An REM thread for r.e.m. stuff


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Earlier there was some talk about the live tracks on the "Murmur IRS Years" re issue (1992) and their source with the possibility being Boston July 13, 1983.

Settle in for a LONG one here....

The liner notes from "Murmur IRS Years" re issue don't list a source for "9-9" or "Gardening At Night", but it does say BOTH are b-sides of the "Rockville UK 12in".
The liner notes DO list a source for "Catapult" as Seattle June 27, 1984, AND says it was the b-side of the "Rockville US 7in".

I own a physical copy of "Return of the Rickenbackers" on vinyl (the Boston July 13, 1983 show). However, those 3 songs are not on it....:rolleyes:

On my HARD DRIVE I have a version of the Boston '83 show with 24 tracks that says it's source was the WBCN FM broadcast straight to DAT by someone named Matt Field and then was "transferred and mastered" by Bill Koucky on Mar 10, 2009.
So I did a comparison listen to these vs the live tracks from "Murmur IRS Years" re issue...
"9-9" and "Gardening At Night" is DEFINITELY the same recording (some Michael ad-libs in various places are identical) so I would FOR SURE say these are Boston July 13, 1983.

"Catapult" on "Murmurs IRS Years" re issue is DEFINITELY NOT Boston 1983. (Once again due to Michael ad lib)

On my HARD DRIVE I have a Seattle June 27, 1984 recording that says it's a "Rapid Eye Movement Release: Nov '04" with front and back artwork and 2 paragraphs of show notes that say "the show was recorded by the band for possible live album release but was shelved". HOWEVER, according to the R.E.M. TIMELINE ( this recording I have is missing "Driver 8" and "Catapult" (2nd & 3rd song played).... So no help there....
The R.E.M. TIMELINE notes also say "recorded for NBC's The Source radio show, this show is available on many bootlegs, including "Boston 1984" (sic), "Blue", "Pleasant Dreams", "Rock and Roll Stars" and "We're Blinking Just As Fast As We Can"."
We're getting really deep here, but I DO have a CASSETTE bootleg (yes, I still have about 75 R.E.M. bootlegs on cassette. Many are duplicates of things I now have electronically, but I can't make myself throw them away after spending hundreds of hours collecting/trading them) with the title "Rock and Roll Stars" that says it's Seattle, June 27, 1984, and the track listing DOES have "Catapult". BUT I took a listen to it (damn cassettes suck) and unfortunately it does NOT contain "Catapult"... It just goes from "Moral Kiosk" to "Hyena" just like the Rapid Eye Movement recording and there's a pretty obvious "cut" in crowd noise between the two, so I'm guessing "Driver 8" & "Catapult" were cut out for whatever reason on that bootleg. Which means Gary Nabors 1993 book is wrong on the track listing for "Rock and Roll Stars" as well, or maybe my cassette copy was from a different source and I just named it that...
Getting REALLY deep on this one now!
I have no other recordings to verify with.
Therefore I CANNOT CONFIRM if "Catapult" from "Murmur IRS Years" re issue is from Seattle 1984 or not... We have to believe IRS in the liner notes I guess? (More on that later...)
I also do not have a "Rockville 7in" vinyl to compare to.

Now, let's get SUPER deep/weird on this one...
As said above, the "Murmur IRS Years" liner notes claim that "9-9" & "Gardening At Night" are from the "Rockville UK 12in". I actually DO physically have that 12in on vinyl. Here's what's weird.... The sleeve of the 12" says "9-9" & "Gardening At Night" are from the El Dorado, Paris, France April 20th 1984!!! NOT from Boston 1983!!! Now to be fair, the "Murmur IRS Years" re issue liner notes never SAID those tracks were Boston. It just said they were from the "Rockville UK 12in". BUT as stated above, my ears, and Michael's ad libbing, proved that the "Murmur IRS Years" tracks are IDENTICAL to the Boston 1983 recording I have... So NOW the question is are the sleeve notes on the "Rockville UK 12in" wrong on where they were recorded? OR are the liner notes from "Murmur IRS Years" re issue wrong in saying they came from the "Rockville UK 12in"??

I took a listen to the "Rockville UK 12in" tracks and they are DEFINITELY NOT the same as the tracks on the "Murmur IRS Years" re issue.
So I suppose why should we believe what they say about the live version of "Catapult" either??!!

Furthermore, I'm happy to say that the "9-9" & "Gardening At Night" on the "Rockville UK 12in" ARE indeed from Paris April 20, 1984 just as the sleeve states. I verified this by comparing them to two different recordings I have of that date. Someone in the audience and Peter keep saying "Dogs?", Michael says "NO!", Peter says "Dogs?" again and then Gardening At Night starts. Whew!
I DO have to discredit something else from Gary Nabors "Remnants" book though.
When discussing the "Rockville UK 12in" he says.... "This single is very popular among collectors, and would probably be even more so had it not been for the 1992 reissue of the two live tracks on the remastered Murmur CD (the IRS Years one)."
Gary Nabors of course was just going by the information given by IRS in the "Murmur IRS Years" re issue liner notes, and accepting it as true, but I've proven IRS was WRONG about where the tracks came from.
Bad information existed before the internet!! :LOL:

Let me know if any photos are needed to back up anything I said...
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