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bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.

Uncleskinny

It's all good
Subscriber
Transgender women ARE women. The sex assigned at birth does not automatically equal the gender of a person. It might help to get some scientific background on the topic before discussing it.



No they are not. There are two sexes. Science fact. Gender is NOT the same as sex. Just because someone identifies as a women does NOT mean they are allowed into women's spaces without those women's consent.

It is NOT OK for people with penises to turn up in women's locker rooms just because they say they are a woman. The other women there would have no idea, and no consent to this.

It is a slow erosion of women's rights to say otherwise, and it is NOT OK.
 

rifke

ladies bear (inquire within)
i dont know where i stand on the trans debate. it's easy to take a stance on paper, but much harder when dealing with real lovely people.

i do know one thing for sure though: i will never be referring to anyone as zee or zir or whatever made up on a whim thing that they decide people need to be calling them. simple solution: i simply wont refer to them at all, and it will be no loss to me.
 
No they are not. There are two sexes. Science fact. Gender is NOT the same as sex. Just because someone identifies as a women does NOT mean they are allowed into women's spaces without those women's consent.

It is NOT OK for people with penises to turn up in women's locker rooms just because they say they are a woman. The other women there would have no idea, and no consent to this.

It is a slow erosion of women's rights to say otherwise, and it is NOT OK.

There are more than two sexes. Intersex people exist.
 

Uncleskinny

It's all good
Subscriber
There are more than two sexes. Intersex people exist.
OK, so how does that alter my point above?

Is it OK for people with penises to enter locker rooms where women are girls are present, and those women and girls have no knowledge or consent to that person entering. Is that OK? Yes or no?

Do you think it's right that people who have no say in the matter should be exposed to situations in which they may feel endangered? Yes or no?
 

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
There are more than two sexes. Intersex people exist.
The intersex argument is so weak, yes, there are some people born this way but its a low number. We say as a rule that most people have five fingers on each hand but some people are born with an extra digit, some people with an extra nipple etc, but these are by and large, biological abnormalities.

In the cases of intersex around 90% of cases still identify as one or the other sex.
 
OK, so how does that alter my point above?

Is it OK for people with penises to enter locker rooms where women are girls are present, and those women and girls have no knowledge or consent to that person entering. Is that OK? Yes or no?

Do you think it's right that people who have no say in the matter should be exposed to situations in which they may feel endangered? Yes or no?

It doesn't alter your "point" (opinion) on locker rooms. But you also stated that there are only two sexes, which is not a scientific fact.

I didn't give my opinion in my initial post nor did I ask for yours. But since you're asking now:

Trans women are not "people who say they are women". Trans women are women who were assigned a different gender at birth based on the externally visible part of their reproductive organs.

These women should be treated like any other woman. Whether or not they have a penis does not matter. A penis does not automatically make one a sex offender.
People should be educated on the subject, the fact that trans people exist needs to be normalised to stop marginalisation and prejudice.

With regards to your second question: No, no one should have to be exposed to situations in which they may feel endangered.

Which is why transphobic narratives about trans women posing a constant threat to cis women is so harmful. Fear mongering is harmful. Transgender people are far more likely to experience sexual violence and harassment at some point in their lives than cis people.

People do not "choose" to be trans for shits and giggles. Or to be able to prey on cis women in locker rooms. It's not a choice. They "have no say in the matter" either. Trans women in particular need to be protected, not demonised and they shouldn't be under general suspicion.
 

Uncleskinny

It's all good
Subscriber
It doesn't alter your "point" (opinion) on locker rooms. But you also stated that there are only two sexes, which is not a scientific fact.

I didn't give my opinion in my initial post nor did I ask for yours. But since you're asking now:

Trans women are not "people who say they are women". Trans women are women who were assigned a different gender at birth based on the externally visible part of their reproductive organs.

These women should be treated like any other woman. Whether or not they have a penis does not matter. A penis does not automatically make one a sex offender.
People should be educated on the subject, the fact that trans people exist needs to be normalised to stop marginalisation and prejudice.

With regards to your second question: No, no one should have to be exposed to situations in which they may feel endangered.

Which is why transphobic narratives about trans women posing a constant threat to cis women is so harmful. Fear mongering is harmful. Transgender people are far more likely to experience sexual violence and harassment at some point in their lives than cis people.

People do not "choose" to be trans for shits and giggles. Or to be able to prey on cis women in locker rooms. It's not a choice. They "have no say in the matter" either. Trans women in particular need to be protected, not demonised and they shouldn't be under general suspicion.
The actual point has whooshed over your head.

Let's say you're right. Let's say someone with a penis who calls themselves a woman goes into a women and girls locker room.

The women and girls in there have no idea whatsoever. So far as they know, the person who just walked in is a man. How are they to know? How could they?

Do you not see how that situation is harmful and distressing to the women and girls in there? Where is their protection?

I have no issue with anyone being who they want to be. I DO have an issue with that decision impacting harmfully on people who couldn't possibly know about that decision.

Can you not see that? Can you not see the erosion of women's rights and safe spaces?
 

Cooley

New Member
Every pic I now post of Moz on Instagram or Twitter is invariably followed by claims of me being a racist, Nazi lover etc. In the end, I gave up. f*** it.
 
The actual point has whooshed over your head.

Let's say you're right. Let's say someone with a penis who calls themselves a woman goes into a women and girls locker room.

The women and girls in there have no idea whatsoever. So far as they know, the person who just walked in is a man. How are they to know? How could they?

Do you not see how that situation is harmful and distressing to the women and girls in there? Where is their protection?

I have no issue with anyone being who they want to be. I DO have an issue with that decision impacting harmfully on people who couldn't possibly know about that decision.

Can you not see that? Can you not see the erosion of women's rights and safe spaces?

As a cis woman, I don't feel like my rights are eroded in any way by trans women entering locker rooms. There are more pressing issues on my mind.

My point about much needed education on the subject seems to have "whooshed" over your head. The sight of a woman with a penis is far less distressing once you've accepted that whether you've got a penis or a vagina is not what defines you as a man or as a woman.

However, I can see that the scenario you describe may cause problems as long as we haven't reached the point where this is generally accepted.

What about trans women's rights though? Should they be forced to change in men's locker rooms? Should that depend on how far they've progressed in their physical transition? Where do you draw the line? Isn't it safer for everyone to look for alternative solutions instead of using the locker room argument to undermine trans rights while pretending to strengthen women's rights like so many transphobes do?
 

Uncleskinny

It's all good
Subscriber
As a cis woman, I don't feel like my rights are eroded in any way by trans women entering locker rooms. There are more pressing issues on my mind.

My point about much needed education on the subject seems to have "whooshed" over your head. The sight of a woman with a penis is far less distressing once you've accepted that whether you've got a penis or a vagina is not what defines you as a man or as a woman.

However, I can see that the scenario you describe may cause problems as long as we haven't reached the point where this is generally accepted.

What about trans women's rights though? Should they be forced to change in men's locker rooms? Should that depend on how far they've progressed in their physical transition? Where do you draw the line? Isn't it safer for everyone to look for alternative solutions instead of using the locker room argument to undermine trans rights while pretending to strengthen women's rights like so many transphobes do?

Well, so long as it's about you then. So long as you're all right. What about those less able to process the situation? So long as YOU'RE ok seeing dicks in a women's locker room.

It is about not allowing situations that cause distress for women who never consented to the conditions leading to that situation. How do you not see this simple, fundamental point?

I don't see how else to say it.
 
S

Sir Darino

Guest
The actual point has whooshed over your head.

Let's say you're right. Let's say someone with a penis who calls themselves a woman goes into a women and girls locker room.

The women and girls in there have no idea whatsoever. So far as they know, the person who just walked in is a man. How are they to know? How could they?

Do you not see how that situation is harmful and distressing to the women and girls in there? Where is their protection?

I have no issue with anyone being who they want to be. I DO have an issue with that decision impacting harmfully on people who couldn't possibly know about that decision.

Can you not see that? Can you not see the erosion of women's rights and safe spaces?
skinny, you know f*** all, just stick to crossword puzzles. :rolleyes:

like you though, I also DO have an issue with a decision impacting harmfully on people..and that was the decision by tseng not to ban you from the forum.
 
S

Sir Darino

Guest
Well, so long as it's about you then. So long as you're all right. What about those less able to process the situation? So long as YOU'RE ok seeing dicks in a women's locker room.

It is about not allowing situations that cause distress for women who never consented to the conditions leading to that situation. How do you not see this simple, fundamental point?

I don't see how else to say it.
Can't you find anything in that thesaurus which might help? o_O

Like on so many occasions, you're losing the argument so resort to aggression & gutter language... there's a word for people like you...

you know the one, where others don't agree with your point so you're gonna trash them... someone who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions...

now what is it??? does it begin with the letter b perhaps?
 
I

Indira Sor

Guest
I see skinny has ran off in complete rage at not being able to bully his point home...and oddly taken the radish with him. Curious. Log on same time, log off same time. what to make of it all??? :unsure:
 

Stephen Hofmann

Well-Known Member
Transgender women ARE women. The sex assigned at birth does not automatically equal the gender of a person. It might help to get some scientific background on the topic before discussing it.




You don't need scientific background to know that a man doesn't have ovaries, a womb or a cervix or a vagina, can't menstruate and can't give birth.........so, no............they aren't "women". Even those that destroy their genitals don't become women.....or men, for that matter. They might have the appearance but that's all it is.
 
S

southpawcomprehensive

Guest
There’s no evidence trans women attack women in toilets etc, it’s just an absurd sicko fantasy that even the people who propagate it don’t believe. Trans women have always used women’s loos anyway
 
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