Why are most (most, not all) British people as.sholes?? Particularly British Moz fans??

Re: Why is it that some people (not all) post anonymous, instead of using their usual alias ?
 
...it's probably all to do with being there first...

...and being able to relate to what Morrissey is singing about. After all, Americans just don't get irony or sarcasm or dry wit.

Which is why I'm amazed (and a little appalled) that Moz has such a huge American following who really don't remember The Smiths or certainly have no grasp of what they were about at all. And the Americans on here needn't be offended - I'm just stating a fact, and not trying to be offensive at all (for once, maybe).

Morrissey's whole appeal is his Englishness - the dour northern wit, his eccentricity.... his music for Godssake.

He is quintessentially English - which is why I'm baffled by ani-Brit sentiment on here at times.

And Britain has lived with Morrissey for nearly 20 years, while his popularity in the states has been for, what, 5 - 6 years?

The majority of the people on this board had never even HEARD of the Smiths before they heard of Morrissey, remember.
 
Re: ...it's probably all to do with being there first...

> ...and being able to relate to what Morrissey is singing about. After all,
> Americans just don't get irony or sarcasm or dry wit.

And you know this how? This is based on an assumption/prejudice which only serves to make you look like an idiot.

> Which is why I'm amazed (and a little appalled) that Moz has such a huge
> American following who really don't remember The Smiths or certainly have
> no grasp of what they were about at all. And the Americans on here needn't
> be offended - I'm just stating a fact, and not trying to be offensive at
> all (for once, maybe).

A fact? Again, you're clueless. The tragedy here is that there's an entire nation of Brits with narrow minds who are full of prejudice. You're, for a lack of better words, a complete dumbass.

> Morrissey's whole appeal is his Englishness - the dour northern wit, his
> eccentricity.... his music for Godssake.

> He is quintessentially English - which is why I'm baffled by ani-Brit
> sentiment on here at times.

Yet you're not at all perplexed by the anti-american sentiment so carelessly thrown around here? Come on, you really don't want to come across as a hypocrite, now do you?

> And Britain has lived with Morrissey for nearly 20 years, while his
> popularity in the states has been for, what, 5 - 6 years?

His popularity was never stellar anywhere...hence the #'s ranked on the billboard charts throughout his career, Smiths and solo. I'm American and have been obsessed with The Smiths/Morrissey since 1985. Does that add up to 5-6 years?

> The majority of the people on this board had never even HEARD of the
> Smiths before they heard of Morrissey, remember.

Where do you get your facts? Do you pull them out of your ass? That would be the safest bet.
 
...a reply, American....

> And you know this how? This is based on an assumption/prejudice which only
> serves to make you look like an idiot.

It's a pretty fair, and widely believed (and personally witnessed) fact that American humour is far more obvious and crass and mainstream than the darker, drier more cutting British humour. So yes, I do know this, generally, I've pretty much travelled the whole of America and experienced this, so yes, my view is an educated one. Been there, seen it, can comment. Fair?

> A fact? Again, you're clueless. The tragedy here is that there's an entire
> nation of Brits with narrow minds who are full of prejudice. You're, for a
> lack of better words, a complete dumbass.

Narrow minded prejudice? Hmm... what were the Afghans attacking America for again?

> Yet you're not at all perplexed by the anti-american sentiment so
> carelessly thrown around here? Come on, you really don't want to come
> across as a hypocrite, now do you?

Absolutely not - and thank you for pointing this out, you're most kind.

> His popularity was never stellar anywhere...hence the #'s ranked on the
> billboard charts throughout his career, Smiths and solo. I'm American and
> have been obsessed with The Smiths/Morrissey since 1985. Does that add up
> to 5-6 years?
The Smiths were absolutely colossal in the UK - I managed a record shop for the majority of their career and can tell you that they may never have had a number one single in the UK, but week after week their singles and albums were the biggest sellers. There were occasions when we'd receive a printout from Gallup detailing the weeks sales and The Smiths would have virtually their entire back catalogue in the top 50.....Each new release sold bucketloads, but because the charts are compiled in the UK mainly from sales in Woolworths, their singles went in considerably lower than they really sold in the majority of retail outlets (namely the hundreds of independent shops and non-Gallup using smaller outlets). And Morrissey's career started off in the same way here.
Of course, if The Smiths were around NOW, they'd undoubtedly be the biggest band in the UK, if not the world. Even in America.

> Where do you get your facts? Do you pull them out of your ass? That would
> be the safest bet.

The facts speak for themselves....read through the posts on this messageboard and you'll be able to gather how many of these people actually knew (or would understand) who the Smiths were when they first heard 'Youre the one for me fatty' or whatever.
Face it - you may have been a fan in 1985 (still over halfway through a very prolific career,it must be said) but VERY few of the people on here were apart from the British fans. And your thread above asking people when they first heard the Smiths - I mean, come on, do you REALLY think people would be honest????!!!! 'When were you first aware of the Smiths?@ "Oh, in about 1992". I don't think so. Do you?
p.s. 'dumbass'.....oh please, I feel like I'm in some horrendous Bill and Ted movie.
 
You know, I've noticed the same thing. Of course it doesn't apply to all British people, but certainly the majority of those posting on this site. I was born in LA but my family is British. I've been to England and everybody there was nice to me despite my being an American. Some of the Brits here are downright mean to us. Many have this, "My shit don't stink" complex as well. I wonder if they realize how arrogant they present themselves.
 
Re: ...a reply, American....

> It's a pretty fair, and widely believed (and personally witnessed) fact
> that American humour is far more obvious and crass and mainstream than the
> darker, drier more cutting British humour.

That's because Americans aren't as dry and boring as Brits. We Americans know how to enjoy life and express ourselves without a vail. You may as well wear a burkha.

>So yes, I do know this,
> generally, I've pretty much travelled the whole of America and experienced
> this, so yes, my view is an educated one. Been there, seen it, can
> comment. Fair?

Is that the best you can do? C- for effort.

> Narrow minded prejudice? Hmm... what were the Afghans attacking America
> for again?

Isn't your gov't fully backing the US in this whole Afghani caper? Hey, I talked to your proctologist today...he's found your head.

> Absolutely not - and thank you for pointing this out, you're most kind.
> The Smiths were absolutely colossal in the UK - I managed a record shop
> for the majority of their career and can tell you that they may never have
> had a number one single in the UK, but week after week their singles and
> albums were the biggest sellers. There were occasions when we'd receive a
> printout from Gallup detailing the weeks sales and The Smiths would have
> virtually their entire back catalogue in the top 50.....Each new release
> sold bucketloads, but because the charts are compiled in the UK mainly
> from sales in Woolworths, their singles went in considerably lower than
> they really sold in the majority of retail outlets (namely the hundreds of
> independent shops and non-Gallup using smaller outlets). And Morrissey's
> career started off in the same way here.
> Of course, if The Smiths were around NOW, they'd undoubtedly be the
> biggest band in the UK, if not the world. Even in America.

> The facts speak for themselves....read through the posts on this
> messageboard and you'll be able to gather how many of these people
> actually knew (or would understand) who the Smiths were when they first
> heard 'Youre the one for me fatty' or whatever.
> Face it - you may have been a fan in 1985 (still over halfway through a
> very prolific career,it must be said) but VERY few of the people on here
> were apart from the British fans. And your thread above asking people when
> they first heard the Smiths - I mean, come on, do you REALLY think people
> would be honest????!!!! 'When were you first aware of the Smiths?@
> "Oh, in about 1992". I don't think so. Do you?
> p.s. 'dumbass'.....oh please, I feel like I'm in some horrendous Bill and
> Ted movie.

I'm not quite sure why you and many of your countrymen here think you're so much better than Morrissey's US fans. You may have been there "from the start", but Morrissey started his career there. That doesn't make you any more of a "fan" then any American fan. It was by chance, circumstance that led you to him first, not because you're more dedicated. Give me a break!

And remember, Morrissey lives HERE now. If he loved merry old England so much, why'd he leave it for the US? He ended up in the place he knew was best for him. God Bless America.
 
in defence of U.S. Hum(o)ur (amongst other things)

If you can watch ANY episode of 'Married with Children' without falling over laughing then I'm not English (born Fairfield hospital, Bury, Greater Manchester, England circa 1962).
South Park another fine example, The Simpsons.
What would going to the flicks be about without Tarrantino (& others)?
We do a good story/comical/historical plot but for Action it's gotta be U.S.

O.k. I realise you are only being defensive of that shyster post, but it was probably just thrown in for adversity & numbty factor, just let it lie.

Don't go to kitchen sink levels, not worth it, no use looking for the spoon to stir. Wtf am I on? Eh up I'm missin' Corrie,
laters
Grim O'Grady
 
>we are not arseholes as you put it. because we are not all fat bast.ards like you fucing lot
 
oh for f*ck's sake

"just wondering" - are you trying to incite violence or something? You can't start a thread like you did, and then expect the Brits on the list to reply saying "yeah, of course, you're right - we *are* arseholes" and leave it at that. Of course they're going to get defensive. You were just trying to start a "spicy" post, and succeeded.

These America good/UK bad, or UK good/America bad discussions have no purpose, other than to inflame the closet rednecks who frequent this board. Lets talk about music, not imperialism.

American and British culture are different, both have their good and bad points .... examples ....

America is responsible for Grandaddy, Pavement, The Simpsons, The Byrds and The Beach Boys, Twin Peaks and Star Wars - all essential parts of my life, but it's also responsible for N'Synch, The Backstreet Boys and Maralyn Manson.

Similarly, the UK produced The Smiths, Suede, Hefner, Spearmint, St. Ettienne, Fawlty Towers and Monty Python. But then again, also Take That, 5ive, Def Leppard and Wham!

I do agree with Russ T, that The Smiths were a very Bristish pehnomenon, and that Morriseey, as a solo-artist, is much more of an American thing. Don't worry about it. You don't extra points the longer you've liked Morrissey/The Smiths. It doesn't matter. All that matters is that you love the music.

And I'm neither British nor American. So I claim immunity. Some of the people who use this board *are* arseholes, others aren't. Country of origin has nothing to do with it.

StH
 
Re: ...it's probably all to do with being there first...

Only one question; why ask the question if you are not prepared to listen to the answer?

You don't have to agree with it but it's pretty pointless if you ask for one's opinion to it and then insult them for having it.
 
Re: oh for f*ck's sake

Wonderful, a sane voice finally, amid the playground insults.

> "just wondering" - are you trying to incite violence or
> something? You can't start a thread like you did, and then expect the
> Brits on the list to reply saying "yeah, of course, you're right - we
> *are* arseholes" and leave it at that. Of course they're going to get
> defensive. You were just trying to start a "spicy" post, and
> succeeded.

> These America good/UK bad, or UK good/America bad discussions have no
> purpose, other than to inflame the closet rednecks who frequent this
> board. Lets talk about music, not imperialism.

> American and British culture are different, both have their good and bad
> points .... examples ....

> America is responsible for Grandaddy, Pavement, The Simpsons, The Byrds
> and The Beach Boys, Twin Peaks and Star Wars - all essential parts of my
> life, but it's also responsible for N'Synch, The Backstreet Boys and
> Maralyn Manson.

> Similarly, the UK produced The Smiths, Suede, Hefner, Spearmint, St.
> Ettienne, Fawlty Towers and Monty Python. But then again, also Take That,
> 5ive, Def Leppard and Wham!

> I do agree with Russ T, that The Smiths were a very Bristish pehnomenon,
> and that Morriseey, as a solo-artist, is much more of an American thing.
> Don't worry about it. You don't extra points the longer you've liked
> Morrissey/The Smiths. It doesn't matter. All that matters is that you love
> the music.

> And I'm neither British nor American. So I claim immunity. Some of the
> people who use this board *are* arseholes, others aren't. Country of
> origin has nothing to do with it.

> StH
 
Marvellous

> Wonderful, a sane voice finally, amid the playground insults.
whole heartedly agree, this board is starting to get better.
Long live the board members & not the bored insult members.
just my 2 cents
Grim O'Grady
 
Re: ...it's probably all to do with being there first...

> And Britain has lived with Morrissey for nearly 20 years, while his
> popularity in the states has been for, what, 5 - 6 years?

Well, gee, as they are *from* England it seems rather obvious they'd
have been popular there first. But your theory about
others not being able to "get it" or "relate" is stupid, and if
it were true it would mean that The Smiths were terrible songwriters
who would have been long forgotten by now. Fortunately
they are universal, however useful it may be to delve into
their hometown culture to gain greater insight. Who does *not*
relate to "I am human and I need to be loved"? His "Englishness,"
"dour Northern wit," "eccentricity" - all packaging for songs
that at heart anyone can access on whatever level they choose.
"Loves, hates, passions just like mine."

How does one define "popularity" in America? Compared
to many bands the Smiths were quite popular in America
from the beginning, and certainly by "The Queen is Dead"
had many thousands of listeners. Without any airplay! (Imagine
how many fans they'd have had *with* airplay.)
That they weren't *mainstream* does not mean they were
not popular. If mainstream is your definition of popularity,
then Morrissey has *never* been popular in America, even
when he was selling out arenas in the early '90s.
It's a big, diverse country, and one can be popular
in some pockets while other pockets are oblivious.

The proof of The Smiths' American popularity is that
from the mid-80s on, without interuption,
all of their albums have been in print and
easily available in virtually any American record store
I've ever been into (small towns excluded). Somebody's
been buying the albums, and continuously for almost 20
years.

> The majority of the people on this board had never even HEARD of the
> Smiths before they heard of Morrissey, remember.

In part because you have to be approaching, or actually in, middle age to have been down with The Smiths in the 80s.

But lets say most America fans came in during the solo years. They still
*like* and *relate to* The Smiths' recordings. Whatever they were "all about"
to you, you do not own their music. Your whole line of attack is just a boring cliche. "I was down with them first! They're mine! You're fake fans!"

I don't have much to say about the generalizations on Americans vs.
Brits, except I notice that those talking about such generalizations
tend to do so with a tone of attack and claim of their own superiority.
 
Re: in defence of U.S. Hum(o)ur (amongst other things)

David Letterman may be the king of irony.
 
Re: Maybe it's because Americans are stupid, ugly and fat. Please, what a dumb comment.
 
Re: oh for f*ck's sake

> American and British culture are different, both have their good and bad
> points .... examples ....

> America is responsible for Grandaddy, Pavement, The Simpsons, The Byrds
> and The Beach Boys, Twin Peaks and Star Wars - all essential parts of my
> life, but it's also responsible for N'Synch, The Backstreet Boys and
> Maralyn Manson.

> Similarly, the UK produced The Smiths, Suede, Hefner, Spearmint, St.
> Ettienne, Fawlty Towers and Monty Python. But then again, also Take That,
> 5ive, Def Leppard and Wham!

I don't disagree, but the fact is, they are all playing American music.

> I do agree with Russ T, that The Smiths were a very Bristish pehnomenon,
> and that Morriseey, as a solo-artist, is much more of an American thing.

I wouldn't know, so possibly. Generally speaking I have a slight
preference for the solo years, but I like it all. However, I have less
difficultly relating to most Smiths songs than I do, say, "We'll Let YOu
Know." And whatever "pashernate" or "hulmerist" are referring
to, it's a mystery to me. (I take it Hulmer is a place?) I also
have little understanding of the full meaning of girls with shaved heads wearing
Fred PErry shirts. Why Fred Perry? All that concert backdrop reminded
me of was the Fred PErry shirt I wore to tennis clinics as a 10 year old.
 
American music?

> I don't disagree, but the fact is, they are all playing American music.

? excuse me? I am assuming you're going to come up with some sort of musicological reason about pop/rock being descended from the blues tradtion, or something. But I disagree. Not completely, but you could say that all American music is "English music" because it is explicitly linked to the English language, follows a traditional narrative ballad structure which goes back to Chaucer etc. etc.

Note also the language these bands sing in is called *English*.

Bands like St. Etienne have more in common with, say, French music than American music. English bands like Blur owe more to the tradition of the music hall than, say, Robert Johnson.

As I said earlier, I don't have a stake in this. i'm neither English or American. I just don't understand the statement you made.
 
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