Morrissey as folk devil

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
Actually - there is, you sad, delusional, little racist.

He said this after pingate:

View attachment 59292

& before that he believed that Anne Marie had been smeared by the press. People can make mistakes esp at his age when in the 70s & 80s the chances of getting a fascist leader who was an Irish lesbian feminist vegan who used to be in the national secular society, the Labour party & a charity for Muslims, would have been zero.

He might want to redeem her or explain it - but he clearly didn't know what he was getting involved with. And it's over now.

View attachment 59293

Also - your opinions are not held by most working-class people. You can't use Brexit or controlled immigration as a fig leaf for your white nationalist, neo-Nazi garbage.

Even Anne Marie hates you.

View attachment 59294

View attachment 59295

View attachment 59296
Anne MW is funded by Zionists which is why I've never supported For Britain. If you're funded by Jews you must spout the Jewish party line which is: Jews and the banks are great, Nazis are the devil and Nazis are anyone who questions Jews.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
In the 00s Morrissey started to play in Israel, dismissing calls for a cultural boycott. He said:
20200925_224535.jpg

&
20200926_002956.jpg


In 2017 he wrote 3 songs set there -

The Girl From Tel Aviv Who Wouldn't Kneel, which included a swipe at American intervention in the Middle-East:
20200925_230018.jpg


When You Open Your Legs, in which the song's narrator forgets everything because of sex:
20200925_230119.jpg


& Israel which mixes sex & religion with images of threat & jealousy:
20200926_110225.jpg


There is absolutely nothing to suggest that it has anything to do with the conflict between Israel & Palestine - it seems far more likely that it's about sexual morality. Tel Aviv is having a great time in the sack & no one should tell it not to.

But the UK left was outraged.

Red Pepper was appalled & saw it as part of his descent into right-wing reactionary racism:
20200925_224823.jpg


Despite Morrissey mentioning Virgin Priests & many Gods, Pepper decided the threat had to be Islam:
20200925_224750.jpg


And decided this song about sex & religion had to be about Zionism & was telling the Palestinians they had no right to be aggrieved:
20200925_224731.jpg


Other reviews took the same line - that 2 songs about sex & 1 about defying authority had to be about Zionism.

A summary appeared in The Jewish Chronicle:
20200925_224654.jpg

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It didn't seem to occur to them that Moz has a fairly well documented admiration for Israeli actor Lior Ashkenazi & that the songs would more likely have been inspired by his films. And that he probably beetled off to Israel in the first place to meet him.


Their meeting:
20200926_000031.jpg


Scene from a Lior film Moz wanted to recreate:
20200926_000044.jpg


Also ironic (& depressing) that the UK left's obsession with Israel, so acute that it sees Morrissey as a zealous Zionist, would mire it in racism.


More fleg (& gender) trouble:
 
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Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Moz's opinions about Islamic terrorism are left-wing.

He blames governments & money.

20200926_130147.jpg


From his autobiography:
20200926_143420.jpg


His attitude to Islam is left-wing.

He's got issues with organised religion esp. when it comes to sexuality, but he doesn't hate the faithful.

20200926_144856.jpg


On the Orlando shooter:
20200926_194333.jpg


His attitude to borders is left-wing. Contrary to popular belief on Twitter open borders is a marginal & unworkable policy & isn't about being nice to refugees.

Moz uses strength to mean confident & ordered, not draconian & racist.

20200926_144454.jpg


20200926_143015.jpg


So how did he end up getting such a kicking for his Facebook post on the Manchester Bomb? And on a side note why does he think the left-wing has become right-wing?

It all pivots on Charlie Hebdo. A tiny left-wing anti-racist magazine's staff were massacred for blasphemy & some anglophone lefties blamed the victim.

It raged for months, but this sums it up:
20200926_201553.jpg


Moz seems to have been silent on the issue but a year later Orlando happens & Moz is mad at Trump:
20200926_194319.jpg


At the same time there was a refugee crisis in Europe & no coherent policies to deal with it. Extremism was increasing in badly managed camps. Troll campaigns exaggerated or fabricated refugee related crime. And Erdogan was using refugees as leverage, deliberately sending high numbers over the border to cause resource breakdowns & local stress.

The left was struggling to cope with a fascist group from a non-Western background & with complex problems that couldn't be papered over with a slogan.

& social media had turned us into witch hunting like-junkies.

So what did Moz actually say?

That he was angry. That words didn't make up for broken bodies. That May (famous for a hostile environment policy that could deport your Grandmother but not a terrorist) had bad policies. And he takes pot-shots at politicians, the press, the Queen & Islamic State.

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He was immediately accused of blaming all immigrants, all Muslims & all brown people.

They read their own 'dog-whistle' assumptions into it, instead of looking at it from his slightly off-kilter perspective.

Moz hits up.

They hit down.

So, it's not really surprising he became receptive to Douglas Murray & Anne Marie & thought they were being unfairly smeared.

Red Pepper accused him of Islamophobia & increasing community tensions as if all the endless online hot-takes didn't do that on a minute by minute basis to build their platforms.

20200926_120426.jpg


Michael Legge who wrote a 2008 blog that could easily be paraphrased to mean all Muslims are f**king nutters who are potential bombers who should be locked in asylums:
legge.JPG


posted abuse & has been calling all Morrissey fans racists ever since:
20200926_123945.jpg


For the past 3 years people have been posting unbelievably hateful & cruel things about a man, who while prone to invective & living in his own bubble, has never been anywhere near as vile as them.

His only crime is speaking in Morrissey & not joining a political Twitter tribe.

0339f76ac7f3dcfa232f99a31531d23b.jpg
 
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Moz's opinions about Islamic terrorism are left-wing.

He blames governments & money.

View attachment 59366

From his autobiography:
View attachment 59367

His attitude to Islam is left-wing.

He's got issues with organised religion esp. when it comes to sexuality, but he doesn't hate the faithful.

View attachment 59368

On the Orlando shooter:
View attachment 59369

His attitude to borders is left-wing. Contrary to popular belief on Twitter open borders is a marginal & unworkable policy & isn't about being nice to refugees.

Moz uses strength to mean confident & ordered, not draconian & racist.

View attachment 59370

View attachment 59371

So how did he end up getting such a kicking for his Facebook post on the Manchester Bomb? And on a side note why does he think the left-wing has become right-wing?

It all pivots on Charlie Hebdo. A tiny left-wing anti-racist magazine's staff were massacred for blasphemy & some anglophone lefties blamed the victim.

It raged for months, but this sums it up:
View attachment 59372

Moz is fairly silent on the issue, but does wear a Je Suis t-shirt with his own name on it.
View attachment 59373

A year later Orlando happens & Moz is mad at Trump:
View attachment 59375

At the same time there was a refugee crisis in Europe & no coherent policies to deal with it. Extremism was increasing in badly managed camps. Troll campaigns exaggerated or fabricated refugee related crime. And Erdogan was using refugees as leverage, deliberately sending high numbers over the border to cause resource breakdowns & local stress.

The left was struggling to cope with a fascist group from a non-Western background & with complex problems that couldn't be papered over with a slogan.

& social media had turned us into witch hunting like-junkies.

So what did Moz actually say?

That he was angry. That words didn't make up for broken bodies. That May (famous for a hostile environment policy that could deport your Grandmother but not a terrorist) had bad policies. And he takes pot-shots at politicians, the press, the Queen & Islamic State.

View attachment 59382
View attachment 59383

He was immediately accused of blaming all immigrants, all Muslims & all brown people.

They read their own 'dog-whistle' assumptions into it, instead of looking at it from his slightly off-kilter perspective.

Moz hits up.

They hit down.

So, it's not really surprising he became receptive to Douglas Murray & Anne Marie & thought they were being unfairly smeared.

Red Pepper accused him of Islamophobia & increasing community tensions as if all the endless online hot-takes didn't do that on a minute by minute basis to build their platforms.

View attachment 59384

Michael Legge who wrote a 2007 blog calling all Muslims terrorists posted abuse & has been calling all Morrissey fans racists ever since.

View attachment 59385

For the past 3 years people have been posting unbelievably hateful & cruel things about a man, who while prone to invective & living in his own bubble, has never been anywhere near as vile as them.

His only crime is speaking in Morrissey & not joining a political Twitter tribe.

View attachment 59386
Michael Legge has been a fan since 1974? 😅

One thing:
The picture of Morrissey in the Je Suis Morrissey shirt is from 2007. The shirt was also sold on the Greatest Hits tour. It had nothing to do with Charlie Hebdo. On the back it says "It's Morrissey's town, we just live in it".
A French friend of mine once suggested that it was a wordplay because the sentence has a double meaning in French. ("I am/I follow Morrissey")
(I have one in my collection and it's one of my favourites.)
 
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Hovis Lesley

Well-Known Member
I was, actually, wondering where you’ve been Nerak.

Am I to understand Red Pepper is still a going concern?
 
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Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Michael Legge has been a fan since 1974? 😅

One thing:
The picture of Morrissey in the Je Suis Morrissey shirt is from 2007. The shirt was also sold on the Greatest Hits tour. It had nothing to do with Charlie Hebdo. On the back it says "It's Morrissey's town, we just live in it".
A French friend of mine once suggested that it was a wordplay because the sentence has a double meaning in French. ("I am/I follow Morrissey")
(I have one in my collection and it's one of my favourites.)

Damn.

I will update. I have the memory of a goldfish if it's not written in my notebook. 🙃

It's a cute picture though, so I'll put it here.

dd363b4e2781d75870f085144ad369e0.jpg
 
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Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Moz has always been an oddball who said funny & shocking things that saw him denounced as a bigmouth, twat or racist. And although he's always self-deprecating, he's never shown sufficient contrition and he doesn't stop working.
moz 80s.jpg


His image has changed over the years -

from a camp, painfully thin, vulnerable, book-lover, indistinguishable from a middle-class student leftie despite scandals about child abuse, violence and crime in his lyrics and some jarring interviews:
moz.jpg


to a rockabilly Skinhead Fascist Hooligan still singing about crime and violence but in a scary common working-class way that might mean he means it:
moz y.jpg


to a fat old man whose meandering & throwaway references to taboo topics & political figures were gathered together to make him an unforgivable, untrustworthy, inexcusable far right Brexiteer - ugly, stupid, racist, talentless, rape apologist, gammon, horrible, with repugnant, offensive & abhorrent views - a pariah - whose remaining fans are bigoted, nostalgic or can't read:
mozz.jpg


The Mexican members of his band get whitewashed & even their sound gets whitewashed (in the Quietus):
qqqq brexit.JPG


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The Smiths - with its 3 socially acceptable & as far as we know straight, white males, who haven't worked together since the 1980s are still sold in shops that ban Morrissey (a queer, with People of Colour in his band, working now) on the grounds of him being a racist, bigot who is stuck in the past:
mono.JPG


Fans are ignorant (Quietus):
quietus.JPG


And can't correctly interpret songs about only being happy on stage as triumphalist songs about rebels winning the war:
q brexit.JPG


And can't see that he's one of THEM, making sneaky jokes at the expense of Remainers, none of whom have any wealth or power:
ggggggg brexit.JPG


So how did it get so bad?

If we go to the first interview to really get him in trouble, from 2016, then it's fairly obvious.

He thinks any politician hated or sidelined by the media is probably on the side of liberation, & in 2016 (just a year before he first mentioned the vegan, animal rights activist, attention-seeking, Anne-Marie of UKIP & For Britain) he was thinking of standing for the tiny, left-wing, publicity-free Animal Welfare Party:

george.JPG


bernie.JPG


He thinks anyone who is or was in power is probably dreadful - saying Nigel would be a good PM isn't a compliment - he didn't campaign or vote for Brexit, & he was mad at Nige for not supporting Anne Marie.

mire.JPG


He thinks anyone who refuses to eat animals is fantastic.

animals.JPG


& he's against Speciesism - the idea that animals are inferior to humans - & most people either find that insane or offensive, since reducing people to the status of animals is something we do when we don't like them.

moz race.JPG


So he probably did (& maybe still does) think that Anne Marie was being smeared by the media as a far right Islamophobe to stop animals from being liberated (among other equality issues around crime, gay rights & women's rights).

Anne Marie herself is hard to understand - is she making alliances with the far right out of convenience after being disillusioned by liberal hypocrisy & inaction or did she buy into their ideology? - but Moz's obsession with the need for publicity, even though the media lies to entrench political oppression, & with animal welfare has been life-long.

Unfortunately it's too odd to fit into news articles. Ripping him out of context & making out that he's wittingly far-right is easier - esp. now he's not particularly well & can't explain without being even odder, giving even more opinions to rip out of context & drive outrage, which drives clicks, likes & RTs.

People who thought he was pretentious & self-righteous might think he had it coming & people who prefer to run with the crowd might not care - but anyone with a wee bit of a conscience or compassion, should be able to see that this OTT monstering is uncalled for & rather shameful.


 
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"Most interviews I have been very displeased with because, obviously, you don't have any control. You can be very merry in an interview and it can come across as being very dour. Or you can say something flippantly which will be written in blood in the music press and it sounds as though you’re deadly serious. You're throwing yourself on the mercy of a journalist who can be friendly during the interview but can turn out to be something of a bohemeth (sic) in print."

Morrissey, 1983, in conversation with Dave Haslam.
Oddly prophetic.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
"Most interviews I have been very displeased with because, obviously, you don't have any control. You can be very merry in an interview and it can come across as being very dour. Or you can say something flippantly which will be written in blood in the music press and it sounds as though you’re deadly serious. You're throwing yourself on the mercy of a journalist who can be friendly during the interview but can turn out to be something of a bohemeth (sic) in print."

Morrissey, 1983, in conversation with Dave Haslam.
Oddly prophetic.

The best interviews are ones that try to capture his personality - otherwise he's better when you listen to the audio, then you can hear how gentle he is.
 
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The best interviews are ones that try to capture his personality - otherwise he's better when you listen to the audio, then you can hear how gentle is.

I agree. Which is why...

Screenshot_20200928-150634_Chrome.jpg


Another problem is that a lot of people don't get his humour. Even in some of the best interviews, there's often misunderstandings or even communication breakdown.
Take Desert Island Discs for example. Great interview, intelligent interviewer, interesting questions and yet - Kirsty had to ask him once or twice if he was serious and didn't get some of his other jokes either.
It was harmless and didn't taint the conversation, but it happens a lot and most hacks don't handle it well.
 
One writer who put some effort into including Morrissey's nonverbal communication was Paul Morley, when he interviewed him for Uncut in 2006. The fact that he had known Morrissey for over 30 years might have helped.

"Occasionally, there’s no sound, just a look, brutal and artistic, to indicate that the question is monumentally stupid or too profound or unstable to adequately deal with, a look containing elements of a weary, oddly happy acceptance, a faint smirk as if he might indeed be swooning, a faraway, slightly old-fashioned look, a flash of boredom and/or bad temper, a glimmer of contempt and a subtle, radiant sneer.
In the following record of our meeting, I use the word ‘face’ to communicate this silence.

Occasionally there is a peeved, but somehow polite sigh that seems to stretch from the beginning to the end of time. I signify this with the word ‘sigh’.

Also for the record, I visit the bathroom three times during our time together – just to check my expression in the mirror – and each time I return, Morrissey has moved to a different seat and is wearing a slightly guilty expression on his face that I can’t quite pin down."

Which led to...

Screenshot_20200928-152142.jpg
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
I agree. Which is why...

View attachment 59443

Another problem is that a lot of people don't get his humour. Even in some of the best interviews, there's often misunderstandings or even communication breakdown.
Take Desert Island Discs for example. Great interview, intelligent interviewer, interesting questions and yet - Kirsty had to ask him once or twice if he was serious and didn't get some of his other jokes either.
It was harmless and didn't taint the conversation, but it happens a lot and most hacks don't handle it well.

Yeah - I didn't realise so many people didn't get his jokes.

I think it's worse now because they can use a picture of him where he looks angry - because that's what age does to a face & he can't control it while he's singing.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
One writer who put some effort into including Morrissey's nonverbal communication was Paul Morley, when he interviewed him for Uncut in 2006. The fact that he had known Morrissey for over 30 years might have helped.

"Occasionally, there’s no sound, just a look, brutal and artistic, to indicate that the question is monumentally stupid or too profound or unstable to adequately deal with, a look containing elements of a weary, oddly happy acceptance, a faint smirk as if he might indeed be swooning, a faraway, slightly old-fashioned look, a flash of boredom and/or bad temper, a glimmer of contempt and a subtle, radiant sneer.
In the following record of our meeting, I use the word ‘face’ to communicate this silence.

Occasionally there is a peeved, but somehow polite sigh that seems to stretch from the beginning to the end of time. I signify this with the word ‘sigh’.

Also for the record, I visit the bathroom three times during our time together – just to check my expression in the mirror – and each time I return, Morrissey has moved to a different seat and is wearing a slightly guilty expression on his face that I can’t quite pin down."

Which led to...

View attachment 59444

That's why Moz is a great writer - all those clashing emotions all the time. That's the thing that can't be taught.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Lest we forget, ye olde right-wing denunciation of Moz in The Spectator in 2013 for disliking:

The Royals
Judges
Patriotism
The London Olympics
The World

& for being pro:

Animal rights
Working-class gangsters

20200822_231620.jpg


Because how dare this unoriginal working-class oik consider himself to be an artist.

20200929_163345.jpg


 
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Lest we forget, ye olde right-wing denunciation of Moz in The Spectator in 2013 for disliking:

The Royals
Judges
Patriotism
The London Olympics
The World

& for being pro:

Animal rights
Working-class gangsters

View attachment 59463

Because how dare this unoriginal working-class oik consider himself to be an artist.

View attachment 59464


Make sure you treat yourself to something nice every once in a while. Going through all this crap can get to you.

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(I stole this)
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
In the UK even arts hacks are in the pulpit & punditry business. They expect moral commentary & when faced with none, they assume it must be in code. If it's in code it must be socially unacceptable, ipso facto, Bengali In Platforms, must be a racist song.

Especially as it violates the norms of polite society by using the words Bengali, shelve your Western plans & when you belong here, routinely summarised as Morrissey saying that Asians don't belong in the UK.

But what's in the song?

A gauche, eager innocent going somewhere new & trying to fit in.
20200930_181041.jpg


Similar to Half A Person
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Harsh reality in the form of someone telling him life is hard & his plans won't work out.
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Similar to You Just Haven't Earned It Yet Baby.
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An object of desire - the Platform boots - that blind.
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Moz's obsession with The New York Dolls is well documented.


f86db3e6c0c25d27a645569fdbd0c488.jpg


& time that binds.
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Moz's attitude to time is bleak. It takes us from the safety of home, past early promise to failure & death.
20200930_182313.jpg


& what binds us? Family, friends, history, community, love. Moz has described himself as Northern English & Irish Catholic. His work struggles with the themes of attachment to people and places verses the want for autonomy & control. And with the relationship between the country of his birth & his old country.

In Back To The Old House:
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A Rush & Push & This Land Is Ours (often added to his list of racist crimes)
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The Queen Is Dead:
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Mountjoy (an Irish prison where Britain executed Irish Nationalists):
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This Is Not Your Country (about the troubles in Northern Ireland & often added to his list of racist crimes):
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& Irish Blood, English Heart (sometimes adapted to Racist Blood, English Heart in articles featuring his list of racist crimes):
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What these songs are doing is asking important questions without easy answers. What are we? How do we fit in? What's allowed?

There's really no doubt that Bengali In Platforms empathises with the man from Bengal. What it doesn't do is put on a cod Indian accent & speak over him, or soothe him - & us - with nice slogans.
 
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