Alain Whyte: Billy Budd - Safe At Home Sessions (June 12, 2020)

Alain Whyte plays Billy Budd.

Not been a massive fan of all these acoustic versions but this one is great. Alain changes the words to 'now it's 16 years on'. Maybe this means the last time he played with Morrissey?

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Peppermint

Well-Known Member
Indeed.
What we're seeing is the 'public image' of AW...which, as we know, isn't necessarily the real or truthful version, although some will undoubtedly get fooled.
I would love to know the answer to this: ‘I know who is planning your downfall. It is not me.’
Two things occur to me.

1. Morrissey lies/embroiders/omits things to suit - we know this of old. Although this may also be true of Alain, we don't know. I hugely enjoyed Autobiography, but as a reliable record of the facts, it's pretty much useless. It has been notable - especially in more recent, internet-connected years - that Morrissey's accounts of events often diverge wildly from what actually happened.

2. There is something quite vulnerable about Alain - FWD said this same thing the other night on one of the threads. I have always suspected that the 'I know who's planning your downfall' business - if it's even true - is the sign of a man in the grip of a mental health crisis. Which would explain the hasty disappearance, and reluctance to discuss it, even years later. Morrissey does seem to allude to this by saying he was 'exhausted' and they were worried about him. With apologies to Alain if I'm barking up the wrong tree.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Indeed.
What we're seeing is the 'public image' of AW...which, as we know, isn't necessarily the real or truthful version, although some will undoubtedly get fooled.
I would love to know the answer to this: ‘I know who is planning your downfall. It is not me.’
This is all very sad, but I think you also need to be careful how much credence you give to Morrissey's account.
It's not as if he hasn't been know to bear a grudge and to twist the facts in order to justify himself.
And if he was considered "a devious, truculent and unreliable" chronicler of events even when under oath, just how likely is he to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in his own memoirs?
At the end of the day, the songs are what matter - and they are as much Alain's as Morrissey's. He may well boast about "having rescued Alain from the mad-death of his mind-crushing job at Camden Council"; but can you imagine how much poorer Morrissey's output between 1992-2009 would have been without those songs Alain co-wrote with him?
 

Mozmar

Well-Known Member
This is all very sad, but I think you also need to be careful how much credence you give to Morrissey's account.
It's not as if he hasn't been know to bear a grudge and to twist the facts in order to justify himself.
And if he was considered "a devious, truculent and unreliable" chronicler of events even when under oath, just how likely is he to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in his own memoirs?
At the end of the day, the songs are what matter - and they are as much Alain's as Morrissey's. He may well boast about "having rescued Alain from the mad-death of his mind-crushing job at Camden Council"; but can you imagine how much poorer Morrissey's output between 1992-2009 would have been without those songs Alain co-wrote with him?
I'm not giving credence to anyone or anything. Like us all, obviously I wasn't there or privy to any of this so all we have to go on is what's available. No account can be verified as factual unless we were actually there at the time. The rest is pure speculation & our respective views will possibly be biased by which mast we might nail our colours to. At the end of the day this is historic stuff about people in the pop/music industry. I'm not about to lose any sleep about any of it.
 
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Mozmar

Well-Known Member
According to the descriptions of Morrissey, Alain grabbed the crown in the run-up to Quarry and this manoeuvre was his undoing. He then left Morrissey to save face and gain a foothold as a solo artist, which he is now trying to do again, with massive reference to his Morrissey years.
He comes across as a decent chap, but, being cynical, I think he's milking the Morrissey period, big time & trying to build his popularity. Seems to be working to some extent on here.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I'm not giving credence to anyone or anything. Like us all, obviously I wasn't there or privy to any of this so all we have to go on is what's available. No account can be verified as factual unless we were actually there at the time. The rest is pure speculation & possibly biased by which mast we might nail our colours to. At the end of the day this is historic stuff about people in the pop/music industry. I'm not about to lose any sleep about any of it.
Well, you did say that "some will undoubtedly get fooled" by "the 'public image' of AW".
 

Phranc & Open

Well-Known Member
Difficult but very interesting subject. At the moment, it seems Alain is waving a big sign with "Hi Moz, it's me, send mea fax, if you'd like to". I dont no how tight the tape between Moz and Tobias is, but between 2005-2009 it was possible, that 3 guitarists played and composed for him too.
 

Mozmar

Well-Known Member
Difficult but very interesting subject. At the moment, it seems Alain is waving a big sign with "Hi Moz, it's me, send mea fax, if you'd like to". I dont no how tight the tape between Moz and Tobias is, but between 2005-2009 it was possible, that 3 guitarists played and composed for him too.
If he's hurt Moz in the past (& referencing those quotes from Autobiography) I think it's unlikely that a reunion will happen, however strongly AW might be signalling.

Moz bears more grudges than lonely high court judges, afterall.
 

Verso

Well-Known Member
He comes across as a decent chap, but, being cynical, I think he's milking the Morrissey period, big time & trying to build his popularity. Seems to be working to some extent on here.
There's nothing to milk. Alain is never going to have a successful solo career. He is nostalgic for his glory years and is rightfully acknowledging that he was responsible for almost all of Morrissey's best work. There's nothing be cynical about.
 
V

Vegan Cro Spirit 444

Guest
?
AlainT wanted his mug on Moz covers:crazy:
after Moz rescued him from Camden, France;)
wanted to make another Moz book about Moz as if there werent enough twats writing Moz?

now he is broke and wants to return,possibly bringing with him that ham fisted salad punk rock drummer that the recently departed FC loved so much. maybe bring in FC himself to play the cheapo dinky keyboard:rolleyes:
better chance of a comet blowing us up or Bernie joining the Tories FFS:crazy:
 

Mozmar

Well-Known Member
There's nothing to milk. Alain is never going to have a successful solo career. He is nostalgic for his glory years and is rightfully acknowledging that he was responsible for almost all of Morrissey's best work. There's nothing be cynical about.
Has a new EP coming out doesn't he? I'm sure he's mentioned it. Doing the old Moz stuff (which I love btw) raises his profile as we can witness on here. I like him but I'll maintain my cynical view.
 

Verso

Well-Known Member
Has a new EP coming out doesn't he? I'm sure he's mentioned it. Doing the old Moz stuff (which I love btw) raises his profile as we can witness on here. I like him but I'll maintain my cynical view.
Do you honestly think that making these YouTube videos is going to yield a bump in sales for his EP? He is a niche within a niche, preaching only to the choir of his very limited fanbase online. You are grossly overestimating things.
 

Phranc & Open

Well-Known Member
He will unleash a big news for the fans of the old stuff soon. I think, that's something nice to look forward too. He has some really good tunes made available in the last years. "Baby, I'm strange" by The Motivators was a great one, f.e.
 

Mozmar

Well-Known Member
Do you honestly think that making these YouTube videos is going to yield a bump in sales for his EP? He is a niche within a niche, preaching only to the choir of his very limited fanbase online. You are grossly overestimating things.
You make a fair point, but he's self promoting for a reason (nostalgic out reaching, profile raising, EP related, or whatever) & while it won't impact my day to day existence, the background story alluded to in Autobiography (the truth of which we'll never know) I do find intriguing.
 
V

Vegan Cro Spirit .777

Guest
the AlainT 'BIG IMPORTANT EARTH SHATTERING NEWS":
a Moz book
a Moz album
a Moz movie starring our hero AlainT as Moz and that dork Haslaam playing Boz who get whacked in the ending. ?
o_O
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
A quick scan suggests it ended on a sour note (no pun actually intended) with Alain.
A couple of quotes:

Of Kill Uncle Chas confirms: ‘You’ve lost it, but you’ll re-find it.’ I seem to be eternally cased in by friends who give me bad news because they care. Yet Chas introduces me to Boz Boorer, a known face on the British rockabilly scene, and Boz collects guitarist Alain Whyte, who works for Camden Council, Spencer Cobrin, who has a drum kit somewhere and who helps his father out in the family antique shop, and Gary Day, who plays bass and lives with his father in Neasden. They all know each other and they manage a certain harmony together, although Alain nurses an aversion to Boz that creates frequent difficulties. Generally, it works, and all four are essential to me after the session-musician embalming fluid of Kill Uncle.

Life blurs, like newspaper print held too close to the eye. Jesse Tobias, our Mexican panther-like style-baron, is the slick and sleek key to our new presentation. The marriage is perfect. Departed guitarist Alain had curdled somewhat prior to You Are the Quarry when a legal letter arrived demanding that Alain’s face appear on the cover artwork of the new – and every future – Morrissey album. Well, no. Life doesn’t quite work like that, especially not in the land of logic. His lawyers also demanded that Alain be given the right to publish his own book detailing his life with Morrissey. It wasn’t for me to bestow or forbid such rights, but the request certainly made me nervous. I didn’t quite relish the thought of Alain with a notepad watching me as I slept.

As we begin the You Are the Quarry tour in 2004 we say goodbye to Alain, who shuts the door upon himself – taking himself off the road amid fears that he is suffering from exhaustion, which certainly seems to be true. Backstage at the final Alain show in Dublin, he takes me aside and whispers: ‘I know who is planning your downfall. It is not me.’ I stand back and I let chance stirrings take their lead, but as Alain departs we are contractually bound to find an immediate replacement, and we eventually settle with the steely and stylish Jesse Tobias. We had all felt great concern for Alain, but, always knowing too much, I await personal criticism for Alain’s departure – having had no part in it. Assuredly, criticism whistles through the poplar trees soon enough with accusatory emails from Alain, and my only surprise is that I’m surprised. By such gestures I now live, as if whatever you bestow has no value unless the flow is endless, and as soon as your life-giving generosity retires, you are human filth. That’s just the way it goes. Having rescued Alain from the mad-death of his mind-crushing job at Camden Council, he would now cross continents rather than say a hello to me.

2006 sweetens with the news that Ringleader of the Tormentors has entered the UK chart at number 1, which is my third number 1 in three different decades (and still Alain Whyte says nothing).
Interesting stuff. I haven't read Autobiography so didn't know Morrissey's explanation. It does sound pretty reasonable. The stuff about demanding the right to write a book is bizarre as it's obviously not needed, but it would make anyone feel nervous. It makes Morrissey sound extremely fair handed but of course we're only hearing one side of the story. Interesting that they've been in email contact in the last year with M even managing to say complimentary things about Alain's awful single, The Experiment. No easy task!
 

Phranc & Open

Well-Known Member
A financial question. Does his work for Morrissey 1991 - 2009 earns him his LA life? Sporadically, he has done some songwriting for others (Black Eyed Peas !) but nothing for the big screen.
 

NealCassidy

Well-Known Member
A financial question. Does his work for Morrissey 1991 - 2009 earns him his LA life? Sporadically, he has done some songwriting for others (Black Eyed Peas !) but nothing for the big screen.
Surely yes since he’s credited as songwriter
 

NealCassidy

Well-Known Member
What’s the HUgE news!!?
 

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