What makes The Smiths and Morrissey stand out from other artists?

[robbbi]

I don't think The Smiths sound like any other band before them. They certainly have stand out songs, no question. Marr's guitaring was said to me influenced by Keith Richards, and The Byrds, etc.

Does anyone think they can claim to be as original as bands like The Who, The Small Faces, The Rolling Stones, etc, even though they came 15-20 years after those groups started?

I can't see any of The Smiths members dressing like previous groups, unlike The Jam who were seriously influenced by The Small Faces and The Kinks, etc. Fashion and musically. Weller has openly admitted he was highly influenced by Stevie Marriott of the Small Faces. Even The Jam's target sign who copied from the 60's. The Smiths dressed like normal people in the street. Morrissey's hair is like James Deans and Elvis', but not quite the same. His quiff is far higher for starters.

Morrissey's music taste. Sandie Shaw, T Rex, Sparks, etc. They sound nothing like The Smiths.

Obviously no bands in the 80's sounded like them. I also don't recall any of the audience continually invading the stage to hug and kiss the lead singer. Certainly not on a regular basis. And with people trying to get to the stage to touch Morrissey's hand, what other artists can claim this type of spiritual ritual among their fans?

Lyrically what The Smiths and Morrissey were all about wasn't exactly copied. Morrissey's lyrical content was probably more Oscar Wilde influenced than other music artists. And of course he had his own thoughts for good measure.

 

[Kewpie]

FYI, I'd suggest to read our lovely Paulc's thread

 

[robbbi]

FYI, I'd suggest to read our lovely Paulc's thread

That tread doesn't awnser my questions above. That thread is mainly on songs only.

 

[Worm]

That tread doesn't awnser my questions above. That thread is mainly on songs only.

Are you looking for answers? Any questions you posed above seem strictly rhetorical to me.

The Smiths were original enough. No band is completely sui generis. The Stones, for example, whom you mentioned above, started off as a blues cover band, more or less. So did The Beatles. Everyone's copying someone, to some extent. The Smiths less than other bands.

 

[floodzonex]

One of the most original sounding and gifted guitarists ever

An interesting frontman

A timeless sound

 

[ellay mort]

there are many things one could list.


i think the smiths have a very strong, unique aesthetic.

they create a specific world of their own, and allow you enter it, if you understand it enough to do so. it's a world of cover sleeves that reflect back images of it's outsider audience, themes of nostalgia, songs of desperation, defiance, humor, and beauty. as a body of work, their aesthetic is completely cohesive, and solid, and in many ways unique to morrissey and johnny marr's own minds.

i think in having full creative control of their band from the start they were able to create such a focused body of work, because everything that came out of them was strictly them in some form or another, and not watered down or altered to fit the musical environment or trends of the time. to me they don't sound like an 80s band. this is probably partly why. nobody was throwing trendy earmarks of the time in.

not to mention, singing about things as unglamorous as being unloved and celibate, impotency, unemployment, depression, etc in a way that makes it sound heroic and very chic indeed.

 

[Worm]

everything that came out of them was strictly them in some form or another, and not watered down or altered to fit the musical environment or trends of the time. to me they don't sound like an 80s band. this is probably partly why. nobody was throwing trendy earmarks of the time in.

not to mention, singing about things as unglamorous as being unloved and celibate, impotency, unemployment, depression, etc in a way that makes it sound heroic and very chic indeed.

Excellent post.

I found the bits I quoted above interesting because you are praising The Smiths for not being like other bands of the mid-Eighties. Although you loved the music and the visual aesthetics of The Smiths, part of their greatness rested in what they weren't: not watered down, no trendy earmarks, and themes that were unusual, even outlandish in the Thatcher/Reagan realms of the UK and US.

In other words, you can't judge The Smiths in a vacuum.

Not to push the thread in another direction but, since we would all like to touch tangentially on the present, I want to add that to do Years of Refusal justice we have to consider it a part of its time and place, too, and not in a vacuum. We do the latter when we try and compare it to Vauxhall and I and other albums, which in my opinion is a mistake. Years of Refusal is the absolute best album for Morrissey to release in 2009. It gains immense power from the striking contrast between it and the rest of the world, just as The Smiths did, albeit in very different ways.

By the same token, for all its ills (namely the production, which was derided at the time in some quarters, if less brutally than later), the early singles and The Smiths must be considered as artifacts belonging to 1984. In that light a lot of those problems can be overlooked.

 

[Mclenarr]

One key thing in mozzer's writing was the introduction of humour after the early stuff. Unless you count Nowhere fast there wasn't any humour until QID and then there was loads of tragi-com. E&tB and U2 missed that trick...by f***in' miles!!

 

[JulieDurham]

Not to push the thread in another direction but, since we would all like to touch tangentially on the present, I want to add that to do Years of Refusal justice we have to consider it a part of its time and place, too, and not in a vacuum. We do the latter when we try and compare it to Vauxhall and I and other albums, which in my opinion is a mistake. Years of Refusal is the absolute best album for Morrissey to release in 2009. It gains immense power from the striking contrast between it and the rest of the world, just as The Smiths did, albeit in very different ways.

By the same token, for all its ills (namely the production, which was derided at the time in some quarters, if less brutally than later), the early singles and The Smiths must be considered as artifacts belonging to 1984. In that light a lot of those problems can be overlooked.

I completly agree. I'm fed up with "it was better before".

 

[someofusisturningnasty]

By not conforming to the masses.

 

[Interesting Thug]

One key thing in mozzer's writing was the introduction of humour after the early stuff. Unless you count Nowhere fast there wasn't any humour until QID and then there was loads of tragi-com. E&tB and U2 missed that trick...by f***in' miles!!

No humour before QID??

'I've never had a job because I'm too shy!' has to be one of my favourite moz lines. And the first albums are full of humour and wit!! Miserable Lie, Handsome Devil, What She Said, Girl Afraid - and almost every song to some extent! Alright, it might not be as outwardly absurd as Vicar In A Tutu, Some Girls are Bigger Than Others and TQID but stiiilllll, come on!!!

 

[Mclenarr]

No humour before QID??

'I've never had a job because I'm too shy!' has to be one of my favourite moz lines. And the first albums are full of humour and wit!! Miserable Lie, Handsome Devil, What She Said, Girl Afraid - and almost every song to some extent! Alright, it might not be as outwardly absurd as Vicar In A Tutu, Some Girls are Bigger Than Others and TQID but stiiilllll, come on!!!

Well I dunno? Maybe your'e right but it's just not seemed that way to me, but yeah it could have been more subtle compared to the 'carry on' lyrics in the 2 songs you mentioned.

 

[VacancyForABackscrubber]

Because they were bloody brilliant, end of.

Sometimes it helps to keep things simple

But I agree with what every1s saying

 

[Abrahan]

it was all about the hair.

 

[anon x]

I would say that The Smiths (style /music/lyrics) were heavily influenced by
the Postcard Records posse especially Orange Juice and Aztec Camera.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postcard_Records

The early 80s weren't all Duran Duran/Spandau Ballet as some pop historians make out.
It was a time for great innovation in pop music with so many indie labels:
Cherry Red,Rough Trade ,Factory,Mute etc etc...

 

[anon x]

No humour before QID??

'I've never had a job because I'm too shy!' has to be one of my favourite moz lines. And the first albums are full of humour and wit!!

I think that line was DEADLY serious.

 

[columbula]

I think that line was DEADLY serious.

I agree. In an interview I watched, Morrissey stated that before the Smiths he lived in next-to-poverty because he didn't have the disposition to hold a steady job.

The Smiths are awesome because they had dance beats but only used real instruments, they were nostalgic to old time Britain but still socially aware, they were simplistic in a 60s/Motown-way but still very 80s, and because they open your mind to a higher state of thinking and understanding. Plus Morrissey's voice paired perfectly with the sound and image they took on.

And they're rock n' roll all the way.

 

[robbbi]

f***, "How soon is now" Thats as original as any 60's bands. What else sounds like "what difference does it make". These guys were f***in special.

 

[Sharron Needles]

Just simply the fact that he isn't "any other artist."

 

[Worm]

I would say that The Smiths (style /music/lyrics) were heavily influenced by
the Postcard Records posse especially Orange Juice and Aztec Camera.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postcard_Records

The early 80s weren't all Duran Duran/Spandau Ballet as some pop historians make out.
It was a time for great innovation in pop music with so many indie labels:
Cherry Red,Rough Trade ,Factory,Mute etc etc...

You're right about Orange Juice. Some of the early reviews mentioned them, and a couple of years later Morrissey chose "Felicity" to be played during some radio show or other. The early Eighties were a great time for innovation in general, as you say.

However, I've always trusted John Peel, who explicitly said The Smiths did not have obvious influences. He used the phrase "sprung fully-armored from the ground", actually. I took that to mean he could probably come up with some influences but nothing worth mentioning, and he was probably right (he was, after all, John Peel). I think that's how Orange Juice should be seen-- possibly an influence but too faint to measure.