If you were Johnny Marr, what would you say to Morrissey?

Mozmar

Well-Known Member
It must be weird for them at the moment as it looks like 3 of them are living really near to each other due to Corona. I think I would be tempted to reach out to the others.
I'd love to think that at least one of them would want to do that (reaching out) but I guess it's like a game of chess & who makes the first move, if at all, and then worrying about how that reaching out is going to be received. Pride, losing face, being the first to show your hand, or stubbornness, or all of the above, will get in the way, sadly.
 

Peppermint

Well-Known Member
Each to their own, but I don't think it's quite that simple. By many accounts Andy and Mike were the rhythm section only and even discounting songwriting, were nothing like equal members in the group. Morrissey and Johnny managed many aspects of the group, planned the tours, conducted promotional interviews etc. and while they were holding meetings with the record label, Andy and Mike were in another room watching TV.

I think it's clear from all of the evidence that they agreed to less than 25%, but Morrissey and Johnny couldn't prove that 10% was agreed on. As the burden of proof was on them, they lost the case.

I understand why Mike went to court, but I can equally understand why Morrissey and Johnny have never spoken to him since.
I've never actually seen any evidence that shows conclusively they agreed to less than 25% - and presumably if there had been the judged would have ruled differently - although I understand the arguments as to why they should have got less. I think for me, the way it was apparently done was as bad as the uneven money itself - covertly, sneakily, when the band was already well-established as a unit, a decision made behind closed doors with accountants which Morrissey then dumped on Johnny to communicate with the others. Everything I've read about it smacks of 'I've decided I'm having more than you, but I don't want to tell you.' But of course, none of us were there so all we can do is speculate. As you say, Flibb, each to their own, and all that.
 
Cringey twat, stfu, this whole thread is cringe, try coming outside yourself for a sec, observe your own behaviour, see how you spend your days, in this shit corner of the internet, fantasising about what you would like Johnny Marr to say to Morrissey
Over 30 and you use the word cringe, you're probably one of those guys that takes selfies with your mouth wide open
 

Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting
I'd love to think that at least one of them would want to do that (reaching out) but I guess it's like a game of chess & who makes the first move, if at all, and then worrying about how that reaching out is going to be received. Pride, losing face, being the first to show your hand, or stubbornness, or all of the above, will get in the way, sadly.

I agree, you would hope the circumstances we all find ourselves in would make them think life's too short.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Actually - screw a reunion. It would just be nice if the relationship wasn't so disfunctional that The Smiths could actually operate as a 'legacy' band in the way that 90% of other major split bands do. ie: we'd get a steady slew of archival releases (the anniversary edition of The Queen is Dead appears to be a one-off, and was a huge struggle to get authorised according to Johnny), there'd be an official website where fans could buy official T-shirts and merch etc. All parties involved would make some cash, but even this appears to be beyond them.
 

Mozmar

Well-Known Member
I agree, you would hope the circumstances we all find ourselves in would make them think life's too short.
When you're outside the tent it's easy to apply that logic; when you're inside, I doubt that crosses any of their minds, not that they'd readily admit to anyway. It's the history that'll prevent it happening, together with the reasons I mentioned. None of them will want to buckle first or show weakness.
Great shame, yet we live in hope. However, that said, it would just need one of them to make a move, wouldn't it?
 

Flibberty

Well-Known Member
I've never actually seen any evidence that shows conclusively they agreed to less than 25% - and presumably if there had been the judged would have ruled differently - although I understand the arguments as to why they should have got less. I think for me, the way it was apparently done was as bad as the uneven money itself - covertly, sneakily, when the band was already well-established as a unit, a decision made behind closed doors with accountants which Morrissey then dumped on Johnny to communicate with the others. Everything I've read about it smacks of 'I've decided I'm having more than you, but I don't want to tell you.' But of course, none of us were there so all we can do is speculate. As you say, Flibb, each to their own, and all that.

Not quite. Morrissey and Johnny had to prove that it was specifically 10% that had been agreed and the burden of proof was on them. Because the judge decided there wasn't enough evidence that it was 10%, things reverted back to equal partners.

I agree that Morrissey doesn't come out of it well and he should have simply asked Joe Moss to deal with the situation, but Mike has acknowledged that less money was agreed to and said that he probably would have said yes to 10% at the time. His argument was that 10% wasn't specified and that he assumed he was getting paid more throughout his time in the group. I'm not sure that's entirely plausible, but without a written contract it was difficult to disprove.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Moz has crossed over into wingnut territory. If I were Johnny I would avoid him at all cost, which I'm glad to say is what appears to be happening.
 

Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting
Story here from 2.20. Revisting it, it doesn't sound like she was sacked, but he did threaten the record company (allegedly). Very entertaining series of interviews.


I love this video about Tony with New Orders Your Silent Face playing in the background. Mentions Morrissey as well!

 
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Oh my

Enough! or Too much
"Who is your hairdresser? I know a lot of things happened, but my hair is a serious mess... help me".
 
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Anonymous

Guest
It makes me wonder if some of the songs on The Messenger were written with a reunion in mind.
Although the finished album didn't come out until 2013, Any Rourke mentions in that radio interview how Johnny played him some demos of the songs back in 2011 - so my suspicion is that pub meeting with Moz back in late 2008 could well have been the impetus that got Johnny started kicking some musical ideas around, at least initially with a Smiths reunion in mind. Weird to think that in some alternate universe, instead of 'World Peace is None of Your Business', we might have got Morrissey singing over 'The Messenger' backing tracks as a new Smiths album instead. Regardless, even in that alternate world, by now they'd have probably split up again anyway!
 
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