Nergal of Behemoth on being a Morrissey fan, avoiding politics


Starts at 1:57 talking about how politics should be separate from music. Talks about Morrissey starting at 2:35
 

Comments

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Hmmm ... the institutionally, anti-Semitic, political party and a racist has-been singer? It has all the makings of a prime time comedy. Episode One: Morrissey torn between his inherent Islamaphobia and condescension of the Northern English working class. He couldn't vote labour because Tommy Robinson tokd him not to
What a dilemma.
If you're going to troll, maybe research more. Or don't bother with words at all.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
If you're going to troll, maybe research more. Or don't bother with words at all.
Well said, I think that was skinny - he's clearly been on the sherry this afternoon :squiffy:
All pie-eyed, and bog-eyed, and cross-eyed.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tom Tom Club, is this you?

I was here yesterday posting in the "Songs Morrissey Should Cover" thread. I've been wondering how you have been doing? I was hoping to get your attention with those posts without drawing too much attention. Rather, you got my attention! How have you been? I have been concerned. I have a couple of older posts for you in the "Elvis Slates Morrissey" thread. Actually, the second post is a correction regarding a pastor I mentioned in the post before it. The pastor's name in the former post was incorrect. Both pastors are recommended in either case.

Anyway, what is going on? I did not realize the nature of this thread. I saw the name of the thread in passing but did not think much of it. Now that I am here seeing your response, it got my attention! There is a lot going on here on Morrissey-Solo. I can't say it's all good. Not at all. This is one of many concerns of mine. In fact, your response in this thread reveals the very problem of the world "growing gloriously dark" that I bring up in the "Elvis Slates Morrissey" thread. You have to read the post in order to understand the context of that comment/statement. Yes, it sounds like an oxymoron but it merely reminds us that we, as believers, are truly living on borrowed time. But to see 'darkness' displayed in this fashion here is disheartening. I did not see the video myself but judging from the responses/comments in this thread, they are not favorable. A Satanist? I did not notice that, would you believe. I did not read the title of the video itself. Crazy. I just saw the words 'Behemoth." I figured -- Ah, another death metal guy (from the photo) and that was the extent of my interest. It did not interest me in the least. I do not see why this is here well knowing there is not any redeeming value in anything Satanic. People beg to differ but typical defiance toward God (i.e., those things in complete opposition to God) is expected. I thank the Lord for your standing up. Water off a duck. Smile. It takes courage to do so. Especially in an age of complete compromise. That is, compromise among believers. The lukewarm church. Neither hot nor cold (which leads me to my discussion in the "Elvis Slates Morrissey" thread regarding your and/or my future on this site).

Yes, the Word is sharper than any two-edged sword, Tom Tom Club. Smile. These things won't hold water in light of eternity. But for the time being, the individual behind such 'things' is hard-pressed. There is always opportunity for such individuals to turn their life around (i.e., confess/repent of their sins and turn from their sin to the Lord) while there is still time, but ultimately the decision is theirs and theirs alone. It is a sad scenario but people either choose to accept Christ or choose to reject Christ. There is no middle ground. (Of course, the Lord is still in control and only He knows the heart of the individual -- i.e., regarding salvation, et. al.). In fact, it is ironic but this is the point of the Bob Dylan song (by Willie Nelson) I just posted in the "Songs Morrissey Should Cover" thread. The song, "Gotta Serve Somebody." No one can walk the fence. We can for a while but somewhere along the line we will have to make a choice. A hard choice. Many are called but few are chosen. We can't serve two masters. The insults we bear is nothing. That is, nothing that Christ already accomplished for us at the Cross. Water off a duck, Tom Tom Club. You encouraged me. Hang in there. I will write you further in the "Elvis Slates Morrissey" thread. I don't think you have read the more recent post there yet but I will leave it at that and await your response. We will continue there, yes? At least for now. Hey, you take care of yourself now, Tom Tom Club. God bless you. Until then, we will meet in the "Elvis-Morrissey" thread, Godwilling. -- Me
I am not the person you think I am. “Tom-Tom Club”? Matters not though. Brothers and sisters in Christ come together. The Word, as spread by our legions, can only proliferate. The Lord works in mysterious ways, bringing us all together. Praise him for bringing our friend, Morrissey, back into the fold. A man with his ethical stature, selflessness and charity can only be a boon to the pursuit of love, understanding and righteousness. A soldier to stand with us. A man, of unbending character, who’s found his way back to our Maker. A man who will give his all to lead us through these harsh, divisive times, back home to the bosom of love.

Rejoice in his name! God is good. :)
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Well said, I think that was skinny - he's clearly been on the sherry this afternoon :squiffy:
All pie-eyed, and bog-eyed, and cross-eyed.
Who ever it is will be severely disappointed IMO. The left will be busy imploding, most of his biggest enemies have beclowned themselves over Corbyn & the North has gone Tory. Unless Morrissey is determined to self-destruct (& he might be) he should make a comeback. Certainly his legacy is safe. He's not a protest singer & the country has turned out to be as complicated as he is.
 

The Truth

about Ruth
It’s as though the work of art and it’s existence is dependent on the person or persons experiencing it! And therefore, at least to the individual,
the work of art can be subject to change, for the work of art and the experience of the work of art, can be said to be one and the same.
I feel like I am posting too much in this thread and should just shut up ("insightful!") but one more.
If we both view the same work of art but have different perceptions of it those perceptions belong to us alone, and those perceptions may change. But the work of art will not change. The work of art and the experience of the work of art are not one and the same. I actually had to think about this a lot years ago and wrote a paper about it in an art history class. The question was whether or not the "idea" behind the work of art needs to be communicated to the viewer in order for the work to succeed. I have to say that it is not necessary for the viewer/audience to "understand" the work of art in order for it to be successful. If the idea behind a work of art or a song could be communicated in words there would be no reason for the work of art to exist.
We can say what "Late Night, Maudlin Street," is "about" but we can't communicate what it's really about, because an experience is created when you hear it. No matter how well someone described the music, the way the vocals sound, the way they felt when they heard the song, the experience of hearing it can't be communicated except by hearing it.
So you want to say, "yes, that proves my point." But it doesn't because everyone is going to experience it a different way and as far as I am aware the way you experience it can't affect the way I experience it.
And even if the song was never released or heard by anyone it would still exist. It's even possible that the song would exist even if it hadn't been recorded or even written.

You're saying that art doesn't exist if no one sees it, but I'm saying that some art exists even if the artist dies before creating it. I believe that the following is "the truth."
Platonic idealism usually refers to Plato's theory of forms or doctrine of ideas. It holds that only ideas encapsulate the true and essential nature of things, in a way that the physical form cannot.
It's another way to say that ideas exist and preexist the physical manifestation of that idea, and that therefore an idea can exist even if it is never made manifest, and possibly even if it is never "thought of."

Whether that is true or not the following is true. "Late Night, Maudlin Street" is an expression of a high form of communication and "one can't help but feel that the Chinese are a subspecies," is not. Even if you agree with it, even if you can say "well, you have to look at the context in which he said it," it's not art. It's an opinion, and even if you feel it's correct it's a lower form of communication than his songs. And it's completely valid and okay to enjoy the songs and avoid, ignore, or even rail against the opinions.
 
V

vegan cro spirit 888

Guest
I feel like I am posting too much in this thread and should just shut up ("insightful!") but one more.
If we both view the same work of art but have different perceptions of it those perceptions belong to us alone, and those perceptions may change. But the work of art will not change. The work of art and the experience of the work of art are not one and the same. I actually had to think about this a lot years ago and wrote a paper about it in an art history class. The question was whether or not the "idea" behind the work of art needs to be communicated to the viewer in order for the work to succeed. I have to say that it is not necessary for the viewer/audience to "understand" the work of art in order for it to be successful. If the idea behind a work of art or a song could be communicated in words there would be no reason for the work of art to exist.
We can say what "Late Night, Maudlin Street," is "about" but we can't communicate what it's really about, because an experience is created when you hear it. No matter how well someone described the music, the way the vocals sound, the way they felt when they heard the song, the experience of hearing it can't be communicated except by hearing it.
So you want to say, "yes, that proves my point." But it doesn't because everyone is going to experience it a different way and as far as I am aware the way you experience it can't affect the way I experience it.
And even if the song was never released or heard by anyone it would still exist. It's even possible that the song would exist even if it hadn't been recorded or even written.

You're saying that art doesn't exist if no one sees it, but I'm saying that some art exists even if the artist dies before creating it. I believe that the following is "the truth."
Platonic idealism usually refers to Plato's theory of forms or doctrine of ideas. It holds that only ideas encapsulate the true and essential nature of things, in a way that the physical form cannot.
It's another way to say that ideas exist and preexist the physical manifestation of that idea, and that therefore an idea can exist even if it is never made manifest, and possibly even if it is never "thought of."

Whether that is true or not the following is true. "Late Night, Maudlin Street" is an expression of a high form of communication and "one can't help but feel that the Chinese are a subspecies," is not. Even if you agree with it, even if you can say "well, you have to look at the context in which he said it," it's not art. It's an opinion, and even if you feel it's correct it's a lower form of communication than his songs. And it's completely valid and okay to enjoy the songs and avoid, ignore, or even rail against the opinions.
:rolleyes:

o_O

how can Late Night Maudlin Street be a form of the highest communication when you just said we cant
"CANT REALLY COMMUNICATE" about it?doh: how can it be 'high communication' when it cant even communicate.:mad:

Platos ideas were geometric forms FFS everybody knows that. its not yokoism or satanism.
Plato would get a condition if you played him some of Yoko screechin.:lbf:


I guess Yoko was just lucky to grab every single floating idea out of the ozone. not one single decent song.:lbf:
maybe :handpointright::guardsman::handpointleft: has been using his wig to snatch ALL the Le Pew music of the air in the atmosphere.

Psycho babble Fails.:thumbsdown:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It's nice that you would think that.

On the bright side, my social media is aflame with Corbinistas denouncing the 'Blue Labour' movement as National Socialism, which they now accept is left-wing economic policies combined with conservative social values. So Morrissey has been vindicated on another point.
What a prick you are. A desperate, attention seeking prick.
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><>
I feel like I am posting too much in this thread and should just shut up ("insightful!") but one more.
If we both view the same work of art but have different perceptions of it those perceptions belong to us alone, and those perceptions may change. But the work of art will not change. The work of art and the experience of the work of art are not one and the same. I actually had to think about this a lot years ago and wrote a paper about it in an art history class. The question was whether or not the "idea" behind the work of art needs to be communicated to the viewer in order for the work to succeed. I have to say that it is not necessary for the viewer/audience to "understand" the work of art in order for it to be successful. If the idea behind a work of art or a song could be communicated in words there would be no reason for the work of art to exist.
We can say what "Late Night, Maudlin Street," is "about" but we can't communicate what it's really about, because an experience is created when you hear it. No matter how well someone described the music, the way the vocals sound, the way they felt when they heard the song, the experience of hearing it can't be communicated except by hearing it.
So you want to say, "yes, that proves my point." But it doesn't because everyone is going to experience it a different way and as far as I am aware the way you experience it can't affect the way I experience it.
And even if the song was never released or heard by anyone it would still exist. It's even possible that the song would exist even if it hadn't been recorded or even written.

You're saying that art doesn't exist if no one sees it, but I'm saying that some art exists even if the artist dies before creating it. I believe that the following is "the truth."
Platonic idealism usually refers to Plato's theory of forms or doctrine of ideas. It holds that only ideas encapsulate the true and essential nature of things, in a way that the physical form cannot.
It's another way to say that ideas exist and preexist the physical manifestation of that idea, and that therefore an idea can exist even if it is never made manifest, and possibly even if it is never "thought of."

Whether that is true or not the following is true. "Late Night, Maudlin Street" is an expression of a high form of communication and "one can't help but feel that the Chinese are a subspecies," is not. Even if you agree with it, even if you can say "well, you have to look at the context in which he said it," it's not art. It's an opinion, and even if you feel it's correct it's a lower form of communication than his songs. And it's completely valid and okay to enjoy the songs and avoid, ignore, or even rail against the opinions.
Since this seems to be your last post on this subject. I’ll just say I agree with some of the things you said above, and won’t attempt to break it down and comment about it. But, I will say, I hope there will come a day when more people realize that the work of art and the experience of the work of art are one and the same.

I mean, Awareness/Consciousness may be all that there is. Actually, I have no proof to tell me otherwise.


:lbf: :paranoid: :)
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
What do you think of George Galloway's new Workers Party of Britain?
Well, everything George does ends up becoming a paranoid sectarian 'besieged' tiny cult. But interesting that he's selling it as British & anti-identity politics.
 

The Truth

about Ruth
Since this seems to be your last post on this subject. I’ll just say I agree with some of the things you said above, and won’t attempt to break it down and comment about it. But, I will say, I hope there will come a day when more people realize that the work of art and the experience of the work of art are one and the same.

I mean, Awareness/Consciousness may be all that there is. Actually, I have no proof to tell me otherwise.


:lbf: :paranoid: :)
No, I'm really trying to quit but I keep thinking that you'll have that lightbulb moment and agree that I am right. lol
The art exists whether you are aware of it or not. This idea that everyone's experience with a particular work of art is the same thing as the work of art just makes no sense. I have "works of art" that I have created, and some of them have never been seen or heard by anyone, but they still exist.
Are you saying that my awareness of their existence is what makes them exist? Are we talking about Schrodinger's cat? Well what about the Akashic records?
Trust me that there are things we are not aware of which still exist.
And what about John Cage 4'33"? Now that is something that IS about the experience, and that particular work does change every time. You could say that it is "the idea" and that in this case "the idea" is the work but that's not really the case because it's a specific work that is designed to be about creating an experience. While you can read the idea of what it is and sort of get it, you can't really experience it without experiencing it.
But that is a singular piece of work. There are probably other works that are similar. Looking to Yoko again ...

I think it's great that she decided to "think" this in the summer. Anyway, something like this is not so much a "work of art" as it is a direction or an instruction for a work of art.
In these cases, you would be correct. But if you think that some previously unknown painting only becomes a work of art once it has an audience to experience it, I strongly disagree.
 

Pippistrella

Well-Known Member
Well, everything George does ends up becoming a paranoid sectarian 'besieged' tiny cult. But interesting that he's selling it as British & anti-identity politics.
It's also anti-immigration and pro-hard Brexit. This is refreshing from the left.

We're living in interesting times.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
It's also anti-immigration and pro-hard Brexit. This is refreshing from the left.

We're living in interesting times.
It was the way the wind was blowing, but everyone feared the power of woke social media, until yesterday. Hopefully it will also make some of the worst shock jock tactics of the right redundant. I don't mind limited immigration, or talking about real problems within & between cultures, but racism is disgusting.
 

Pippistrella

Well-Known Member
It was the way the wind was blowing, but everyone feared the power of woke social media, until yesterday. Hopefully it will also make some of the worst shock jock tactics of the right redundant. I don't mind limited immigration, or talking about real problems within & between cultures, but racism is disgusting.
The people who push for mass immigration and open borders have for years been conflating any opposition to it with racism, which we all know is a ploy. Mass immigration has no benefits to ordinary people. It destroys social cohesion and trust and creates alienation as well as making people poorer by keeping wages low and work harder to find. Tony Blair and Barbara Roche should be dragged to the gallows for all their PR talk of 'vibrancy' and 'diversity' when they had ulterior motives that had nothing to do with benevolence.

So glad that Galloway has said that the left should naturally oppose mass immigration, as it's something I've known for a long time.

The wokeness and identity politics adopted by the left now needs to go. It's been shocking but interesting over the last few days how so many elements of the Labour Party are still so clueless to this fact.

The only group in love with wokeness are the young tantrumming green-haired brats who were marching with their Boris is a Cunt and Migrants Welcome placards the other night. Overall that's quite a tiny group.

I'm now looking forward to us breaking our chains from the most undemocratic and capitalist superstructure in the world, the EU. I hope every other European country follows us into restoring their sovereignty.
 
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Nerak

Reverse Ferret
The people who push for mass immigration and open borders have for years been conflating any opposition to it with racism, which we all know is a ploy. Mass immigration has no benefits to ordinary people. It destroys social cohesion and trust and creates alienation as well as making people poorer by keeping wages low and work harder to find. Tony Blair and Barbara Roche should be dragged to the gallows for all their PR talk of 'vibrancy' and 'diversity' when they had ulterior motives that had nothing to do with benevolence.

So glad that Galloway has said that the left should naturally oppose mass immigration, as it's something I've known for a long time.

The wokeness and identity politics adopted by the left now needs to go. It's been shocking but interesting over the last few days how so many elements of the Labour Party are still so clueless to this fact.

The only group in love with wokeness are the young tantrumming green-haired brats who were marching with their Boris is a Cunt and Migrants Welcome placards the other night. Overall that's quite a tiny group.

I'm now looking forward to us breaking our chains from the most undemocratic and capitalist superstructure in the world, the EU. I hope every other European country follows us into restoring their sovereignty.
I still love the EU, racism is an issue & I don't think anyone really expected open borders to cause so much trouble, but obviously it has.

I'll be happy to see woke die though. And (as a diehard Morrissey fan) it has been amusing seeing how many people are tweeting variations of 'f*** The Guardian' into my timeline. I even saw a few 'f*** off Billy Bragg' s.
 
V

vegan cro spirit 888

Guest
No, I'm really trying to quit but I keep thinking that you'll have that lightbulb moment and agree that I am right. lol
The art exists whether you are aware of it or not. This idea that everyone's experience with a particular work of art is the same thing as the work of art just makes no sense. I have "works of art" that I have created, and some of them have never been seen or heard by anyone, but they still exist.
Are you saying that my awareness of their existence is what makes them exist? Are we talking about Schrodinger's cat? Well what about the Akashic records?
Trust me that there are things we are not aware of which still exist.
And what about John Cage 4'33"? Now that is something that IS about the experience, and that particular work does change every time. You could say that it is "the idea" and that in this case "the idea" is the work but that's not really the case because it's a specific work that is designed to be about creating an experience. While you can read the idea of what it is and sort of get it, you can't really experience it without experiencing it.
But that is a singular piece of work. There are probably other works that are similar. Looking to Yoko again ...

I think it's great that she decided to "think" this in the summer. Anyway, something like this is not so much a "work of art" as it is a direction or an instruction for a work of art.
In these cases, you would be correct. But if you think that some previously unknown painting only becomes a work of art once it has an audience to experience it, I strongly disagree.
:straightface:

TRUST you that are things we are not aware that exist in the Akashic records??????o_O maybe partaking
of the funny little ashkenazi :smoking: ???????
:mask:

i thought i recognized this piece:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I still love the EU, racism is an issue & I don't think anyone really expected open borders to cause so much trouble, but obviously it has.

I'll be happy to see woke die though. And (as a diehard Morrissey fan) it has been amusing seeing how many people are tweeting variations of 'f*** The Guardian' into my timeline. I even saw a few 'f*** off Billy Bragg' s.
Release yourselves of the negativity. Embrace the Holy Spirit.

Surely, the word of the Lord’s son shall lead those of anger, ill-faith and boundless abomination toward love and acceptance - in these times of ill-repute.

Bless Morrissey. Praise be to God. Praise be to Jesus. Praise be to those who carry the torch of righteousness, so that the lost and weary may follow unto the gates of salvation!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I still love the EU, racism is an issue & I don't think anyone really expected open borders to cause so much trouble, but obviously it has.

I'll be happy to see woke die though. And (as a diehard Morrissey fan) it has been amusing seeing how many people are tweeting variations of 'f*** The Guardian' into my timeline. I even saw a few 'f*** off Billy Bragg' s.
Oh you're back and how I wish you would post a recording of your reply so we could hear that scots accent. Swedish tv news had a report from Scotland after the election and how some not all want to be free and independent.

Hairy legs and big f***ing kegs and miserable streets and dirty old houses.

Scotland found some oil Norway is like LOL
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Release yourselves of the negativity. Embrace the Holy Spirit.

Surely, the word of the Lord’s son shall lead those of anger, ill-faith and boundless abomination toward love and acceptance - in these times of ill-repute.

Bless Morrissey. Praise be to God. Praise be to Jesus. Praise be to those who carry the torch of righteousness, so that the lost and weary may follow unto the gates of salvation!
Coals to Newcastle.
 
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