not a crime.
 

Buzzetta

WOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

Not to sound so blunt about it, but you've missed the point. Firstly who said I'm kicking them out for their religious views? That's your assumption. No, I'm kicking them out because they're assholes. Similarly, I'd kick Al Sharpton out of my restaurant as well. He'd might complain it's because I'm racist when in fact I'd be doing it because he's an asshole.

Second, the fact that we're dealing with the Westboro characters is wholly ancillary to the issue at hand. Indeed, let's substitute the Westboro folks for another important figure in free speech jurisprudence, to wit, Larry Flynt. I really don't dislike him, but could I tell him to leave my restaurant, leave my concert, etc? The answer is yes.

And that is the issue -- As a private individual, can I kick someone out of my private concert while maintaining my views on free speech? From a legal standpoint, the answer is a resounding yes because free speech violations ONLY occur when the government (or an arm of the government) prohibits speech. From a philosophical standpoint, the answer is still yes because, unless you're not human, you will probably exercise your right to suppress certain speech in your own private domain, but that doesn't philosophically make you an opponent of free speech. Consequently, Morrissey as a private individual in a private venue was well within his purview of kicking out D.Tseng while being able to consistently adhere to the notions of free speech.



Obviously, but that's not what we're talking about here.




I realize I'm being pedantic about it, but when it comes to a public figure like a rock star (in the US anyway), the public figure must not only prove that it was a lie, and that there are damages, plaintiff must also prove "actual malice", which is not required for defamation lawsuits for non-public figures. As a result, it is extremely difficult for a public figure to prevail in such cases.

And also, in the context of your example, it's a tort, not a crime.

I think I am in love.
 

SparkleBoy

worships Johnny Thunders

platypus

New Member
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

Absolute troll post this thread in general.
Morrissey expressed his fondness for Mel T, who was of Asian descent.
Morrissey's exasperation/hatred for David T has nothing to do with his racial heritage.
Ridiculous.

Agreed. Morrissey is too intelligent to be racist.
 

platypus

New Member
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

Yet again, a member of this forum initiates a rumor/idiotic theory - with the crux of the issue being taken completely out of context.

Yeah, how shocking.
 

Happy Maudlin

Corinthian and Caricature
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

Agreed. Morrissey is too intelligent to be racist.

But not rational enough to not be spiteful, though. I thought Theo was exaggerating, but Morrissey is becoming more fascistic than David Bowie was in theory
 
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S

Skylarker

Guest
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

Agreed. Morrissey is too intelligent to be racist.

Hitler was extremely intelligent too, and look what he did.

Intelligence alone is not what makes or breaks a racist...you must factor in emotions, experiences, upbringing, social phobias...all of that.

There are idiots and geniuses on both sides of the race issue. Don't let him off the hook so easily.

Read between the lines of lyrics and interviews and firsthand anecdotes over many, many years and wonder if you can definitively clear him of all suspicion.

The "Jewboy" story regarding Spencer says it all.
 

Theo

Active Member
Re: Did Morrissey's anti-Chinese racism have anything to do with Tseng getting booted

Theo you may be on to something. I can't get past he actions when he makes a statement like this: "The very existence of the Queen and her now enormous family ... is entirely against any notion of democracy, and is against freedom of speech. For a broad historical view of what the Queen is and how she 'rules', examine Gaddafi or Mubarak, and see if you can spot any difference."
You can't be a champion of free speech and 2 months later kick someone out because you don't like what a third person writes on a message board.


I, for one, started feeling very negative towards Morrissey as a person (as opposed to as a singer) several years ago. I don't feel like getting into all the reasons why at this moment, but the ridiculous life-long ban of David Tseng just further corroborates the aspects of his mentality that I find despicable. It's just another vindication about what many of us have been pointing out for some time. He's a good singer, songwriter, and performer. I dont think he's a good human being.
 
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