Conservatives & Morrissey Fans

wow...did you purposely want to find something to jump on. i know the definition of stalking, and obviously i don';t mean it in that way. a lot of pepole use the word 'stalk' when fans wait outside hotels and venues and homes (though you never did that..oh wait, you did say you chatted with morrissey's gardener).

so chill dude. i was being nice. :cool:

escalate tone? lol, that was the calmest exchange i have had with you. wow.

Fair Enough... I will take you at your word.

Yeah, I did chat with his gardener I asked if moz was home, he told me about the fan kicking his car, he said Morrissey gave him a CD but he didn't like it. I asked how big the property was in the back, he said not very big at all. He said that Moz had a lot of trash bags back there, he thought he was lazy and didn't like to take the trash out to the curb and it was one of the jobs the gardner had to do for him. He also told me I should have came the prior week because Moz was outside nitpicking about a bunch of stuff and would have been a good time to catch him. After that I came back one more time and saw his dented fender. I thought it was odd he didn't park in the garage, guess he is kinda lazy. Anyway while I was waiting, one of the neighbors called the cops and they asked me to move along. So I gave up on the idea of trying to meet him at home. I was iffy about it the idea until I saw some other fans had done it with success and he seemed not to mind. I think the fan kicking his car changed his feelings about it. Anyway, I gave up on the idea. Now he doesn't live in LA it might be much eaiser to meet him on more neutral ground.

The only other celeb. I met at their house was David Bowie. Who was super cool about it. He asked if I could help him carry some bags to the car, I said sure! I has a few things for him to sign and he said "that's it? You should have brought the whole collection!" At the end he said, I don't care how you found out I live here, but please don't tell anyone else. I met him 2 other times just out of dumb luck. Once in a parking lot and once at Tower Records on Sunset. I also met him at sound check at Dodger Stadium when he did his "Greatest Hits" tour I want to say '89 but can't remember off hand. I had Morrissey sign with a marker that Bowie had previously used and Morrissey insisted on keeping it. It was kinda nice to know that even in '91 he could still get star struck.

Ya know, there just wasn't much for someone under 21 to do in LA. So we would find celebs. and get autographs and photos. God, I wish I had a better camera back then! You wouldn't believe how many rolls of shots got ruined.

Cheers,

Kumo
 
I am so sorry to hear you say that. Nothing ill about you, but i kinda feel sorry for you.

Just like animals.. life begins at conception... i know first hand.
does 2 cells not become 4, then 8 then 16, 32, then 64 and so on? that is LIFE! I really don't want this to be an Abortion deal.. not my thing., but life is life. It begins at conception!!!! period, amen.. and for those who do not believe that well, they are just stupid and have not don their homework. The only reason why WE are here on Earth is to pro-create.. your mom and dad did it, and that's why you re here. I know this is in laments terms, but crap! why do people hve to do dumb things! If you don't want a kid, then have protective measures. If you can't do that, then well , you're (meaning whomever) are just dumb.
Desire has just about ruined everyones life. Europe cannot even substain (sic) its population. There are more people dying and not enough giving birth. Europe, is a dying continent.

BUT, you or whomever have never explained why its cruel to kill animals but its alright to kill kiddos. I'm veggie, but i'm pro-life.. it only makes sense, no politics involved, just a clear conscience.

I always thought it was strange that we have laws protecting animals and yet its perfectly fine to eat them. I also found it odd that some animals are protected and not others. I think it sends mixed signals.

One of the things that bugs me about Bush is his stance on wanting to ban horse meat exports to Belgium, Japan and Italy. Yet he also pushed Japan to accept our beef after the BSE scare. I understand there is more money in beef exports but how can you be an animal-rights activist only when it comes to horses? Our society supports animal racism.

I just want equality if it's okay to eat cows, then it should be okay to eat any animal or if you are going to bad horse meat for moral reasons then you should ban all animals sold for food.

Whatever...

Kumo
 
i would never kill a kid. if you want to abort an animal's baby, then go ahead. BUT you would need her permission!! which is impossible.

i just don't see the cells or the very early fetus as the kind of life identical to yours and mine or the newborn. it is very far from being a formed human and it has no sense of self. it wouldn't feel pain that early.

there is a huge problem with overpopulation, but it's not because of people being dumb (though there is that), it is partly because of people on your side pushing 'no sex til marriage' :rolleyes: . and people pushed by the church to have large families. and no talk of safe sex among many with similar anti-abortion views to yours. and humans are unfortunately given a deep sense of self and brain power unlike any other animal. so it is no longer true that our only purpose is to pro-create. we are 'above' that simple way of seeing meaning on this planet (and indeed we are the only ones who seek meaning and interpret and form meaning). if you feel your life goal is that simple, i feel sorry for you. for it would mean you are to a large extent close-minded in views, and to your own potential.

i do not feel sorry for your anti-choice anti-abortion stance, i have friends who are too. i think it is fine. I am against the rare partial birth abortion becaues the fetus is too far formed at that stage. BUT, if it means the mother's life--a life already established on the planet, with a deep understanding of self--then she has the right to live over the baby in HER body.

are you against the day after pill?


You should be able to abort a child if it's defective. What if you had a kid that no one knew during the trimesters it was seriously defective and when it came out there was zero chance of it ever having any kind normal or happy life? Why should you spend the rest of your years watching a child suffer endlessly? We need to legalize euthanasia!!!

Kumo
 
For the record I never stalked anyone on my life. That is a very serious and libelous accusation. I am going to let slide and assume you don't know the definition of a stalker or its legal implications. I highly recommend you invest in a “Black’s Law Dictionary”

I don’t mind the bullshit and trash talk, but this crosses a very serious line…

Please don’t escalate your tone any further, you obviously don’t like my posts, I suggest you take David’s advice and put me on ignore…

Good Luck,

Kumo


Kumo - you are a stalker.

You stalk Morrissey. You stalked Morrissey. You big stalker you..

(Awaiting Lawyer's letter)

...He ran away
 
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“Mankind is annoyed because the truth is so simple” – Goethe

“A new America is on the drawing boards for the twenty-first century. Various versions are being designed and promoted, and the great assembly of flattered selves is shopping again, shopping for a representation [economic models, revenge movie scripts…] of the world that will distract us most convincingly from the reality of unrepresentable possibility. As the chosen versions, whatever they turn out to be, take hold of the way everything gets represented and therefore, eventually, of the way everything gets constituted, the surreal atmosphere will dissipate and virtuality will fuse with reality again, to create a good-enough semblance of normality. Masses of people who found themselves and their world projected into the existential nothing after 9/11, will find relief from that state of suspense, and great industries will be devoted to providing it, and profiting from that provision. That state is one is which world-transforming questions can be raised, but it is the very opposite of comfortable. It is the state that existentialists and surrealists once prescribed for the sensibility of an avant-garde adjusting to mechanized madness and slaughter in the early twentieth century. We saw that sensibitily democratized, for a while, at the beginning of the twenty-first. But it will not last, for it is vulnerable to unbearable truths. The bubble of self-regarding self-representation that has insulated us for so long from the suffering of millions in a world dominated by our interests and institutions – that bubble will reform around us…” – p. 291, “Mediated” by Thomas De Zengotita

For how long, though? Could conservatives take a few steps left?

“Experts can predict but they can never know the future” – Albert Einstein.

It is all very well to trivialize the masses that crawl subordinately upon this earth, to direct them to ‘get yourselves back to the ghetto’, but beware! The Worm might turn, and in that aboriginal brilliance that sycophantic slags so lack, might very well mesmerize aspiring imperialists with a backward look into pitiful pillars of inanimate salt…

10 facts about worms – from: http://www.allaboutworms.com/10-great-earth-worm-facts

1. Every worm can be both a mom and a dad - but not with itself. Each individual is a “hermaphrodite”, an animal with both male and female sex organs. Each produces both sperm and eggs, but each worm’s eggs must be fertilized by the sperm of another individual - they cannot fertilize themselves. So earthworms must still find sexual partners, but both will receive sperm from the other. And in one final twist, earthworm mating is separate from reproduction! After mating, each worm will crawl away carrying the sperm of its partner, but not until later will it actually use those sperm to fertilize its eggs.

2. Look at the repeating rows of bumps along an earthworm’s body. Like most types of animals - including vertebrates, but not roundworms! - earthworms are segmented. Their body plan consists of simple, repeating units, each with a similar system of muscles, blood vessels, nerves, and so on.

3. Earthworms cannot see or hear. They lack even primitive eyes and have no organs to detect the vibrations of sound. They do, of course, have a sense of touch, and they have the chemical senses of taste and smell.

4. Earthworms breathe through their skin. Unlike many animals that exchange oxygen and carbon dioxide across their skin, however, earthworms do have a circulatory system to carry these gases to and from deeper tissues. This property allows them to grow relatively large - in some cases, truly gargantuan. The Giant Gippsland Earthworm of Australia can reach a diameter of an inch and a length of ten feet!

5. Nobody is sure why earthworms come to the surface in the rain, but there are two ideas. They may not be able to get enough oxygen when submerged in water, or they may take advantage of slippery conditions at the surface to migrate to new territory faster than they could by burrowing. Also, at least one species is known only to mate at the surface.

6. Not all worms move by inching, but earthworms do. Roundworms crawl by wriggling back and forth, but earthworms move by sequentially constricting each segment along the length of the body. In addition, they have a set of microscopic spines in each segment that help them dig into the soil as they crawl through.

7. Earthworms produce what is probably the most valuable poop in the world. They actually eat their way through packed soil, depositing behind them rich compost, which they have digested from nonliving organic matter. The result is the biologically crucial aeration and enrichment of the soil. In the judgment of no less a naturalist than Charles Darwin himself, “It may be doubted whether there are any other animals which have played so important a part in the history of the world, as have these lowly creatures.”

8. Earthworms are found almost everywhere, in nearly every environment on Earth - except deserts and the poles. Despite their name, not all species actually live in soil; some are restricted to manure, or muddy sediments, or even certain types of rotting trees. In any case, there is an enormously huge number of individuals: in the richest crop soils, estimates range up to hundreds of earthworms per square yard.

9. Almost all of the earthworms in North America are not native, but were introduced from the Old World. Not only have invasive earthworm species almost completely displaced the former native species, but most North American forests originally had no earthworms at all.

10. Earthworms are extremely sensitive to environmental pollutants. One unfortunate effect of their sensitivity is that pesticides and herbicides often unintentionally eliminate earthworms. Their loss can lead to dramatically lower soil quality. However, one useful effect is that the number of earthworms in a certain area can be used as an indicator of the amount of toxic contamination in that soil.

Here, likewise Worm intuits correctly “Now I know you're just playing around”. At the same time this manipulative provocation is an uncannily accurate model of the bedrock of our general unrest…

- From http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/hometruths/0225kumo.shtml -
Rob Wilson has invented a game which he has called Kumo. It involves telling a lie, or making up a story, and if the person you tell it to believes it and repeats it to another party then they have been ‘Kumoed’.

When Rob's wife Louise was pregnant they were lying in bed one day when Louise remarked..."I feel like a sumo wrestler." Rob insisted that she should be called a Kumo wrestler because he convinced her that was what female sumo wrestlers were called.

At eight months pregnant Louise ran downstairs to check the word in the dictionary for the word Kumo...and Rob convinced her that the word would only appear in a Japanese dictionary. Thus Kumo was born.

" A real Kumo is to get somebody to believe something but that they pass it on and you hear them seeking validation from somebody else." They make up their own urban myths.

Kumo started the topic, didn’t he? Aha!
 
“Mankind is annoyed because the truth is so simple” – Goethe

“A new America is on the drawing boards for the twenty-first century. Various versions are being designed and promoted, and the great assembly of flattered selves is shopping again, shopping for a representation [economic models, revenge movie scripts…] of the world that will distract us most convincingly from the reality of unrepresentable possibility. As the chosen versions, whatever they turn out to be, take hold of the way everything gets represented and therefore, eventually, of the way everything gets constituted, the surreal atmosphere will dissipate and virtuality will fuse with reality again, to create a good-enough semblance of normality. Masses of people who found themselves and their world projected into the existential nothing after 9/11, will find relief from that state of suspense, and great industries will be devoted to providing it, and profiting from that provision. That state is one is which world-transforming questions can be raised, but it is the very opposite of comfortable. It is the state that existentialists and surrealists once prescribed for the sensibility of an avant-garde adjusting to mechanized madness and slaughter in the early twentieth century. We saw that sensibitily democratized, for a while, at the beginning of the twenty-first. But it will not last, for it is vulnerable to unbearable truths. The bubble of self-regarding self-representation that has insulated us for so long from the suffering of millions in a world dominated by our interests and institutions – that bubble will reform around us…” – p. 291, “Mediated” by Thomas De Zengotita

For how long, though? Could conservatives take a few steps left?

“Experts can predict but they can never know the future” – Albert Einstein.

It is all very well to trivialize the masses that crawl subordinately upon this earth, to direct them to ‘get yourselves back to the ghetto’, but beware! The Worm might turn, and in that aboriginal brilliance that sycophantic slags so lack, might very well mesmerize aspiring imperialists with a backward look into pitiful pillars of inanimate salt…

10 facts about worms – from: http://www.allaboutworms.com/10-great-earth-worm-facts

1. Every worm can be both a mom and a dad - but not with itself. Each individual is a “hermaphrodite”, an animal with both male and female sex organs. Each produces both sperm and eggs, but each worm’s eggs must be fertilized by the sperm of another individual - they cannot fertilize themselves. So earthworms must still find sexual partners, but both will receive sperm from the other. And in one final twist, earthworm mating is separate from reproduction! After mating, each worm will crawl away carrying the sperm of its partner, but not until later will it actually use those sperm to fertilize its eggs.

2. Look at the repeating rows of bumps along an earthworm’s body. Like most types of animals - including vertebrates, but not roundworms! - earthworms are segmented. Their body plan consists of simple, repeating units, each with a similar system of muscles, blood vessels, nerves, and so on.

3. Earthworms cannot see or hear. They lack even primitive eyes and have no organs to detect the vibrations of sound. They do, of course, have a sense of touch, and they have the chemical senses of taste and smell.

4. Earthworms breathe through their skin. Unlike many animals that exchange oxygen and carbon dioxide across their skin, however, earthworms do have a circulatory system to carry these gases to and from deeper tissues. This property allows them to grow relatively large - in some cases, truly gargantuan. The Giant Gippsland Earthworm of Australia can reach a diameter of an inch and a length of ten feet!

5. Nobody is sure why earthworms come to the surface in the rain, but there are two ideas. They may not be able to get enough oxygen when submerged in water, or they may take advantage of slippery conditions at the surface to migrate to new territory faster than they could by burrowing. Also, at least one species is known only to mate at the surface.

6. Not all worms move by inching, but earthworms do. Roundworms crawl by wriggling back and forth, but earthworms move by sequentially constricting each segment along the length of the body. In addition, they have a set of microscopic spines in each segment that help them dig into the soil as they crawl through.

7. Earthworms produce what is probably the most valuable poop in the world. They actually eat their way through packed soil, depositing behind them rich compost, which they have digested from nonliving organic matter. The result is the biologically crucial aeration and enrichment of the soil. In the judgment of no less a naturalist than Charles Darwin himself, “It may be doubted whether there are any other animals which have played so important a part in the history of the world, as have these lowly creatures.”

8. Earthworms are found almost everywhere, in nearly every environment on Earth - except deserts and the poles. Despite their name, not all species actually live in soil; some are restricted to manure, or muddy sediments, or even certain types of rotting trees. In any case, there is an enormously huge number of individuals: in the richest crop soils, estimates range up to hundreds of earthworms per square yard.

9. Almost all of the earthworms in North America are not native, but were introduced from the Old World. Not only have invasive earthworm species almost completely displaced the former native species, but most North American forests originally had no earthworms at all.

10. Earthworms are extremely sensitive to environmental pollutants. One unfortunate effect of their sensitivity is that pesticides and herbicides often unintentionally eliminate earthworms. Their loss can lead to dramatically lower soil quality. However, one useful effect is that the number of earthworms in a certain area can be used as an indicator of the amount of toxic contamination in that soil.

Here, likewise Worm intuits correctly “Now I know you're just playing around”. At the same time this manipulative provocation is an uncannily accurate model of the bedrock of our general unrest…

- From http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/hometruths/0225kumo.shtml -
Rob Wilson has invented a game which he has called Kumo. It involves telling a lie, or making up a story, and if the person you tell it to believes it and repeats it to another party then they have been ‘Kumoed’.

When Rob's wife Louise was pregnant they were lying in bed one day when Louise remarked..."I feel like a sumo wrestler." Rob insisted that she should be called a Kumo wrestler because he convinced her that was what female sumo wrestlers were called.

At eight months pregnant Louise ran downstairs to check the word in the dictionary for the word Kumo...and Rob convinced her that the word would only appear in a Japanese dictionary. Thus Kumo was born.

" A real Kumo is to get somebody to believe something but that they pass it on and you hear them seeking validation from somebody else." They make up their own urban myths.

Kumo started the topic, didn’t he? Aha!


I really enjoyed this, very witty! Any chance are you a fan of Jello Biafra?
Kumo in Nihongo can mean either Cloud or Spider. I was a big Spider-Man fan as a kid and still am I guess, the word for man in Nihongo is Otoko, it rolls of the tounge quite nicely... Kumo_Otoko... however several Yamato Nihonjin friends said it kinda sounds creepy, so I am just Kumo these days... Thanks again for your very witty comments!
That BBC link was really interesting too, I may have to rethink my handle once again... :(

Kumo
 
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I am a political conservative and this has not at all hampered my level of Moz-Enjoyment.
 
Fair Enough... I will take you at your word.

Yeah, I did chat with his gardener I asked if moz was home, he told me about the fan kicking his car, he said Morrissey gave him a CD but he didn't like it. I asked how big the property was in the back, he said not very big at all. He said that Moz had a lot of trash bags back there, he thought he was lazy and didn't like to take the trash out to the curb and it was one of the jobs the gardner had to do for him. He also told me I should have came the prior week because Moz was outside nitpicking about a bunch of stuff and would have been a good time to catch him. After that I came back one more time and saw his dented fender. I thought it was odd he didn't park in the garage, guess he is kinda lazy. Anyway while I was waiting, one of the neighbors called the cops and they asked me to move along. So I gave up on the idea of trying to meet him at home. I was iffy about it the idea until I saw some other fans had done it with success and he seemed not to mind. I think the fan kicking his car changed his feelings about it. Anyway, I gave up on the idea. Now he doesn't live in LA it might be much eaiser to meet him on more neutral ground.

The only other celeb. I met at their house was David Bowie. Who was super cool about it. He asked if I could help him carry some bags to the car, I said sure! I has a few things for him to sign and he said "that's it? You should have brought the whole collection!" At the end he said, I don't care how you found out I live here, but please don't tell anyone else. I met him 2 other times just out of dumb luck. Once in a parking lot and once at Tower Records on Sunset. I also met him at sound check at Dodger Stadium when he did his "Greatest Hits" tour I want to say '89 but can't remember off hand. I had Morrissey sign with a marker that Bowie had previously used and Morrissey insisted on keeping it. It was kinda nice to know that even in '91 he could still get star struck.

Ya know, there just wasn't much for someone under 21 to do in LA. So we would find celebs. and get autographs and photos. God, I wish I had a better camera back then! You wouldn't believe how many rolls of shots got ruined.

Cheers,

Kumo

i don't know the legal definition of stalking, but repeatedly going to someone's house and waiting for them, checking out their property, asking a gardener for information, and hanging around until the cops come around...well that sounds like stalking.

you are posting more outrageous stories, now dragging David Bowie. i can't prove they are not true...but come on.

But ok Kumo, i won't give you a hard time about it. I recommend you just dismiss me when i don't take all this seriously. You seem to have witnessed A LOT of stuff dealing with Morrissey, and hear a lot of stories from people close to him (even his gardener). are you sure you weren't a former lover of his yourself?

Ok ok...i've said enough. i'll be nice for now on. people are free to choose what to believe. But i am free to recommend others not to take you seriously at all. fair enough? afterall, this is an anonymous forum and anyone can post elaborate crazy stories. :rolleyes: I am just doing my duty to remind people of this.

This is the end. carry on.
 
i don't know the legal definition of stalking, but repeatedly going to someone's house and waiting for them, checking out their property, asking a gardener for information, and hanging around until the cops come around...well that sounds like stalking.

you are posting more outrageous stories, now dragging David Bowie. i can't prove they are not true...but come on.

But ok Kumo, i won't give you a hard time about it. I recommend you just dismiss me when i don't take all this seriously. You seem to have witnessed A LOT of stuff dealing with Morrissey, and hear a lot of stories from people close to him (even his gardener). are you sure you weren't a former lover of his yourself?

Ok ok...i've said enough. i'll be nice for now on. people are free to choose what to believe. But i am free to recommend others not to take you seriously at all. fair enough? afterall, this is an anonymous forum and anyone can post elaborate crazy stories. :rolleyes: I am just doing my duty to remind people of this.

This is the end. carry on.


Tisk tisk, you didn't buy a "Black's Law Dictionary" yet?
I am not going to type the full entry but the key passage is quoted below...
From Black's Law Dictionary 8th ed. 2004
"The person being stalked must reasonably feel harassed, alarmed or distressed about personal safety"

Obviously I am not a stalker, groupie is more like it...

Not a former lover, I think he prefered guys his own age... e.g. the balding guy in the photo...

as for Bowie see attached...

Kumo
 
Tisk tisk, you didn't buy a "Black's Law Dictionary" yet?
I am not going to type the full entry but the key passage is quoted below...
From Black's Law Dictionary 8th ed. 2004
"The person being stalked must reasonably feel harassed, alarmed or distressed about personal safety"

Obviously I am not a stalker, groupie is more like it...

Not a former lover, I think he prefered guys his own age... e.g. the balding guy in the photo...

as for Bowie see attached...

Kumo

but morrissey has stated he left LA because he felt harassed by fans waiting for him at his home. well, obviously you are not a risk to his safety like a deranged ex-boyfriend is to his girlfriend. but still, you went to his home, on a residential street.

yeah...i'm sure a lot of people have david bowie autographs? :rolleyes: i could even buy one within 20 minutes if i wanted to..

at least you have good taste in the people you stalked :D

dude, it's just a word, it's not like we really need lawyers involved in disputing what it covers. hundreds of fans have stalked morrissey.
 
Oh dear. Whether economics is a "hard science" or not is something people have debated for a long-ass time, and obviously it can be distinguished from, say, biology. Though it's also not as "soft" as other social sciences. And, contrary to what a commenter here states, there is some observation of the real world, formulatation of theories to explain the real world, and testing of those theories, in the field.
"Some observation," eh? I'm glad that's all cleared up now.

Here is, I think, a pretty fair analogy summarizing some economists.

Imagine a box. On the inside of that box, there are very nice and neat paintings of a landscape. Place that box over the head of an economist. The economist will be able to perfectly and articulately describe the landscape he sees on the inside of that box, right down to the honey bee flying toward a wild flower way off in the distance.

Now remove that box from the economist's head. The economist is blinded by the light and cannot accurately describe anything around him. The economist tells you to just shut up and accept his description of the landscape painting inside the box as reality because the economist has a PhD. from Stanford.

In short, economists are quite good at telling everybody around them what their models say about XYZ. But they are describing their models, not the earth around them.
More importantly to highlight the idiocy on display in this thread: When confronted with someone telling us that economists from the University of Chicago (which I believe has won more Nobel prizes in the field than any other institution, amongst them a couple of the most towering minds of the past 100 years) are irrational and barely in touch with reality because the Unversity of Chicago is a "cold and unforgiving place surrounded by ininviting neighborhoods" -- well there you can be sure you have a monumental fool talking out of his butthole.

Somehow this person can remember he met an economist from the Univ. of Chicago, yet he can't tell us the name of this economist who was so loony tunes he couldn't pass himself off as even semi-rational in normal company. Apparently there's something about the economists at that institution which the commenter resents, but he should read what Milton Friedman said about Keynes, while referring to him as a brilliant thinker: "In every discipline, progress comes from people who make hypotheses, most of which turn out to be wrong, but all of which ultimately point to the right answer."
This specific example is from three economists--each from the University of Chicago--that I worked with in connection with my job. I'm not going to give you their names because, among other reasons: (1) I worked with them in connection with my job and I don't think I should be posting details about my job, this project, and how or why they were retained; (2) It's not fair to actually post their names because they aren't here to defend themselves. That being said, I don't think it's unfair to speak about them an anonymous basis because I'm not doing them any harm. (3) I don't resent the University of Chicago. It is a fine institution and there have been many, many great people who have been associated with it over the years. One of my mentors, in fact, is a graduate of the University of Chicago.
This is as true in economics as in other sciences, and they have uncovered a lot of right answers and are pointing towards more. It's a serious field. It's amusing to me that leftists who tell us (correctly!) that lay people ought to be concerned about global warming (though unproven outside of models), also wanna tell lay people to pay little attention to any overwhelming consensuses amongst economists (even putting "economists" in quotes!), the overwhelming majority of whom reject the anti-capitalist nuttery and ignorance of so many of the folks posting in forums such as this. Such folks are not just pointing out that lots of economists disagree; they want to run from the right answers about which there is little disagreement in the field, and (as we can see in this forum) trumpet the economics theories of, say, Hugo Chavez.

That their views do considerable harm to the poorest of the poor in this world never seems to give them pause.
Yes, of course, economics is a "serious field." But, no, I'm sorry. It's not a science. In the course of their work, economists necessarily make all kinds of value judgments that are informed not by the studious observation of the world, but instead by their politics and values (or the politics and values of their sponsors).

A perfect example of those values and judgments forming the conclusions of the "hard science" of economics can be found in this very thread. From our friend Kumo:

Turned the economy around and kept people form dying at home. For every $1.00 the US spends on the war $5.10 is returned to the US GDP, this is the law of velocity of money. For every 2.7% the GDP grows, unemployment is reduced by 1% Okun's law. This is not economic theory but proven laws. So what do you want a few million dead at home or a few thousand volunteers die at war?

Don't argue with his conclusion that the war in Iraq has been "worth it" (despite the dead, maimed, and displaced on all sides). That conclusion is correct because it is based on the hard science of economics.

Please.
 
It's amusing to me that leftists who tell us (correctly!) that lay people ought to be concerned about global warming (though unproven outside of models). . . .
P.S. As I understand it, the fact of global warming is proven beyond dispute using more than just models. What I think you are referring to is whether global warming is caused by human activity.
 
but morrissey has stated he left LA because he felt harassed by fans waiting for him at his home. well, obviously you are not a risk to his safety like a deranged ex-boyfriend is to his girlfriend. but still, you went to his home, on a residential street.

yeah...i'm sure a lot of people have david bowie autographs? :rolleyes: i could even buy one within 20 minutes if i wanted to..

at least you have good taste in the people you stalked :D

dude, it's just a word, it's not like we really need lawyers involved in disputing what it covers. hundreds of fans have stalked morrissey.

Stalking means criminal intent to do harm... I am as far away from that as can be.

Moz made a nice profit on his place in LA bought for 1.6 mil and in less than 7 years sold it for just under 2 mil... So I would have sold too at the peak of the market.

I never met Morrissey after '91 so obviously I was not in the community of agressive fans that made his life hell. I honestly don't think he got sick of it until that dude kicked his car. Yeah I went to his house it didn't work out and If you heard a fan kicked and dented his car and actually see the dent, you might figure he wouldn't be in the mood to see any fans...so I dropped the idea...

I am sure his neighbor's hated him with all the fans that came by and put up birthday decorations for him every year, etc... So as soon as they saw any car that they didn't know they called the cops. I can't hardly blame them.

As for Bowie, do you really think I didn't meet him? or are you just giving me shit? Dude I met a lot of celebs, it's what I did for fun it was my hobby... Still is to a much more limited extent these days. Christ, I met celebs. at the grocery store without even trying and have them sign the back of my business card. Like I said one of the times I met Bowie was in a parking structure. I had no idea he was there, so I grabbed a note pad from my car and had him sign it. (see attached) Why do you think it's so difficult to meet people, where to you live? Arkansas?

Kumo
 
wow ..you really went to moz's house??? you didnt think that was crossing the line? same with bowie??
 
Stalking means criminal intent to do harm... I am as far away from that as can be.
"Harm" can vary quite a bit depending on the talking statue. "Annoyance" or "harassment" might be sufficient.

I, for one, would never, ever go to someone's house--more than once!--and ask questions about the occupant, his property, etc.

I have no idea whether what you described would meet the definition of "stalking" under then-applicable stalking statutes in California (assuming that there were any back then)>

I know for sure what you described is creepy and depressing.
 
Okay. Now I know you're just playing around. I wanted to get that established one way or another.

I have been Kumoed.

I'd hate to be the source of this verb crossing over into everyday English. "The first known internet Kumo was on a fan site of British singer Morrissey.*"

Google currenly shows five hits for kumoed, the BBC one goinghome posted, and four others unrelated to the word.

* That is of course inaccurate. The grubstreet hacks would surely describe him as a 'miserablist,' former frontman of 80's group The Smiths, famous for morbid lyrics such as "insert standard line here" etc.
 
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"Some observation," eh? I'm glad that's all cleared up now.

Here is, I think, a pretty fair analogy summarizing some economists.

Imagine a box. On the inside of that box, there are very nice and neat paintings of a landscape. Place that box over the head of an economist. The economist will be able to perfectly and articulately describe the landscape he sees on the inside of that box, right down to the honey bee flying toward a wild flower way off in the distance.

Now remove that box from the economist's head. The economist is blinded by the light and cannot accurately describe anything around him. The economist tells you to just shut up and accept his description of the landscape painting inside the box as reality because the economist has a PhD. from Stanford.

Pre Milton Friedman I would say you are correct. What you describe is Plato's cave, and it was Friedman that brought the field of economics into the light.

Kumo
 
wow ..you really went to moz's house??? you didnt think that was crossing the line? same with bowie??

I had reservations about going to Moz's house, but like I said, I saw photos and stories from fans who had done it with success and all accounts said moz was pretty cool about it. I also had met the guy quite a few times so I was sure if I did catch him at the house there would be a very high chance he would remember me and a very low chance he would feel a threat.

As for Bowie, it was a bit differnt he didn't live in LA full time he had a condo for when he was in town, it was a big complex there was really no way to get pass the lobby unless you lived there. It was in a comerical area and I waited on the sidewalk to meet him. He doesn't live there anymore so I can tell ya about it. It was called the Grandville, on Cresent Heights in West Hollywood. They built the Virgin Megastore on Sunset right next door to it. When they started construction on it was about the time he moved out.

Moz lived in a much more private area on a dead end road in the Hollywood Hills. So someone standing around stuck out quickly. Like I said I gave up on the idea.

Kumo
 
P.S. As I understand it, the fact of global warming is proven beyond dispute using more than just models. What I think you are referring to is whether global warming is caused by human activity.

If I may further refine your statement, "caused by which human activities?"

The biggest CO2 emissions do not come from cars but from humans and animals exhaling.

Hey, India use a condom and plant a tree!

Kumo
 
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