"To die by his side: How far is too far for Morrissey’s devout fanbase?" - FACT Magazine

To die by his side: How far is too far for Morrissey’s devout fanbase? - FACT Magazine
by April Clare Welsh

A rather interesting article allowing both sides of the argument. Includes contribution from the man who still runs this website for better or worse...

The audiences he has been attracting in Mexico are phenomenal for someone without a record deal but the glory days are long gone for me.

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Related items:

• 'Morrissey, we're through' by Cameron Cook - article at Noisey - Apr. 4, 2017
• TTY: New Morrissey T-shirt - Mar. 15, 2017

 

[Musician]

To answer the question that does NOT cover the story: How far is too far for Morrissey's devout fanbase? For me, as far as he can go.
How far is that? Far. Not that I felt comfortable with things he has said and done. But the T-shirt doesn't.

Only individual answers by each member are possible, not by the devout fanbase as a whole, and they will all differ. Hooray.
The question is vague and not clear so I can answer accordingly.
I am able to understand people who think differently.

As always, the most reasonable and straight response comes from Quandox3. You're right. To some Morrissey already stepped through a line, for some he never will.
For me...i still listen to his music occasionally - mostly older stuff - but something fundamental broke with his comments after the Norwegain shooting (an intelligent person just knows when NOT to say certain things, even if you support a cause), and David Tseng's ban of his gigs (I don't know him personally, but banning people from gigs because they post things you don't like....very immature and pathetic for someone of M's stature). These things showed me somone at completely odds with what he communicates.

 

[Quando quando quando]

As always, the most reasonable and straight response comes from Quandox3. You're right. To some Morrissey already stepped through a line, for some he never will.
For me...i still listen to his music occasionally - mostly older stuff - but something fundamental broke with his comments after the Norwegain shooting (an intelligent person just knows when NOT to say certain things, even if you support a cause), and David Tseng's ban of his gigs (I don't know him personally, but banning people from gigs because they post things you don't like....very immature and pathetic for someone of M's stature). These things showed me somone at completely odds with what he communicates.

Thanks musician.
Your arguments are completely understandable and respectful.
I don't know why exactly but I think I forgave him some of his outrageous statements considering animal treatment by humans cause I know he gets very angry and upset about that and drew comparisons which were shocking. Like he wanted to hit back.
It did him no good and neither the animals cause all attention was drawn to his outrageous remarks.

He has his flaws but I still like his music and for a reason I can't understand myself I can make a distinction between his statements as the popicon and the musician, the singer, the lyricist. The music, the released products, did not change.
In that respect I valued WPINOYB as as good as any other album he released. And his concerts are still great despite the small pool of songs he chooses from for the setlists.

As for banning DavidT, we actually don't know the real reason and even DavidT doesn't know until now as he said.
Apart from the Hateful Online Creche remark and the 3 mental patients remark (or was that Kristeen Young?) he didn't state the reason. Most people here guessed it had to do with the free-speech policy and anonymous posters posting very hateful, disgusting things about Moz. Rumours, vile gossip, that lead to more of the same. Unfortunately, that is the downside of that policy.
His life is opera.

 

[Pogo]

Thanks musician.
Your arguments are completely understandable and respectful.
I don't know why exactly but I think I forgave him some of his outrageous statements considering animal treatment by humans cause I know he gets very angry and upset about that and drew comparisons which were shocking. Like he wanted to hit back.
It did him no good and neither the animals cause all attention was drawn to his outrageous remarks.

He has his flaws but I still like his music and for a reason I can't understand myself I can make a distinction between his statements as the popicon and the musician, the singer, the lyricist. The music, the released products, did not change.
In that respect I valued WPINOYB as as good as any other album he released. And his concerts are still great despite the small pool of songs he chooses from for the setlists.

As for banning DavidT, we actually don't know the real reason and even DavidT doesn't know until now as he said.
Apart from the Hateful Online Creche remark and the 3 mental patients remark (or was that Kristeen Young?) he didn't state the reason. Most people here guessed it had to do with the free-speech policy and anonymous posters posting very hateful, disgusting things about Moz. Rumours, vile gossip, that lead to more of the same. Unfortunately, that is the downside of that policy.
His life is opera.

I'm sure you could think of good things to say about John Wayne Gacy. "Well, he did murder all those young men and bury them under his house but we don't know all the facts. And he made people happy as a clown at children's birthday parties."

 

[Quando quando quando]

I'm sure you could think of good things to say about John Wayne Gacy. "Well, he did murder all those young men and bury them under his house but we don't know all the facts. And he made people happy as a clown at children's birthday parties."

I could if I would want to.
But I don't.
You are doing the same now as Moz.
Making comparisons that are not valid. Well, at least in my view.
The difference is, I make the distinction between the things he said as a very emotional defender of animals and the singer, lyricist, musician who made such great music. That music doesn't change.
You might as well be a very good craftsman at whatever it is you do, except illegal stuff and still that would not change by anything you say.

 

[Pogo]

I could if I would want to.
But I don't.
You are doing the same now as Moz.
Making comparisons that are not valid. Well, at least in my view.
The difference is, I make the distinction between the things he said as a very emotional defender of animals and the singer, lyricist, musician who made such great music. That music doesn't change.
You might as well be a very good craftsman at whatever it is you do, except illegal stuff and still that would not change by anything you say.

What if I'm very good at illegal stuff?

 

[Quando quando quando]

What if I'm very good at illegal stuff?

It depends.
I wouldn't encourage it.
Ultimately, it's up to you.
Strange thing is you could be a very nice person even doing very illegal stuff. But there are moral limits for me.
Doing other people harm.
It's strange though to think of people using their talents and being good at doing illegal stuff, are not using them for more or less legal activities.
Cheers

 

[Famous when dead]

I'd like to interject with something said most respectfully to anyone contributing...
Although back and forths are great - has anybody here EVER changed their own personal viewpoint as a result of a counter argument in the threads?
I truly believe ego, IQ and a host of other factors prevent that type of 'realisation' - hence, Facebook & YouTube et al (and here) is rife with people 'conversating' (to use an awful Americanism) yet ultimately sticking to their own view - doesn't this make a lot of what goes on here futile? No trolling or unpleasantness intended - genuinely interested to know.
FWD.

 

[Anonymous]

"Neoliberals use 'racism' as a cudgel against all who disagree with any of their positions."

– Roland Vincent

"Political correctness is also a great weapon for the witless." - Marcia Mueller

https://armoryoftherevolution.wordpress.com/2017/03/08/condemning-barbaric-traditions-is-not-racist/

Stupid journalist April Clare Welsh talking poop on Mozzer's artistic appreciation of James Baldwin because he's not "black." What a psycho. Michele Kambasha feels "victimized" by Morrissey because he's not politically correct. WTF!

These people apparently don't know what "racism" is. 1966 Neshoba County, Mississippi; now there was some racism:

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.: "I believe the murderers are somewhere around me this moment."
Deputy Sheriff Price: "You damn right; they're right behind you."

Stupid murderers! MEAT IS MURDER.

Frankly, I think the argument the article makes is ridiculous, as is the Baldwin t-shirt controversy in general. It offends people who are determined to treat Language as a form of value branding, where there is no room for ambiguity. Such People will inevitably find Morrissey, whose mode of expression revolves around exactly ambiguity, offensive.

"I wear black on the outside, cause black is how I feel on the inside". Depicted, Baldwin wearing black. So, that's an icon of depression wearing black. Also, it's an icon of black empowerment wearing black. It would be fairly reasonable to claim that Baldwin probably felt black in both senses of the word, and it is bleeding obvious that the t-shirt pays tribute to both. Nevertheless, the argument goes T-shirt says Baldwin=black, black=depressed, depressed=inferior. As if Morrissey, of all People, equated depression with something inferior.