Morrissey and others: How Ireland's children are at the heart of English culture

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From Morrissey to Tony Blair: How Ireland's children are at the heart of English culture
By Ian Herbert
Published: 21 April 2007

Noel Gallagher might be a Mancunian with football blood coursing through his veins but when Oasis were asked to record the "Three Lions" English football anthem seven years ago, he was unequivocal. "When push comes to shove, I'm in the Ireland end," he said. "If I'd done the England song and gone on at Wembley my uncles would have killed me."

Gallagher is not the only "Englishman" to feel more of the spiritual pull towards Ireland. When Morrissey returned to perform in his beloved Manchester a few years back he declared himself "nine parts Crumlin and nine parts Old Trafford" before launching into his hit, "Irish Blood, English Heart", while Johnny Rotten named his autobiography, No Blacks, No Irish, No Dogs - a reference to the signs which were once common at English boarding houses where labourers might stay.

These affinities and those of many others - from Coleen McLoughlin to Judy Finnegan, Kate Bush to Kevin Keegan - have persuaded the Irish economist and writer David McWilliams to analyse their impact. McWilliams is well known in Ireland for his best-selling book, The Pope's Children, which analysed the new generation of Irish who were born after the 1979 papal visit and grew up with the Celtic Tiger (the period of rapid 1990s economic growth that transformed Ireland from one of Europe's poorer countries into one of its wealthiest).

His new analysis is a British version of that book, which looks at the extraordinary and disproportionate impact that second and third-generation Irish - "Hi-Brits" or "Hiberno-Brits" as he calls them - have had on English popular culture. The conclusions are persuasive. "When you look at English popular culture - not high culture - comedy, music, that sort of stuff, the Irish impact really is phenomenal," McWilliams said. "The effect second and third-generation Irish have had on English popular culture has been extraordinary."

That those of Irish parentage should be influential in England is not entirely surprising, based on the fact that 500,000 Irish migrated in the 1950s in search of the greater wealth they thought England offered. "Although these people are Brits, they are not true Brits," said McWilliams, who believes that the sense of "being foreign, though white" - and during the IRA bombing campaign being persona non grata - might have fuelled their creativity.

His search for the "Hi-Brits" has taken him to the Croxteth district of Liverpool, where the Rooney family lives, and an evening with the footballer's grandmother, Patricia Fitzsimmons, told him more than he expected about the England centre-forward's dual loyalties. "His biography has revealed an awareness of his Irish roots but he has said Coleen has been far more interested in the issue, heading back to Ireland to look for them."

John Lennon's Irishness is also examined. Lennon's own biographer, Jon Wiener, concluded that Lennon "thought of himself as Irish" and McWilliams points to the 1974 Walls and Bridges album, in which Lennon included a booklet containing a history of the Lennon name (essentially, an anglicised form of "O Leannain", which historically has been common in the counties of Fermanagh and Galway.)

One book on the subject concluded that: "No person of the name Lennon has distinguished himself in the political, military or cultural life of Ireland (or England for that matter)", under which Lennon wrote: "Oh yeh? John Lennon!"

The more improbable "Hi-Brits" include David Bowie, who has never demonstrated pride in the fact that his Irish mother was one Mary Margaret Burns; Dusty Springfield - who was christened Mary Isobel Catherine Bernadette O'Brien; Dec (Ant's partner) christened Declan Joseph Oliver Donnelly), whose parents ran the Tyneside Irish Club. And various English football captains.

"Kevin Keegan, Tony Adams, Stev MacMahon and Martin Keown, who was briefly captain, are all Irish," said McWilliams.

But the writer - whose book on the subject, The Generation Game, is published by MacMillan on 18 May, is not just describing Britain's debt to Ireland.

"We have to remember that if many of them had grown up in what was then culturally conservative Ireland, the cultural output might not have been the same," he said.

He added: "England, with its tolerance and multiculturalism gave them the platform.

"It has helped that Irishness has now become something romantic, which people want to know about."

Irish blood, English heart

Morrissey

The Smiths singer's Irish Catholic parents emigrated from County Kildare to Manchester in the Fifties and he attended an RC grammar school.

Noel Gallagher

Deeply Irish. Has appeared on the cover of magazines wearing a Claddagh ring and once professed his wish to record a song for the Republic of Ireland football team

Steve Coogan

Born to devout Irish Catholic parents, his Irishness has always been important to him.

Tony Blair

His mother was a Catholic from Donegal who moved to Glasgow after her father died. Blair spent "virtually every childhood summer holiday" in Donegal. It was there that "I learned to swim, there that my father took me to my first pub."
 
County Kildare? Morrissey's parents lived in Crumlin in Dublin City before emigrating. Johnny's Marr's (nee Maher) parents emigrated from County Kildare.
 
The only thing is Morrissey did not go to grammar school. That's a fundamental part of his background that he was dumped in a secondary modern like so many other kids and told he was a failure.
 
Morrissey's parents settled in an 'unIrish' part of Manchester, wonder if that contributed to his otherness? Having Irish parents in England at that time would not be easy, more so if he/they didn't have a social network.

McWilliams is a soundbite writer though, comes up with catchy words and ides then pads them out to form a book.
 
The comment re: 9 parts Crumlin, 9 parts Old Trafford is also incorrect. He actually said 10 parts Crumlin, 10 parts Old Trafford on the Who Put The M in Manchester DVD.
 
although there are a few errors in the post, it still is extremely interesting to realize the cultural relevance of a migrating population. I had always thought the people mentioned were extremely proud to be English from a cultural stand-point. I always new from a political angle, nobody was really proud of their countries governing-body, but their culture, definitely. We are seeing that in the US as all of you I am sure are aware of, its a really big issue pertaining to immigrants. I think its pretty typical to want to explore your roots as an adult, so its not too surprising that Morrissey, Wayne Rooney, and the others are in that "mode" so-to-speak. It was misleading to get infatuated by someone like Morrissey, and wanting to know the reasoning behind every lyric, gesture and belief, but now to find out we all may have been completely wrong. Maybe he just started on the You Are the Quarry album. Anyhow, its amazing to see the change of persona from one album to the next. Watch a video from early 1990's, and watch the Jimmy Kimmel Performance. 2 different people, 2 different types of tempo's, 2 different worlds. I think you see it in the audience as well. Not much stage invasions these days. Thanks for the post. Probably one of the best posts in a long time.
 
ok Moss Side & Hulme was the trad' Irish home of Manchester but you need to remember that immigrants go in search of work & Stretford is dock side (lot's of industry over there) of Manchester so you can't blame Mozzers dad for moving the family over to that side. So if that made the Morrissey's lad more of an outcast then that worked in all our favour, so well done Mr & Mrs M.

love

Grim
 
ok Moss Side & Hulme was the trad' Irish home of Manchester but you need to remember that immigrants go in search of work & Stretford is dock side (lot's of industry over there) of Manchester so you can't blame Mozzers dad for moving the family over to that side. So if that made the Morrissey's lad more of an outcast then that worked in all our favour, so well done Mr & Mrs M.

love

Grim


By the time I got to Manc most had left, not even Levenshulme is that Irish now ...but I'm straying into topics I promised myself I won't discuss...
 
ok Moss Side & Hulme was the trad' Irish home of Manchester but you need to remember that immigrants go in search of work & Stretford is dock side (lot's of industry over there) of Manchester so you can't blame Mozzers dad for moving the family over to that side. So if that made the Morrissey's lad more of an outcast then that worked in all our favour, so well done Mr & Mrs M.

love

Grim

I always thought they moved because their original house got bulldozed.
 
Correct, they moved twice as both houses / streets were pulled down. Even so, Old Trafford (that hell whole!) and Stretford and nearby Whalley range / Chorlton were Irish areas, a fair few Catholic churches, primary schools and St Marys Comp in the area is evidence of that.

I went to a wedding at the big Catholic church on Kings Road (is there such a thing as a small Catholic church?) in 1986. (My second time in a catholic church and it didn't change my opinion on it!) Most of us from the brides side were all Blues, the grooms side from out of town. The priest opened by saying 'to those who have travelled, welcome to Old Trafford, home of Manchester United'. he looked around expecting to be greeted by smiling faces, but soon moved on with the service when all he could see was about 20 lads all scowling at him with gritted teeth......:D

Jukebox Jury
 
If any of these people are actually Irish then the following are Scottish...

Stewart Copeland
Christopher Walken
Joan Baez
Donald Trump
David Duchovny
Jay Leno
Oscar Hammerstein
Ethel Merman
Juilanne Moore
Brian Molko

They all had Scottish parents.
 
Correct, they moved twice as both houses / streets were pulled down. Even so, Old Trafford (that hell whole!) and Stretford and nearby Whalley range / Chorlton were Irish areas, a fair few Catholic churches, primary schools and St Marys Comp in the area is evidence of that.

I went to a wedding at the big Catholic church on Kings Road (is there such a thing as a small Catholic church?) in 1986. (My second time in a catholic church and it didn't change my opinion on it!) Most of us from the brides side were all Blues, the grooms side from out of town. The priest opened by saying 'to those who have travelled, welcome to Old Trafford, home of Manchester United'. he looked around expecting to be greeted by smiling faces, but soon moved on with the service when all he could see was about 20 lads all scowling at him with gritted teeth......:D

Jukebox Jury

If they moved for those reasons then they might not have had much choice in where they lived. In those days the council would just rehouse you and I don't think you had much say unless you wanted to be homeless.
 
If any of these people are actually Irish then the following are Scottish...

Stewart Copeland
Christopher Walken
Joan Baez
Donald Trump
David Duchovny
Jay Leno
Oscar Hammerstein
Ethel Merman
Juilanne Moore
Brian Molko

They all had Scottish parents.

And dont forget Rod Stewart :D

Jukebox Jury
 
If any of these people are actually Irish then the following are Scottish...

Stewart Copeland
Christopher Walken
Joan Baez
Donald Trump
David Duchovny
Jay Leno
Oscar Hammerstein
Ethel Merman
Juilanne Moore
Brian Molko

They all had Scottish parents.
Nowhere does it say in the article that the people concerned are Irish.
McWilliams is only trying to plug his book, anyway.
 
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