Morrissey as folk devil

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
A folk devil is the personification of evil. They're engaged in wrongdoing. An instantly recognisable unambiguously negative symbol with no favourable characteristics. A threat to society. Their sins must be litanised (there are lists of Moz's crimes!). Good people must identify, denounce and drive them out of public life. The moral boundaries must exclude them. They're toxic. They taint.

To get rid of the folk devil - there is a moral panic. This always involves atrocity tales - false stories endlessly repeated that sum up their badness and cause outrage. It sometimes involves a subversion myth - a story that explains the way in which a member of a social circle has turned out to be a wrong un & has rained evil upon the righteous (this is esp true of Moz & 'indie').

Stanley Cohen's model for moral panics goes roughly like this:


1. Labeling - a threat to the social fabric is detected, labeled & magnified by gossip/media/social media etc.

2. Exaggeration - the narrative is amplified, distorted, fabricated & escalates into a moral panic.

3. Symbolisation - shorthands are used to sum up the threat, often visual: the flag, the pin.

4. Prediction - future evil deeds are expected & confirmation bias, intense scrutiny & myths tends to supply them until the panic is over.

Moz centres himself as deviant, defective, distressed & defiant & ultimately I think that's what's so disturbing about him... & what's so brilliant about him.

This thread is probably, mostly, going to be me :swear hoping some passing hack/academic helps end this madness.


An odd one to start with (since I was reading a sociology book from 1979) - Moz has caused indignation with his occasional assertion that other groups can be racist... but it appears it was a known thing that was acknowledged on the left (unless it came out of Morrissey's mouth).

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& also - as I suspected - there was some tension between ethnic/religious groups & gay/women's lib.

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(This in no way makes the far right less rubbish...)

It's from Rastaman by Ernest Cashmore & I didn't realise that in England they were a 1970s youth culture movement like the Skins & Punks (who also feature in the book).

Interesting article about Jewish punks:


And a truly twisty documentary about Idi Amin expelling Asian people from Uganda to the UK in the 1970s - it's a riot of class, religion, ethnicity & anti-colonialism being anti-racist & racist at the same time.

 
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joe frady

Vile Refusenik
í would watch this 'debate', bit í think í am washing my hair to-night...


.
 

gordyboy9

GAME OF DEATH.
britain was a mess in the 70s but at least everyone was in the same boat.would i take it over today,damn right.you could leave your front door open,couldnt do that now.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
The 4 most inflammatory topics in UK politics have been Islam, Zionism, Gender & Brexit... Moz has managed to be on the wrong side of all of them just by not sticking to the language rules & rarely (to never) engaging with anyone in the media.

So it's interesting to contrast his case with JK Rowling - sociable billionaire & brave defender of women's & children's rights, transphobic witch or tragic Twitter addict, depending on your political stance.

The UK centre/left has written several hot-takes in her support. This one by Nick Cohen relates the most to some of the ways Moz has been monstered (sometimes by the same hacks objecting to JK's monstering).


Expressing complicated & unpopular views. The cowardice & herd mentality of showbiz. Unjustly separating the art from the artist. Being labelled a bigot - in JK's case they recognize that her words were twisted.

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JK made a lot of her hack friends during the campaign for Scottish Independence. She was a Unionist & they were vastly outnumbered on Twitter by ardent Nationalists who were dubbed Cybernats.

She was also against Corbynism (Jeremy Corbyn, UK Labour Party leader, not really like Bernie Sanders, but he'd be the closest American equivalent) - probably for more than the anti-Zionism that tipped over into paranoid neo-Nazi adjacent antisemitism, but it was the prejudice row that blazed across Twitter.

A lot of Moz's haters were pro-Corbyn & despite finding themselves relentlessly tweeting support for a leader who is likely to be remembered as a borderline if not actual racist - it's still Moz who gets attacked for his 'outbursts' (aka a couple of sentences).

Eg. Bragg - not cancelled, still telling everyone what it's acceptable to say & do, having refreshed Google hoping to see Moz denounced by the world... despite...

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But Moz forever shackled to his repellant opinions - which exist almost entirely in people's mad fantasies.

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The Dog reviews pretty much consisted of how horrible & untouchable he was. That he's a British nativist, racist, a misogynist piece of sh🍷t... probably the worst showbiz moral panic since Oscar Wilde.
 

gordyboy9

GAME OF DEATH.
hell mend these people.i still have to see what he has said which in a court of law would be called racist.
people stick to their own race--of course they do,you just have to visit any prison in the world and every race has its own space.
chinese are a subspecies--directed at the chinese state,some of the worst human rights on the planet,wang quangzhang,an activist, electric shocked on a daily basis and had to wait 5 years to see a lawyer,i could go on.
 

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
The 4 most inflammatory topics in UK politics have been Islam, Zionism, Gender & Brexit... Moz has managed to be on the wrong side of all of them just by not sticking to the language rules & rarely (to never) engaging with anyone in the media.

So it's interesting to contrast his case with JK Rowling - sociable billionaire & brave defender of women's & children's rights, transphobic witch or tragic Twitter addict, depending on your political stance.

The UK centre/left has written several hot-takes in her support. This one by Nick Cohen relates the most to some of the ways Moz has been monstered (sometimes by the same hacks objecting to JK's monstering).


Expressing complicated & unpopular views. The cowardice & herd mentality of showbiz. Unjustly separating the art from the artist. Being labelled a bigot - in JK's case they recognize that her words were twisted.

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JK made a lot of her hack friends during the campaign for Scottish Independence. She was a Unionist & they were vastly outnumbered on Twitter by ardent Nationalists who were dubbed Cybernats.

She was also against Corbynism (Jeremy Corbyn, UK Labour Party leader, not really like Bernie Sanders, but he'd be the closest American equivalent) - probably for more than the anti-Zionism that tipped over into paranoid neo-Nazi adjacent antisemitism, but it was the prejudice row that blazed across Twitter.

A lot of Moz's haters were pro-Corbyn & despite finding themselves relentlessly tweeting support for a leader who is likely to be remembered as a borderline if not actual racist - it's still Moz who gets attacked for his 'outbursts' (aka a couple of sentences).

Eg. Bragg - not cancelled, still telling everyone what it's acceptable to say & do, having refreshed Google hoping to see Moz denounced by the world... despite...

View attachment 59228

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But Moz forever shackled to his repellant opinions - which exist almost entirely in people's mad fantasies.

View attachment 59230

The Dog reviews pretty much consisted of how horrible & untouchable he was. That he's a British nativist, racist, a misogynist piece of sh🍷t... probably the worst showbiz moral panic since Oscar Wilde.
What is all this cack?
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Because Morrissey is old, a man & BAD - he's often compared to Trump, who he hates & has literally nothing in common with.

Satire site NewsThump took a swipe:

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Giving Moz this to say:

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Despite one of his scandals being:

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With these quotes:
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& Moz being mad at Trump for being anti-gay & pro-gun.

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reelfountain

Well-Known Member
Accurate, evidence based analysis. Not your thing, I know.
But what is your aim - to somehow "prove" that Morrissey is not a racist?

I agree with all Moz's comments on race, but according to the guidebook of the modern left to which you are a member, Moz's comments are indeed categorizable as "racist".

So you're wasting your time trying to redeem him as a non-patriotic wokester.

Moz loves England and Ireland and is not a supporter of the Diversity Agenda that is destroying the greatness of both these proud nations.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
But what is your aim - to somehow "prove" that Morrissey is not a racist?

I agree with all Moz's comments on race, but according to the guidebook of the modern left to which you are a member, Moz's comments are indeed categorizable as "racist".

So you're wasting your time trying to redeem him as a non-patriotic wokester.

Moz loves England and Ireland and is not a supporter of the Diversity Agenda that is destroying the greatness of both these proud nations.

Bollocks.

Moz isn't a racist.

Left-wing discourse isn't confined to faux-woke or Twitter virtue signalling.

And you ignore practically everything he's ever said to push your own neo-Nazi agenda.

So get knotted.
 

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
Bollocks.

Moz isn't a racist.

Left-wing discourse isn't confined to faux-woke or Twitter virtue signalling.

And you ignore practically everything he's ever said to push your own neo-Nazi agenda.

So get knotted.
Moz is not hateful and does not judge people by their race, but to the left a "racist" is anybody who goes off script and is honest about certain truths.

A black person can announce that they are proud of their skin colour and that black is beautiful, but if a white person states these things then that person is branded as a "racist".

The left makes these silly rules and Moz refused to march in line. He broke the rules that your group espouses.

It's no use tying yourself in knots in an attempt to redeem his name, he simply holds views that your group does not agree with.

Moz's cardinal crime is refusing to celebrate England's transition from a great country to a strange amalgamation of Nigeria/Pakistan where only the tribal laws of the jungle apply.
 

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
We just want the guy we like to be liked by everyone, and we think the reason why people don't like him isn't legitimate from our perspective.
Morrissey has never been liked by everyone. The Smiths were a strictly acquired taste. Most people either adored them or absolutely hated them. And when I say them I mainly mean Morrissey. He has always inflamed sensibilities with his comments. The only difference is that in recent years people have generally become more intolerant about opinions that run contrary to what the media officially endorses, and we now have a strange thing called social media in which people can vent off their dislikes after a hard day. Also, Morrissey never contrives to be liked - which is very old fashioned as validation is everything in these shallow times.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Moz is not hateful and does not judge people by their race, but to the left a "racist" is anybody who goes off script and is honest about certain truths.

A black person can announce that they are proud of their skin colour and that black is beautiful, but if a white person states these things then that person is branded as a "racist".

The left makes these silly rules and Moz refused to march in line. He broke the rules that your group espouses.

It's no use tying yourself in knots in an attempt to redeem his name, he simply holds views that your group does not agree with.

Moz's cardinal crime is refusing to celebrate England's transition from a great country to a strange amalgamation of Nigeria/Pakistan where only the tribal laws of the jungle apply.

You're a liar trying to appropriate his name for your own politics.

As pointed out to you on another thread - Moz's heart sank at the idea that he wouldn't want a black neighbour.

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& he's not against immigration:

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All he's ever worried about is cultures becoming generic & the state ignoring crimes for political reasons.

That's nothing like your twisted & disgusting hatred.
 

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
You're a liar trying to appropriate his name for your own politics.

As pointed out to you on another thread - Moz's heart sank at the idea that he wouldn't want a black neighbour.

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& he's not against immigration:

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All he's ever worried about is cultures becoming generic & the state ignoring crimes for political reasons.

That's nothing like your twisted & disgusting hatred.
Just like most people who have no understanding of working class concerns about feeling their country is becoming unrecognisable, you bring everything down to the individual and personal. You could be best friends with your black neighbour and still not want your neighbourhood wholly cleansed of white people and turned into something resembling a shanty area of Lagos, Nigeria with the same level of squalour and crime.

It is not about individual people, it is about demographics, values and culture on a large scale. The third world is pouring in every day, and with high birth rates, they will soon become the dominant group over white English people. To fit in, we will have to adopt their culture. That won't happen, we will simply move away (like we always do) and England will no longer be England.

Moz knows this and has expressed it many times, including when he stated that Diversity does not work - "if you mix all cultures you end up with no culture".

If you break these rules then the woke of Labour and Tory (let's face it, both are as woke as one another) will brand you with their beloved R label. Moz isn't bothered. He's explained himself enough times and then gone on to continue commenting on the subject - and will again in the future as England loses its last remaining fragments of identity.
 
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Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Morrissey has never been liked by everyone. The Smiths were a strictly acquired taste. Most people either adored them or absolutely hated them. And when I say them I mainly mean Morrissey. He has always inflamed sensibilities with his comments. The only difference is that in recent years people have generally become more intolerant about opinions that run contrary to what the media officially endorses, and we now have a strange thing called social media in which people can vent off their dislikes after a hard day. Also, Morrissey never contrives to be liked - which is very old fashioned as validation is everything in these shallow times.

Morrissey liking the gay community:

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You insulting the gay community & falsely claiming that they commit more murders. You pretend he agrees with you, when you hate a part of his sexuality.

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Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Just like most people who have no understanding of working class concerns about feeling their country is becoming unrecognisable, you bring everything down to the individual and personal. You could be best friends with your black neighbour and still not want your neighbourhood cleansed of white people and turned into something resembling a shanty area of Lagos, Nigeria with the same level of squalour and crime.

It is not about individual people, it is about demographics, values and culture. The third world is pouring in every day, and with high birth rates, they will become the dominant group over white English people. To fit in, we will have to adopt their culture. That won't happen, we will simply move away (like we always do) and England will no longer be England.

Moz knows this and has expressed it many times, including when he stated that Diversity does not work - "if you mix all cultures you end up with no culture".

You're lying - you're distorting - you're promoting your own neo-Nazi agenda.

He's not saying he'd just be friends - he's rejecting your ideology.

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& he supported BLM.

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