nightandday
New Member
My sources for what?
Morrissey and Elvis
- Thread starter Lost
- Start date
SouthpawGlamour
Slum Mum Peace Corps
Talking about cohesive arguments, here is an example of someone NOT making a cohesive argument:
^^^ Now, this was supposed to be an answer to this post of mine:
I don't see what connection, if any, exists between his answer and the point I was making?What was he trying to say? That it doesn't take guts to speak out one's mind in public? That Morrissey only does it because he's "not very well informed"? And by implication, Elvis was, so he wisely kept his mouth shut? So, if you're "well informed" and "connnected to reality", you won't say anything about any subject? Is that it?
OK, now, let's go further...
Several questions are unavoidable:
1) How can anyone be 'great on radio' if they supposedly never make a cohesive argument?!
2) Is this all about the way Morrissey looks into the camera when he's on TV, or about his debating skills, or about his how well informed he is? What is it about?
3) Does SouthpawGlamour have any point in this debate, or is he just arguing for the sake of it?
Most celebrities mouth off all the time, proving that it does not take 'guts' to express an opinion. Morrissey's opinions are perfectly mainstream and left-wing.
Yes, Elvis was wise to keep quiet.
Moz's inability to cope with TV cameras casts serious doubt on his ability to publicly debate anything.
'1) How can anyone be 'great on radio' if they supposedly never make a cohesive argument?! '
On the radio Moz has been charming and witty and thus great.
I would appreciate it if you would try to be less emotional because that leads to your insults.
CAN YOU PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF A COHESIVE ARGUMENT OR GOOD TV INTERVIEW.
There are a few good TV interviews, it shouldnt be that hard. But how do you explain the rest.
SouthpawGlamour
Slum Mum Peace Corps
Your belief that I am wrong about this.
SouthpawGlamour
Slum Mum Peace Corps
btw How old are you and how long have you been a fan? have you been to gigs? have you seen many interviews?
nightandday
New Member
How can they be both mainstream and left-wing? And what exactly is 'mainstream' about his views?
Why exactly was that wise?
If you mean that it was wise because it guarantees more mainstream acceptance, then I agree.
No, it might only cast doubts on his ability to be elected for a public office, if he was running for one.
SouthpawGlamour
Slum Mum Peace Corps
How can they be both mainstream and left-wing? And what exactly is 'mainstream' about his views?
Why exactly was that wise?
If you mean that it was wise because it guarantees more mainstream acceptance, then I agree.
No, it might only cast doubts on his ability to be elected for a public office, if he was running for one.
The main things Moz makes a noise about are animal rights and anti-war/bush. These are mainstream views especially amongst celebs.
Moz is a very succesful mainstream artist.
It is wise to use your art, if thats where your skills are.
I will ask you politely to stop using 'rolls eyes' and insults in general.
The mainstream is LEFT WING.
nightandday
New Member
1) I don't see how my age is any of your business. Besides, judging by some of your previous discussions with some other posters, you are only interested in people's age if you think you can use it to insult them. I don't know if you would find me too old or too young, but I'm sure you'd find something bitchy to say either way. Not that I care, but tell me one reason why I should indulge you?
2) yes, I've been to one gig, when I finally had the chance to see him, in July last year, when he came to Serbia for the first time ever. (I could have maybe gone to the Zagreb gig the previous day. I wish I had the chance to go to 70 gigs, but that's practically impossible, see, just like the majority of people I know, I never travelled much, you need money and to get a visa, and that can be too complicated, I'm afraid. I would very gladly swapped places with you so I could go to so many gigs.
3) You want me to count them or to list them?!
I've seen every interview that I could find on video - OK, let's see if I can make a list - the Edith Bowman one (great), the recent Culture Show, Jonathan Ross, Jools Holland 1995 and 2004, Music Box 1987, Margi Clarke, Spanish TV 1985, Earsay 1984 (the complete version circling on the Internet - my second-favourite interview), Tony Wilson 1985 Granada interview, Old Grey Whistle Test with The Smiths discussing Meat Is Murder, plus the 1987 promo video for Strangeways (my favourite), Les Enfants du Rock from French TV 1985 (excellent), Les Inrockuptibles 2006 (a very good one), MTV Cutting Edge (a very weird one), The Tube 1984 where he's talking about the debut, CNN 2004, Dave Fanning 2002 (another good one), the interview he gave at the V festival in Chelmsford in 2006 (he looked great and very relaxed in that one), the one from Norwegian TV from a couple of years ago, plus the 1987 Southbank Show documentary, the IOBM documentary, his part in the BBC show about punk and his parts from teh documentary on NY Dolls, and a few other old TV appearances that can't be classified as classic interviews (Moz and Marr at school, Charlie's Bus, Moz on Whistle test walking though Manchester and visiting his former school, etc.). I've probably forgotten to mention some...uh, listing them all is exhausting. And if you're interested, I know many Morrissey fans, in 'real life' as well as online, and I only remember some people saying that he looked a bit nervous in the Jonathan Ross interview...that's all.
Is there anything else you want to know? My height, hair colour, show size, the last book I read, what I have just had for breakfast...?
nightandday
New Member
SouthpawGlamour
Slum Mum Peace Corps
Hmmmm...thats a shame, very childish. End of conversation.
nightandday
New Member
Finally. I wonder why you couldn't do that 2 pages ago.
Lesley-Anne
OTO Member
1) I don't see how my age is any of your business. Besides, judging by some of your previous discussions with some other posters, you are only interested in people's age if you think you can use it to insult them. I don't know if you would find me too old or too young, but I'm sure you'd find something bitchy to say either way. Not that I care, but tell me one reason why I should indulge you?
2) yes, I've been to one gig, when I finally had the chance to see him, in July last year, when he came to Serbia for the first time ever. (I could have maybe gone to the Zagreb gig the previous day. I wish I had the chance to go to 70 gigs, but that's practically impossible, see, just like the majority of people I know, I never travelled much, you need money and to get a visa, and that can be too complicated, I'm afraid. I would very gladly swapped places with you so I could go to so many gigs.
3) You want me to count them or to list them?!
And if you're interested, I know many Morrissey fans, in 'real life' as well as online, and I only remember some people saying that he looked a bit nervous in the Jonathan Ross interview...that's all.
Is there anything else you want to know? My height, hair colour, show size, the last book I read, what I have just had for breakfast...?
Your spit-fire honesty will get you everywhere. (email me with what u had 4 breakfast.)
drdannyace
Junior Member
<ahem>
getting back on track, the elvis influence on morrissey
is undeniably huge ... he wouldnt look the way he does
without him for a start - that goes without saying ...
hes the indie elvis (or perhaps even the indie bowie/elvis)
getting back on track, the elvis influence on morrissey
is undeniably huge ... he wouldnt look the way he does
without him for a start - that goes without saying ...
hes the indie elvis (or perhaps even the indie bowie/elvis)
Lost
New Member
OMG...what DID I start here??:
If i could just add my two penny's worth...I've never seen morrissey 'die' in an interview.
I've seen him look bored....i've seen him be irritated by inane questioning by inept jounalists...i've seen him be polite when he's so obviously thinking "oh you complete moron"...but i've never seen him 'die'.
If i could just add my two penny's worth...I've never seen morrissey 'die' in an interview.
I've seen him look bored....i've seen him be irritated by inane questioning by inept jounalists...i've seen him be polite when he's so obviously thinking "oh you complete moron"...but i've never seen him 'die'.
Still Tired
as it were...
I largely agree with those comments, not to be critical of Morrissey, it is half his charm the way he passionately voices his opinions so freely after all. But I do cringe at that bit where he lifts Churchill’s bust in the documentary, I admire the sentiment but not his actual words, I think in a debate a lot of his statements could easily be ripped apart. Of course he’s intelligent but I don’t think he tends to get pushed to justify his thoughts, he states them, they get printed, everyone gasps or whatever and it all fits with his image. I always get the impression he sees a lot of things purely in black and white- something which I find impossible which is why it fascinates me how he can come to such clear conclusions and stick to them rigidly.
I do think his nerves can get in the way of him articulating exactly in the way he might like to also, maybe other people wouldn’t agree but that’s been my interpretation of his body language etc in interviews.
I don’t think he’s disconnected from reality though, I’m pretty sure he’d be the same person whether he’d become famous or not, he just might be getting a lot more direct confrontations for his comments in the real world!
Still Tired
as it were...
That's very true, we're all human after all. I guess I've been in quite a few environments where people would debate you saying the earth was round etc, and having every comment pulled to pieces. It certainly makes you question your opinions and consider your conclusions, but I don't think that happens to Morrissey much. Well, not in public at least.
Danny
Senior Member
Still Tired
as it were...
No, Morrissey never gets scrutinised at all does he? Definitely not in public
I mean in a face-to-face confrontation. After the event, sure, everyone wades in, but he's not called upon to back up his arguements and doesn't have to reply. Which is fine of course, it's the same with any other public figure.
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