Morrissey as folk devil

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
Morrissey liking the gay community:

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You insulting the gay community & falsely claiming that they commit more murders. You pretend he agrees with you, when you hate a part of his sexuality.

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Your point in this one seems to be that Moz is a libertarian.

I already know.

I also know that I am more of a libertarian than the little authoritarians of the Labour party. Their woke rulebook puts Stalin and Hitler to shame.
 

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
You're lying - you're distorting - you're promoting your own neo-Nazi agenda.

He's not saying he'd just be friends - he's rejecting your ideology.

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& he supported BLM.

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You've gathered together a package of Moz-style damage limitation exercises.

Which are very paltry indeed.

He occasionally indulges in this kind of stuff, but not very often. He clearly prefers free speech and airing his honest opinions.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Your point in this one seems to be that Moz is a libertarian.

I already know.

I also know that I am more of a libertarian than the little authoritarians of the Labour party. Their woke rulebook puts Stalin and Hitler to shame.

You're a neo-Nazi.

There are left-wing libertarians - it's a branch of socialist-anarchism.

He's part of LGBT+

You hate them & can't even acknowledge his sexuality.

Which includes a fantasy about prison sex.

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reelfountain

Well-Known Member
You're a neo-Nazi.

There are left-wing libertarians - it's a branch of socialist-anarchism.

He's part of LGBT+

You hate them & can't even acknowledge his sexuality.

Which includes a fantasy about prison sex.

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Moz has never said he is gay or ever expressed support for the happy shiny commercialised fun-for-all-the-family-especially-the-kiddies LGBT movement.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
You've gathered together a package of Moz-style damage limitation exercises.

Which are very paltry indeed.

He occasionally indulges in this kind of stuff, but not very often. He clearly prefers free speech and airing his honest opinions.

Bollocks Reel.

You have to rely on minuscule misquotes.

His views are overwhelmingly left-wing however mad or disillusioned he gets with middle-class arty types & the establishment.
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reelfountain

Well-Known Member
Bollocks Reel.

You have to rely on minuscule misquotes.

His views are overwhelmingly left-wing however mad or disillusioned he gets with middle-class arty types & the establishment.
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I agree with this quote. I found the jingoism of the Olympics crass and cloying to the point of being offensive. It seems the establishment like to give a free pass to the flags when they feel it befits the occasion.

The whole of the Olympics made me seethe. It was indeed foul, extravagant and crass.

Like Moz I'm not a Royalist either. And like Moz many of my views are traditionally left wing, certainly concerning economics. But the modern day left has become a stranger to anybody working class and now holds us in contempt.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Moz has never said he is gay or ever expressed support for the happy shiny commercialised fun-for-all-the-family-especially-the-kiddies LGBT movement.

He's said he's attracted to men, he's acknowledged 2 boyfriends, he repeatedly references gay people, gay lifestyles & gay sex & he condemned Trump for not reassuring the gay community.

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Nerak

Reverse Ferret
I agree with this quote. I found the jingoism of the Olympics crass and cloying to the point of being offensive. It seems the establishment like to give a free pass to the flags when they feel it befits the occasion.

The whole of the Olympics made me seethe. It was indeed foul, extravagant and crass.

Like Moz I'm not a Royalist either. And like Moz many of my views are traditionally left wing, certainly concerning economics. But the modern day left has become a stranger to anybody working class and now holds us in contempt.

There's no 'like Moz' in it - you're starting to sound desperate.

You have nothing.

His vision isn't yours.

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reelfountain

Well-Known Member
There's no 'like Moz' in it - you're starting to sound desperate.

You have nothing.

His vision isn't yours.

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The only desperation is your clumsy attempts to try and pretend that Moz does not prefer the way England was before the opening of the floodgates. He shares this opinion with many people; in fact the majority of the country.

But to the media and the establishment you are not allowed to even broach the subject. Cheap labour and the way mass migration weakens solidarity has for years worked well for the bosses. Humanitarianism and love thy neighbour has nothing to do with it.
 
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Nerak

Reverse Ferret
The only desperation is your clumsy attempts to try and pretend that Moz does not prefer the way England was before the opening of the floodgates. He shares this opinion with many people; in fact the majority of the country.

But to the media and the establishment you are not allowed to broach the subject. Cheap labour and the way mass migration weakens solidarity has for years worked well for the bosses. Humanitarianism and love thy neighbour has nothing to do with it.

Your opinion is backed up by nothing. Lying isn't an argument.

His childhood was full of poverty, violence & migration. He misses the past because he was a child - not because it was nicer.

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& his problem with immigration & borders isn't immigrants - it's governments & chaos.

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& to remind you - he very often hated England growing up:

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& even The Guardian acknowledged that the floodgates comment was out of context.

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& he followed up with:

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&

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reelfountain

Well-Known Member
Your opinion is backed up by nothing. Lying isn't an argument.

His childhood was full of poverty, violence & migration. He misses the past because he was a child - not because it was nicer.

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& his problem with immigration & borders isn't immigrants - it's governments & chaos.

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& to remind you - he very often hated England growing up:

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& even The Guardian acknowledged that the floodgates comment was out of context.

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& he followed up with:

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&

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Denial springs to mind.

But no, if it makes you happy keep fishing for more "evidence" that Moz doesn't share the opinions of most other working class English people when it comes to England being engineered into oblivion.

He's clearly stated his opinions and is usually far from apologetic. Bear in mind that Moz supports the (according to the hysterical left)"far right" For Britain party. There is no denying that one.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
He also had a girlfriend that he considered having kids with.

Moz has always denied being gay and has never once virtue-signalled the rainbow flag of LGBT.

He's said he's attracted to men & women because he's attracted to men and women.

That's bisexuality or pansexuality & it doesn't make the gay sex any less gay.

The first woman he fell in love with:

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His ex-boyfriend:

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A song about having sex with a man in a street in Rome:


A song about rent boys.


His early role model:

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His hero:

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His favourite drag queen:

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& this is very likely him at the North's first gay pride parade.

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I could go on - there's a lot of gay stuff. He doesn't have to wave a rainbow flag - it's written all over his face. 🤨
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Denial springs to mind.

But no, if it makes you happy keep fishing for more "evidence" that Moz doesn't share the opinions of most other working class English people when it comes to England being engineered into oblivion.

He's clearly stated his opinions and is usually far from apologetic. Bear in mind that Moz supports the (according to the hysterical left)"far right" For Britain party. There is no denying that one.

Actually - there is, you sad, delusional, little racist.

He said this after pingate:

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& before that he believed that Anne Marie had been smeared by the press. People can make mistakes esp at his age when in the 70s & 80s the chances of getting a fascist leader who was an Irish lesbian feminist vegan who used to be in the national secular society, the Labour party & a charity for Muslims, would have been zero.

He might want to redeem her or explain it - but he clearly didn't know what he was getting involved with. And it's over now.

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Also - your opinions are not held by most working-class people. You can't use Brexit or controlled immigration as a fig leaf for your white nationalist, neo-Nazi garbage.

Even Anne Marie hates you.

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O

Okay

Guest
hell mend these people.i still have to see what he has said which in a court of law would be called racist.
people stick to their own race--of course they do,you just have to visit any prison in the world and every race has its own space.
chinese are a subspecies--directed at the chinese state,some of the worst human rights on the planet,wang quangzhang,an activist, electric shocked on a daily basis and had to wait 5 years to see a lawyer,i could go on.

People sticking to their own race in prison because of racism. The gangs that run prisons have racist philosophies. Not every prisoner is racist but this is an example of how people will support or ignore racist beliefs when the people promoting those beliefs are in power.
What happens in prisons and what people do to survive in that situation is not a good example. Do you also think that homosexual rape as a means of establishing dominance is how most people would behave if they were honest about it?
 

gordyboy9

GAME OF DEATH.
People sticking to their own race in prison because of racism. The gangs that run prisons have racist philosophies. Not every prisoner is racist but this is an example of how people will support or ignore racist beliefs when the people promoting those beliefs are in power.
What happens in prisons and what people do to survive in that situation is not a good example. Do you also think that homosexual rape as a means of establishing dominance is how most people would behave if they were honest about it?
its not racist philosophies,its survival and to survive you have to pick a side.as for rape in prison,its almost a myth,as someone who watches people like wes watson,a man in prison who has sex with another man on the wing loses the repect of his fellow inmates.maybe latinos will do it,blacks and whites are a no.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Pingate happened as Moz was releasing California Son - a selection of entirely left-wing protest songs from his childhood - plus he champions his long-time musical love Jobraith (whose career was cut-short mostly because he came out & really was gay) & he genderqueers a Melanie track & evokes gay marriage on a hit for 5th Dimension.

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A tiny bit of research would have revealed that Moz had always loved these artists, even when he was almost behaving himself by being a socialist & wanting to guillotine Margaret Thatcher (who he still hates).

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He also thought the Beeb had it in for Buffy - so it's not just white Indie artists he thinks get excluded - it's anyone with a message that disturbs the establishment.

& that tiny bit of research would have revealed that whatever he thought he was doing, he didn't think he'd gone to the far right.

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A few articles gently explaining how & why the deeply unlikely Anne Marie Waters had made some terrible life choices - Nick Cohen used to admire her - would have given Moz some useful information & kept the situation clear.

But no - the call of the clickbait & the thrill of outrage was too strong.

The Guardian indulged their prejudices & couldn't help but hear slimey trolling - in what is, a very sweet & sincere album.

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Mersey rail took down the poster. Indie record stores removed his records. Seemingly Indie nights stopped playing him. And the current moral panic got into full swing.

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reelfountain

Well-Known Member
A folk devil is the personification of evil. They're engaged in wrongdoing. An instantly recognisable unambiguously negative symbol with no favourable characteristics. A threat to society. Their sins must be litanised (there are lists of Moz's crimes!). Good people must identify, denounce and drive them out of public life. The moral boundaries must exclude them. They're toxic. They taint.

To get rid of the folk devil - there is a moral panic. This always involves atrocity tales - false stories endlessly repeated that sum up their badness and cause outrage. It sometimes involves a subversion myth - a story that explains the way in which a member of a social circle has turned out to be a wrong un & has rained evil upon the righteous (this is esp true of Moz & 'indie').

Stanley Cohen's model for moral panics goes roughly like this:


1. Labeling - a threat to the social fabric is detected, labeled & magnified by gossip/media/social media etc.

2. Exaggeration - the narrative is amplified, distorted, fabricated & escalates into a moral panic.

3. Symbolisation - shorthands are used to sum up the threat, often visual: the flag, the pin.

4. Prediction - future evil deeds are expected & confirmation bias, intense scrutiny & myths tends to supply them until the panic is over.

Moz centres himself as deviant, defective, distressed & defiant & ultimately I think that's what's so disturbing about him... & what's so brilliant about him.

This thread is probably, mostly, going to be me :swear hoping some passing hack/academic helps end this madness.


An odd one to start with (since I was reading a sociology book from 1979) - Moz has caused indignation with his occasional assertion that other groups can be racist... but it appears it was a known thing that was acknowledged on the left (unless it came out of Morrissey's mouth).

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& also - as I suspected - there was some tension between ethnic/religious groups & gay/women's lib.

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(This in no way makes the far right less rubbish...)

It's from Rastaman by Ernest Cashmore & I didn't realise that in England they were a 1970s youth culture movement like the Skins & Punks (who also feature in the book).

Interesting article about Jewish punks:


And a truly twisty documentary about Idi Amin expelling Asian people from Uganda to the UK in the 1970s - it's a riot of class, religion, ethnicity & anti-colonialism being anti-racist & racist at the same time.

Did you know that Bernie Rhodes openly hated Pakistanis? Even the Clash chided him for this.

I suppose in your eyes that makes him a punky Jewish neo Nazi.
 
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