Morrissey's impact on world culture

[dailyalice]

I got this question from a high school employee of mine:

I could really use your Morrissey expertise, if you dont mind me asking.. but, I'm Doing a Report For School, for my history class. it's on how Music movements and people affected history and World Culture. so i was wondering if you would share your knowledge and tell me about how Morrissey and The Smiths took a stand and impacted the world. Thank you soo much

First I fell over laughing with glee, then wrote back about vegetarianism and animal rights, then a bit about bucking the music industry.

I'd welcome any more insights that I can pass along.

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

I think the Smiths offered a succinct critique of the Thatcherism/Reaganism of the 80s
one with such resonance that it has gradually been absorbed into the cultural history, enough so that I am fairly certain that their music will be cited by future historians when referencing that time period
now, as for Morrissey in particular, well, he is one of the few truly original post post modern icons
and that says it all really

 

[dailyalice]

I think the Smiths offered a succinct critique of the Thatcherism/Reaganism of the 80s
one with such resonance that it has gradually been absorbed into the cultural history, enough so that I am fairly certain that their music will be cited by future historians when referencing that time period
now, as for Morrissey in particular, well, he is one of the few truly original post post modern icons
and that says it all really

Passed on - thanks.

 

[Not Right in the Head]

To think that he/they warrant any more than a footnote in a discussion of world culture is preposterous. Get a grip.

 

[CrookedLittleVein]

I think it's over-egging the pudding a little to suggest that Morrissey or The Smiths have had an effect on world culture in the sense of measurably altering it in some way.

However, you could certainly argue that Morrissey is very much an indelible component of the British cultural landscape. And I suppose from there you could argue that the British cultural landscape is part of a broader international cultural picture.

But once you go down that interconnectedness-of all-things route, then everyone and everything could be said to have had an impact on world culture, from Lady Gaga to the toast rack.

 

[Troy]

Hello, very interesting question,

Were I involved in such a study, I would focus on purely 'The Smiths' element here.

They were the huge stepping stone from the face make up of Duran Duran, ABC, Spandau Ballet et al to the sea of power bands such as Oasis and Blur, The Smiths smashed all previous conceptions of 'pretty boy/ sweet boy rocker billie' bands to the raw energy of youth growing up in the Thatcher years - these years were very much a 'them and us' time, if you did not have money - which in the early 80s not many people did have - you were a nobody and were made to feel it by promoted labels such as 'Yuppie' etc.

Their name 'The Smiths' also gave a feeling of craftsmanship I've heard some people say - as in the following craftsman:

Goldsmith
Silversmith
Shoesmith - as in Farrier
Locksmith

The surname is that of the family living next door - anonymous to most.

Also I would highlight the lyrics of the time, Morrissey finding a job and how miserable he is because it is not his role to be fixed within a dead end role in life which most of us feel going from education into work and then - how mindless and talentless 'managers' speak to us.

You may wish to print off images of bands during the same time as The Smiths - their image you will know, is so strikingly different and very telling of their work - Morrissey in his cardigan - to Duran Duran's shiny suits, white lace up shoes and 'big' shoulder pads.

From his solo career there is not the same revolution, The Smiths were the beginning of something new and exciting, that time was then and may we always celebrate it.

Best wishes for your studies - never stop studying - for life will never be boring as your knowledge grows and grows.

 

[Anaesthesine]

To think that he/they warrant any more than a footnote in a discussion of world culture is preposterous. Get a grip.

Well, it is a history class on "how Music movements and people affected history and World Culture." That's a pretty valid topic.

Dailyalice hit the nail on the head with the whole vegetarian/animal rights thing; that was an international phenomenon. You could say it effected world culture (or youth culture) by altering the eating habits of tender-hearted idealists everywhere and putting animal-rights issues on the cultural radar.

The Man is one of the greatest lyricists ever, he was instantly iconic, and he managed to kick the whole notion of the "third sex" down the road a little bit. He's a player in musical history (in a weird, outsidery way) to say the least.

Whether Morrissey himself ends up as a footnote or something more really depends on how many people write books, term-papers, theses, screen-plays, lectures, novels or articles about him (isn't he the topic of some college-level courses somewhere?). Lord knows an impressive amount of ink has already been spilled on him during his lifetime, and he should have a pretty decent afterlife, too.

The Smiths were not The Beatles, but they have a valid place in the big musical scheme of things.

 

[Qvist]

I think the Smiths offered a succinct critique of the Thatcherism/Reaganism of the 80s
one with such resonance that it has gradually been absorbed into the cultural history, enough so that I am fairly certain that their music will be cited by future historians when referencing that time period

Hard as I try, I'm not actually able to envisage in what the Smiths' "succinct critique" of Thatcherism/Reaganism consisted. There's a certain attitude and quite a lot of how things felt inside Morrissey's head, but that is not a critique, much less a succinct one.

cheers

 

[Emotional Guide Dog]

Hard as I try, I'm not actually able to envisage in what the Smiths' "succinct critique" of Thatcherism/Reaganism consisted. There's a certain attitude and quite a lot of how things felt inside Morrissey's head, but that is not a critique, much less a succinct one.

cheers

Agreed. Just taking the lyrics & the music by themselves, The Smiths weren't often very political. At least I don't think so.

 

[dailyalice]

I think that he painted the picture of the effect of Reaganism/thatcherism on the working class in his songs (Jeane, Interesting Drug, eg) but you would need his interviews to understand who he held responsible.

FYI - the guy wrote back to say that Moz would be getting just a paragraph in his essay, amongst other artists, so he's got plenty with which to work.

 

[Worm]

Hard as I try, I'm not actually able to envisage in what the Smiths' "succinct critique" of Thatcherism/Reaganism consisted. There's a certain attitude and quite a lot of how things felt inside Morrissey's head, but that is not a critique, much less a succinct one.

cheers

I understand what you're saying, and in a sense you're right, but almost everything The Smiths did was a critique of Reaganism/Thatcherism in the sense that their music, images, and public appearances attacked the prevailing ideology of the mid-80s. Wearing tattered Levi's and a hearing aid on Top Of The Pops was an act of criticism, as was encouraging people not to work if they didn't want to.

Of course, it's true that Morrissey's "critique" wasn't totally consistent (as you know I think there's a conservative streak in his stuff, so it's silly to imagine he was strictly a left wing reaction to Reagan/Thatcher) but I do think his 'attitude' amounted to a kind of critique of the governments of both countries as well as the cultural trends emerging in each.

Whether or not anyone found it convincing is another story.

 

[Black Cloud]

Check the Morrissey issue of National Geographic. I have the map on my wall.

 

[SugarSpunSister]

Not exactly world culture, but I actually just handed in my final paper for an English course I had to take. The paper had to be on the play "Equus," but you could take any angle you wanted in the actual paper, as long as it pertained to the play.

I compared the play with popular music by using existentialism as a way of comparison. I actually worked The Smiths into it . The relationship between fans and the band, the religious nature of fanaticism, and its subjectivity .

 

[Worm]

Well, it is a history class on "how Music movements and people affected history and World Culture." That's a pretty valid topic.

Dailyalice hit the nail on the head with the whole vegetarian/animal rights thing; that was an international phenomenon. You could say it effected world culture (or youth culture) by altering the eating habits of tender-hearted idealists everywhere and putting animal-rights issues on the cultural radar.

The Man is one of the greatest lyricists ever, he was instantly iconic, and he managed to kick the whole notion of the "third sex" down the road a little bit. He's a player in musical history (in a weird, outsidery way) to say the least.

Whether Morrissey himself ends up as a footnote or something more really depends on how many people write books, term-papers, theses, screen-plays, lectures, novels or articles about him (isn't he the topic of some college-level courses somewhere?). Lord knows an impressive amount of ink has already been spilled on him during his lifetime, and he should have a pretty decent afterlife, too.

The Smiths were not The Beatles, but they have a valid place in the big musical scheme of things.

Gets back to the old thing about the Velvet Underground, doesn't it? The saying was, only a dozen people bought their albums, but each and every one of them formed a band. "Influence" is a difficult thing to quantify. Morrissey might inspire twenty books by twenty different authors, but all we can safely assume is that Morrissey inspired twenty people.

 

[Worm]

Not exactly world culture, but I actually just handed in my final paper for an English course I had to take. The paper had to be on the play "Equus," but you could take any angle you wanted in the actual paper, as long as it pertained to the play.

I compared the play with popular music by using existentialism as a way of comparison. I actually worked The Smiths into it . The relationship between fans and the band, the religious nature of fanaticism, and its subjectivity .

A recent production of "Equus" featured Daniel Radcliffe.

Daniel Radcliffe plays Harry Potter on the big screen.

The "Harry Potter" series is the best-selling book series of all time, with tens of millions of devout fans across the world. Harry Potter is bigger than Jesus and Evel Knievel combined.

J. K. Rowling, who wrote the series, is a huge Smiths fan.

Therefore Morrissey has massively influenced world culture.

Q.E.D.

 

[Anaesthesine]

Morrissey might inspire twenty books by twenty different authors, but all we can safely assume is that Morrissey inspired twenty people.

Sophist.

The difference between a historical footnote and a cultural powerhouse lies in the written word.

I think we can safely assume that John Lennon has only inspired about thirty authors, a handful of journalists and a filmmaker or two.

A recent production of "Equus" featured Daniel Radcliffe.

Daniel Radcliffe plays Harry Potter on the big screen.

The "Harry Potter" series is the best-selling book series of all time, with tens of millions of devout fans across the world. Harry Potter is bigger than Jesus and Evel Knievel combined.

J. K. Rowling, who wrote the series, is a huge Smiths fan.

Therefore Morrissey has massively influenced world culture.

Q.E.D.

Exactly.

Harry Potter was a brainy, charismatic, "subversive" nerd who regularly defied authority and made his own way in a treacherous, dark world.

Let's face it, Morrissey's spores have been spread far and wide.

 

[Qvist]

I understand what you're saying, and in a sense you're right, but almost everything The Smiths did was a critique of Reaganism/Thatcherism in the sense that their music, images, and public appearances attacked the prevailing ideology of the mid-80s. Wearing tattered Levi's and a hearing aid on Top Of The Pops was an act of criticism, as was encouraging people not to work if they didn't want to.

Of course, it's true that Morrissey's "critique" wasn't totally consistent (as you know I think there's a conservative streak in his stuff, so it's silly to imagine he was strictly a left wing reaction to Reagan/Thatcher) but I do think his 'attitude' amounted to a kind of critique of the governments of both countries as well as the cultural trends emerging in each.

Whether or not anyone found it convincing is another story.

I understand what you're saying too, I just don't think that amounts to a "succinct critique of Thatherism/Reaganism". Thatcherism, after all, ultimately wasn't really fundamentally about what sort of trousers to wear. I'd rather see it as a response to the prevailing spirit of the time. Thatcherism/Reaganism, broadly speaking, was one part of that, but so were a lot of other things.

In typical artististic fashion, T/R has tended to function as a sort of symbolic focus against which rebellion could be directed, frequently in a fairly exaggerated and oversimplified way - or as a convenient subsuming metaphor for everything that was wrong. Northern industrial decline, for instance. That was due to structural factors stretching at least two decades back and would have been a fact of life regardless of what government Britain had had, but seems to be addressed by musicians as if it was a result of Thatcher pushing the button marked "evil" upon moving into No 10 Downing Street.

cheers

 

[SugarSpunSister]

A recent production of "Equus" featured Daniel Radcliffe.

Daniel Radcliffe plays Harry Potter on the big screen.

The "Harry Potter" series is the best-selling book series of all time, with tens of millions of devout fans across the world. Harry Potter is bigger than Jesus and Evel Knievel combined.

J. K. Rowling, who wrote the series, is a huge Smiths fan.

Therefore Morrissey has massively influenced world culture.

Q.E.D.

....Incidentely, my professor said he'd never heard of The Smiths . He even went to Cambridge for grad school....not sure how he could have missed them .

 

[Not Right in the Head]

....Incidentely, my professor said he'd never heard of The Smiths . He even went to Cambridge for grad school....not sure how he could have missed them .

It's hard to notice anything other than your studies when you're in grad school.

 

[Worm]

In typical artististic fashion, T/R has tended to function as a sort of symbolic focus against which rebellion could be directed, frequently in a fairly exaggerated and oversimplified way - or as a convenient subsuming metaphor for everything that was wrong.

You're right, but that's the realm in which Morrissey exists. The pop star's realm is limited to that of the symbolic and the theatrical. Any critique he offers, however valuable, is bound to be symbolic. Wearing NHS specs, battered Levi's, a bush in his pocket, and a hearing aid on Top Of The Pops is, in that context, a very good and very succinct critique of R-T. But that's just me. I have a button in my apartment marked "Foolishness" which I press hourly, like a rat in a laboratory experiment.

Reagan and Thatcher are convenient targets, but why not? When we mention either name, don't we all know what they represent, more or less? They were both extremely charismatic representatives of a political movement coming into prominence in the Eighties. It is fine to say that industrial decline in both the UK and US was inevitable since the post-war booms could not stretch on forever, but the governments in power did make a difference in how the crisis was dealt with. Reagan and Thatcher were opportunists out to kill the welfare state, obliterate organized labor, and move as much capital as possible from the public to the private sector. They succeeded. There is no way to separate them from what took place under their stewardship; here in America, Reagan is a totemic figure spoken of with the reverence normally reserved for saints. His name alone conjures an entire decade of social, political, and economic changes in the U.S. I'm guessing the same is true in England for Missus Thatcher.

Also, let's not forget. Thatcher wasn't the only "convenient subsuming metaphor for everything that was wrong" used by Morrissey. The other one he liked was "America".